Martian Rock Found In Morocco

That explains it by tarzan353 · 2004-01-21 16:17 · Score: 2, Informative

I ask one question, could this rock not have come from the same source as the billions of rocks that litter the martian surface? I.E. somewhere other than Mars.

Two reasons for suspecting they originated on Mars:

Martian meteorites come in a range of ages - some as young as a billion years old. By comparison, most meteorites hang out around the 4.6 billion years old mark - the point when small planetary bodies were forming in the Solar System.

For rocks to be much younger than 4.6 billion they have to come from a body that was evolving - that was hot, partially molten and volcanically active. Such a body would have to be big - a planet. Mars is the most obvious candidate, it shows clear signs of tectonism until relatively recently - new rock was being formed on Mars within the last billion years.

The second reason for suspecting these are Martian rocks is so clever it borders on magical. Some meteorites have been analysed in the lab. They contain vesicles - tiny bubbles of gas trapped in the molten rock. When the rock cooled and froze, the gas was trapped.

When these bubbles are cracked open, the gas inside can be analysed. The ratios of the inert gases (gases such as neon, argon and krypton) precisely match the ratios in the Martian atmosphere measured by American and Soviet probes.

I've no idea if the Egyptian dog-killer has been analysed though.

Best wishes,

Mike.

Re:That explains it by bad_fx · 2004-01-21 16:32 · Score: 5, Informative

Uh...Nice cut and paste. Maybe you should think of something original next time.
Re:That explains it by mars_rover · 2004-01-21 16:33 · Score: 5, Funny

That's odd... the piece of Mars I have on my desk is composed of entirely different substances: Milk Solids (40%), cocoa, emulsifiers, caramel, glucose etc. Scientists believe that it came from the Mare Saccharum region on Mars...
Re:That explains it by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 16:49 · Score: 2, Interesting

Two reasons for suspecting they originated on Mars

It never ceases to amaze me that in the world of "science" that theory is most always talked of as proven fact. If the probability that object x doesn't exist is 80%, that object is talked about as if it doesn't exist conclusively, even though the possiblity that it exists is in the other 20%t. The age of the universe is a good example. Scientist y estimates to to being x Billion years old, and every textbook, news article, journal, documentary, etc states that the universe is x billion years old as if proven fact. The truth is that no-one currently knows exactly whether it's one billion or a billion billion years old.
Re: That explains it by Black+Parrot · 2004-01-21 17:17 · Score: 2, Interesting

> It never ceases to amaze me that in the world of "science" that theory is most always talked of as proven fact. If the probability that object x doesn't exist is 80%, that object is talked about as if it doesn't exist conclusively, even though the possiblity that it exists is in the other 20%t. The age of the universe is a good example. Scientist y estimates to to being x Billion years old, and every textbook, news article, journal, documentary, etc states that the universe is x billion years old as if proven fact. The truth is that no-one currently knows exactly whether it's one billion or a billion billion years old.

That's why scientists prefer convergent evidence over one individual's opinion.

BTW, AFAICT astronomers are now nearly unanimous on an age of 13.7 billion years. This is a fairly recent result.

--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Re:That explains it by MrFreshly · 2004-01-21 17:41 · Score: 2, Funny

3rd reason...Because it has "Made in Mars" stamped on the bottom.
Re:That explains it by Tablizer · 2004-01-21 19:50 · Score: 2, Interesting

you don't need to _land_ there to measure the composition of the atmosphere. pfff, that is so yesterday.

True, but atmospheric entry is such a bumpy, complex, and involved process that I am surprised one can get decent readings during such time. I suppose an orbiter could take the spectrum of the limb (edge) of the planet, but the surface would interfere it seems to me. It just seems far more reliable to get it at the surface. Then again, I ain't no space scientist.

--
Table-ized A.I.
Re:That explains it by instarx · 2004-01-21 22:20 · Score: 3, Insightful

What you are calling "science" is really science reporting. Science reporting summarizes the real science and leaves out the qualifiers and statistical information from the original published peer-reviewed work. Science reporting frequently offers broad and sweeping conclusions of hard fact from original work that only reports on evidence that such a conclusion may be true. Even science textbooks are basically summaries of the original research and omit the nuances. Science reporting is a hollow shell of real science.

