Slashdot Mirror


Homing In On Opportunity From Orbit

An anonymous reader writes "Finding its lander inside a 20-meter crater, NASA has further homed in its latest lander's location and a major science target for the Opportunity rover using high resolution orbital cameras from 400 km overhead. The lander's parachute even casted a shadow nearby this target [another 150 meter crater] during descent. Earlier, each bounce of the Spirit rover could be imaged, along with its backshell, heatshield and parachute debris. Even with dust and weathering, this method could find Pathfinder and Viking [barely], and a technical discussion with pictures is at Malin Space Systems, which designed the Mars Orbital Camera. Because of uncertainties in location, however, it would take 60 years to find the lost Mars Polar Lander, but they may look for Beagle if conditions aren't too dusty."

15 of 48 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Why is the US able to do these things so well? by orthogonal · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's like as soon as GWB came into office, the folks at NASA have really come into their own as space farers.

    Yeah, it's all thanks to the great GW Bush! Maybe we'll even find WMDs on the Moon!

    Why, even Slashdot submitters are learning to talk like our Smirker-In-Chief:

    The lander's parachute even casted a shadow nearby this target....

    Or as Dubya might say, "Is our children learning?"

  2. Org. Press Release from Nasa by danalien · · Score: 4, Insightful
    can be found here: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/newsroom/pressrelea ses/20040125c.html

    btw, I like this excerpt, about the 'Spirit' lander:

    >Encouraging developments continued for Opportunity's twin, Spirit, too. Engineers have determined that Spirit's flash memory
    >hardware is functional,strengthening a theory that Spirit's main problem is in software that controls file management of the memory.
    >"I think we've got a patient that's well on the way to recovery," said Mars Exploration Rover Project Manager Pete Theisinger at NASA's
    >Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.

    ...don't they kinda wished that they ran linux on it?
    and if it where buggy, they'd at least have a patch within a couple of hours ;-)

    --
    I don't claim I know more than I know, and if you know you know more than I know, then by all means, let me know.
    1. Re:Org. Press Release from Nasa by NanoGator · · Score: 3, Funny

      "...don't they kinda wished that they ran linux on it?
      and if it where buggy, they'd at least have a patch within a couple of hours ;-)"


      They better hurry before Redhat pulls the plug on the version they're using!

      (Boy I hope the mods are in good humor today.)

      --
      "Derp de derp."
  3. Re:Why is the US able to do these things so well? by NanoGator · · Score: 5, Funny

    "It's like as soon as GWB came into office, the folks at NASA have really come into their own as space farers."

    I was thinking virtually the same thing. Only, I had correlated it with the filming of The Simple Life.

    --
    "Derp de derp."
  4. Re:Why is the US able to do these things so well? by dhaines · · Score: 5, Insightful

    successful mission upon successful mission

    No.

  5. *ohh* A Following Question/Thought by danalien · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I kinda was wondering, if there couldn't be a 'OpenSource Space Initiative'

    Let's face it, most of the info that anyone who tries to leave this atmoshpre gives us
    is so 'sugar coated' that after a while it starts to taste awefull in our mounths. And on
    top of things, they only share 'limited info', keeping all the good stuff inside own
    closed doors (even if NASA says they are forth comming, there is much much we never
    will see...).

    And no, I don't mean, build things, more a 'Think Tank' group, who tries to focus on
    solving troubles/things, elaborating on ideas, finding solutions... etc; and at the end of they
    day, everything is Open to everyone, to comment on & contribute.

    *I know, I would like to contribute, if I where able to*... anyone, else?

    ps. if yes, you know where you can find me ;-)

    --
    I don't claim I know more than I know, and if you know you know more than I know, then by all means, let me know.
    1. Re:*ohh* A Following Question/Thought by DerekLyons · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I kinda was wondering, if there couldn't be a 'OpenSource Space Initiative'
      There could be, but it probably would not accomplish much.
      And no, I don't mean, build things, more a 'Think Tank' group, who tries to focus on
      solving troubles/things, elaborating on ideas, finding solutions...
      That could work... If you could find a few dozen people willing to spend months understanding a near-unique and tightly integrated hardware/software combination. This isn't like your home boxen where the two are more-or-less unrelated, and a hardware/software interface problem means downloading the latest driver as opposed to having to re-write the OS code.
      at the end of they day, everything is Open to everyone, to comment on & contribute.
      Without the months of self education mentioned above, the comments and contributions will be pretty meaningless. This isn't software that hundreds of thousands of people are running, thus providing a large and diverse base for testing and solving bugs. (And no, we can't substitute simulators either. It would be just as large, if not larger, task to write a simulator/emulator, and it would be just as meaningless at the end of the day without the education.)
    2. Re:*ohh* A Following Question/Thought by dk.r*nger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      [...] 'OpenSource Space Initiative' [...]
      And no, I don't mean, build things, more a 'Think Tank' group, who tries to focus on
      solving troubles/things, elaborating on ideas, finding solutions... etc; and at the end of they
      day, everything is Open to everyone, to comment on & contribute.