To understand what the scientists are really saying you have to go read and understand the original articles.
Re:That explains it by Joey7F · 2004-01-22 05:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

Exactly! how else can you get easy karma (+4 in this case!) and really, how many slashdot posts are truly original?

It doesn't really hurt any as long as you change the phrasing and/or copy it from an ac

As I always say "don't sweat the small stuff!"

--Joey

So after sending Spirit millions of miles... by bc90021 · 2004-01-21 16:17 · Score: 5, Funny

...we find another Martian rock here on Earth. For those of you that don't think fate doesn't have a sense of irony, I think that this story proves it. ;)

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libertarianswag.com

Re:So after sending Spirit millions of miles... by stevesliva · 2004-01-21 16:20 · Score: 3, Interesting

Even more ironic-- it contains olivine. Spirit's found some of that.

--
Who do you get to be an expert to tell you something's not obvious? The least insightful person you can find? -J Roberts

Why go to Mars? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 16:17 · Score: 2, Funny

Obviously it's a waste to be spending so much on sending robots to Mars. Why not send the robots to Morocco instead? Talk about saving money on airfare!

Cool! by ZipR · 2004-01-21 16:18 · Score: 5, Funny

Instead of us having to go to Mars, Mars is coming to us!

Magmatism by deuist · 2004-01-21 16:20 · Score: 3, Funny

"Magmatism is the main process by which water moves from the core of planets to their surface."

I thought that magnetism was a process that involved two pieces of metal being attracted to each other. Oh, you said magmatism ...

water at the core? Ummm, no. by Ralph+Spoilsport · 2004-01-21 16:21 · Score: 3, Informative

The core of a planet is too hot and dense for water.

AFAIK, the parent is wrong.

RS

--
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.

Re:water at the core? Ummm, no. by adlai · 2004-01-21 16:31 · Score: 5, Interesting

Yeah, I saw the "magmatism is the main process by which water moves from the core of planets to their surface" thing and coughed quietly to myself *cough* *cough*.

Core differentiation generally happens REALLY early in planet's history, and it seems to me that it isn't precisely correct to say magmatism in this context, (which implies "volcanism" at least to me). Bouyancy and heat are what really moves water to the surface, since it is a) much less dense than rock (think about it) and b) not real stable at real high T.

In other words -- what moves water around is a whole mess of ugly chemistry and thermodynamics that I'll leave to my petrologist buddies to explain to me (dah? dah!) with odd pentagonal diagrams.
Re:water at the core? Ummm, no. by toxic666 · 2004-01-21 19:46 · Score: 3, Interesting

Oh, you have no idea how well you summed up the petrology of this meterorite:

"It is described as a peridotite, an extremely rare type of Mars rock consisting of the minerals olivine, pyroxene and plagioclase glass."

This beastie originated near the mantle, at great depth. And there is NO water down there. If the meteorite contains water, it may be from Mars, but it may also be contamination from earth.

I've seen zero evidence for either, and after NASA claimed they had proof of Mars life in a meteorite, I will accept no evidence until validated by and outside lab.

War of the Worlds by grungebox · 2004-01-21 16:21 · Score: 3, Funny

Maybe those rocks are the results of primitive Martian interplanetary weapons tests. After all, they have to make sure mere rocks can make it here before they send plasma-nuclear-hyper-transmogrifying-death bombs, right?

Oh geez, I better load up on duct tape if the fucking Martians are coming.

Re:War of the Worlds by afidel · 2004-01-21 16:42 · Score: 2, Funny

Nah, it's just the testing phase for a bigger version. They don't need plasma-nuclear-hyper-transmogrifying-death bombs if they can scale their rock thrower up to a big enough size because really large rocks moving at interplantary speeds is just as effective at killing as the much more expensive plasma-nuclear-hyper-transmogrifying-death bombs. See that's why the rock is magnetic, the mass driver has to use ferous materials =)

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It's only fair... by QSO_Wizard · 2004-01-21 16:22 · Score: 5, Funny

the Earth is littering Mars with spacecraft debris. Mars just wants a little payback.

More importantly... by paul248 · 2004-01-21 16:22 · Score: 4, Funny

Did they find Beagle 2 on it?

So? by toxic666 · 2004-01-21 16:27 · Score: 4, Insightful

We have rovers on Mars collecting data that has no chance of being contaminated by a meteorite impact, travel through space and terrestrial processes.

I'll take data from the horse's mouth.

Rock on, Rovers!

Re:So? by toxic666 · 2004-01-21 20:06 · Score: 2, Funny

What is a hell of a lot cheaper?

Flying Mars rocks back to earth? Flying an kewl earth lab, all its equipent and employees to Mars? Flying people to Mars to collect rocks and bring them back to earth?

PLEASE send me some of the 'shrooms you ate before posting that comment.
Re:So? by toxic666 · 2004-01-21 20:18 · Score: 2, Interesting

OK, I got a bit bitchy.

The point is, the specimen is contaminated and only limited samples are available. NASA held out the "Life on Mars" sample until its outrageous conclusions were forced into the public eye. They tried to prohibit peer review. Once a rare sample is set aside as untouchable, forget about validation.

We'll be getting important data from validated samples from the rovers and that data will be available to all for peer review.

Suspicious.... by Ironica · 2004-01-21 16:28 · Score: 4, Funny

From the article: The team that found it was led by experienced meteorite hunters Carine Bidaut and Bruno Fectay, who have now found six rocks from Mars - a record.

Interesting that they seem to know *just* where to find Martian rocks.

Quick! Get them! They're Martian spies!

--
Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?

Re:Suspicious.... by dublin · 2004-01-22 04:56 · Score: 2, Insightful

From the article: The team that found it was led by experienced meteorite hunters Carine Bidaut and Bruno Fectay, who have now found six rocks from Mars - a record.

Interesting that they seem to know *just* where to find Martian rocks.

It's also really interesting that the last big hoo-rah about finding "a rock from Mars" here on Earth coincided with Bush Sr's proposal for a mission to Mars. What's really amazing is that these discoveries are so strongly correlated to Congressional consideration of tens or hundreds of billions of dollars for Mars research! (Perhaps we should fund a $40 million NASA/CBO research study to determine if this correlation can be linked to any sort of causality? Hmmm?)

There is absolutely no real evidence that these rocks are from Mars, and in fact, NASA very quickly backed away from defending the Mars origin theory when pressed to provide scientific backup. There is absolutely no substantial reason to believe that ALH84001 came from Mars, other than that it sure seems to help get funding.

Of course, if we go to Mars, it should be without NASA - how we could think that a government agency with a worse operational safety and efficiency record than the Post Office should run a Mars mission is beyond me. I've worked at NASA, and belive me, the only real soultion is to bulldoze the entire organization and start over - even thenm you'd need to wait ten years before starting over to avoid the revolving door effect...

--
"The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last ./ post

I wonder if... by Jarwulf · 2004-01-21 16:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

Bacteria are particularly tough and anaeorobic species can surivive in the interior of rocks for an obscenely long amount of time without access to outside nutrients. Maybe sometime in the primordial past an impact could have sent one rock plummeting to mars. The planet is seeded...suprise...

Re:I wonder if... by mars_rover · 2004-01-21 16:38 · Score: 2, Funny

Bacteria are particularly tough and anaeorobic species can surivive in the interior of rocks for an obscenely long amount of time without access to outside nutrients. Sounds like the boffins Bill has locked up in Redmond coding Longhorn...

circumstances regarding how it got here by plasm4 · 2004-01-21 16:49 · Score: 4, Interesting

the distance from the earth to mars, at its closest is more than 55 million kilometers (33 million miles). the article states that about 20 such rocks have been found on earth so far. It seems that Mar at some point must have undergone some pretty serious bombardment from asteroids, and big ones too it seems, if the impacts caused martian rock to leave its gravitational field, and come all the way to earth. It seems like trying to throw a dart at an ant from 100 yards

Re:circumstances regarding how it got here by jb_davis · 2004-01-21 17:08 · Score: 2, Interesting

That would be difficult, but when you throw hundreds or even thousands of darts, some most likely will hit.

--
"Well, it took an hour to write, I thought it would take an hour to read."
Re:circumstances regarding how it got here by Galvatron · 2004-01-21 20:01 · Score: 2, Informative

Yes, all terrestrial planets in the solar system (excpet Venus, which appears to undergo periodic resurfacing, erasing old impact craters) show evidence of a period of extremely heavy bombardment in their early histories, about 3 billion years ago. This is why the lunar highlands are so much more heavily cratered than the mare (lava floodplains formed sometime after the heavy bombardment period). If you've got pictures of the moon handy, the "dark side" is primarily the heavily cratered highlands, while the side that faces us has more mare.

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"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Re:circumstances regarding how it got here by Paul+Cameron · 2004-01-21 21:46 · Score: 4, Informative
It seems like trying to throw a dart at an ant from 100 yards
Your analogy is flawed.
1. You're ignoring gravity, the rock hits Earth partly because the earth is altering it's trajectory
2. If the rock does not directly hit Earth, the two can swing around the sun and try again. The rock won't necessarily fly out of the solar system

What's next by moosesocks · 2004-01-21 17:09 · Score: 2, Insightful

What's next? Are we now going to find out that the rocks being analyzed by Spirit are actually from earth?

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-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose

Re:What's next by Tablizer · 2004-01-21 18:18 · Score: 4, Informative

What's next? Are we now going to find out that the rocks being analyzed by Spirit are actually from earth?

It is easier for Mars debri to transfer to Earth than the other way around because of the stronger gravity on Earth. I read somewhere that Earth's gravity is on the borderline of being too strong to allow rocks to escape via meteor impact. One might say that some impacts are much stronger than others so that fast ones might still do it. However, past a certain impact energy, ejected material vaporizes such that there are no projectiles left.

In other words, too slow and rocks cannot reach escape velocity. Too fast and rocks vaporize from the heat of the impact. The middle "just right" window may not exist, or barely exist on Earth, but is relatively wide on Mars because of lower gravity.

Thus, if there are Earth rocks on Mars, there will be far far fewer compared to the other way around.

--
Table-ized A.I.

It is possible... by Ghengis · 2004-01-21 17:27 · Score: 2, Funny

However unlikely, it is entirely possible to find such a rock... the kicker would be finding a dinosaur fossil from earth on Mars!

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"The best laid plans of mice and men gang oft agley..." - ROBERT BURNS

Re:A rock found in my backyard by Tablizer · 2004-01-21 18:45 · Score: 5, Interesting

Perhaps you mean another, now defunct, Sun. Ours is still made of Hydrogen.

Almost every piece of matter on Earth came from defunct Suns (stars) what exploded at the end of their lives. The very monitor you are staring at is left-over star boom boom. It is suspected that heavy elements like gold came from supernovas or hypernovas, really big stars with really big booms, the kind that can outshine entire galaxies for a few days or weeks. So next time you see a gold ring, realize that it came from the largest kind of explosions known in the entire universe. Booms beyond human comprehension.

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Table-ized A.I.

Memo by cubicledrone · 2004-01-21 18:51 · Score: 4, Funny

Better turn down the power on Spirit's drive wheels.

--
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.

I would have loved to send this rock into NASA. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-01-21 18:51 · Score: 2, Interesting

I would have loved to send this rock into Nasa's new rock collecting program, which allows kids to compare their rocks to those on mars by having them analyzed by the same instruments used by the rover.

http://www.nasa.gov/audience/foreducators/k-4/fe at ures/F_Schoolhouse_Rocks.html

Do you think NASA would give a kid back a rock it found to be from Mars?

Re:This sounds like BS by PhuCknuT · 2004-01-22 03:31 · Score: 3, Insightful

Imagine a large asteroid hitting mars. There will be BILLIONS of pieces sent into an orbit similar to mars, many of which will then be gravtationally tossed into other orbits by mars itself. It's not hard to imagine many many of these eventually landing on earth within the billion years or so since then.

There are alot more than 6 pieces that have been found, these two people just happen to collect ALOT of meteorites and happen to know how to recognize a martian one. Of course it sounds like too much coincidence to be true when you think only 6 have hit earth and all been found by the same people, but in reality thousands and probably millions have hit earth, and many have been found and not recognized for what they are. It only makes sense that the people who know how to recognize them would find the most.

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Martian Rock Found In Morocco

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