      And five or six years down the line:

      From: Nasa JPL
      To: project-leader@os-space.org
      Subj: Re: First OpenSpace rapport

      Dear contributers,

      Your ideas are good, and we greatly appreciate your effort.

      However, your findings are not new to us. One of our hundreds of insanely intelligent scientists thought this up during lunch in october 1983, and had mathmatical proof why it won't work by the end of the day. I'm sorry I can't share it.

      Best regards,
      Dr.Ph.d. N.N.

      PS: Some of you guys seem bright. If only you'd not wasted your time doing this and come worked for us instead...

    3. Re:*ohh* A Following Question/Thought by Muad'Dave · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Depending on what you call 'Space Initiative", it already exists. Amsat is a worldwide organization that designs, builds, and launches Amateur Radio satellites. They would love to have volunteers to help out, and are willing to add other payloads (like cameras, etc) to their spacecraft. They're even thinking about a Mars mission!.

      Join AMSAT, and help us open up space to the people!

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
    4. Re:*ohh* A Following Question/Thought by dk.r*nger · · Score: 2, Funny

      To be honest with you, I was merely fishing for a +1 or 2 'funny'..

      Speaking without knowing, however, I think NASA's work is pretty open to any 'friendly' country with a bonafide space program..

      Space research has some overlap with military research, and noone wants a nation like North Korea to progress any faster militarily than absolutely neccessary.

  6. Puh-lease! by rk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Every scrap of data from NASA science missions get released through the Planetary Data System, eventually. It's just the science teams that actually propose and run the missions get first crack at the data.

    If you think this isn't fair, stop for a moment and think about the years of blood, sweat and tears that go into these missions. Do you think it is fair then that the scientist with the best internet connection gets to analyze the data first, just because he has a great internet connection? I guarantee you that would end space research because there's no payback for the teams who actually design the missions.

    And if you think they did a crappy job with the analysis, well, eventually all the raw data is released and everybody gets a crack at it.

    1. Re:Puh-lease! by rk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It is a HUGE volume of data, and it comes from all over the place. If you are interested in navigation information, then you can point your FTP client of choice to naif.jpl.nasa.gov and download all the pointing and ephemerides you could want. There's even a toolkit there for various Unixes and Windows to parse this stuff. Science info gets/will get released on the main PDS site I mentioned before. If you want actual mechanical/electrical/propulsion engineering details, I'm afraid I can't help you. I'm a software engineer supporting the scientists, not the engineers.

      A caveat: The data at NAIF is not for the fainthearted. There are no "you are here" files. You are welcome to browse and take whatever you like but it is not trivial stuff. I've been working with NAIF kernels and the CSPICE library for two years and there are still parts that give me the shakes when I think about using them. Even a brilliant softwarte developer will have a difficult time making much sense of it without a more than superficial knowledge of ephemerides, remote sensing, and general NASA/JPL procedures and their peculiar argot.

      I also apologize if I came off rough before. We get (especially those of us in the Mars community) a lot of flak for not releasing up-to-the-minute data from people who are largely told what to think by Richard Hoa[gx]land and his ilk. I tend to take it a bit personally since there is not one bit of released data for the Odyssey THEMIS experiment that has not gone through software I personally wrote and these people more or less accuse us (ME!) of lying. In more polite societies, a charge of lying could be satisfied with swords or pistols on the field, but now all I can do is get really grumpy about it. :-)

  7. Re:Mars is conquered, almost by 5,+egregious · · Score: 5, Informative

    The cool thing about space exploration at the moment is a lot of that stuff you mention is being done now or about to be done.

    It's a bit easier to land on Venus than Mars as the atmosphere is so thick - apparently the landers didn't use the parachutes that much to slow down. On the flipside - existing in -25 degrees is easier than +500 degrees.
    The Messenger spacecraft will be on its way to Mercury via Venus soon.

    The Galileo Atmospheric entry probe hit the atmosphere of Jupiter in '95. In the future we may see the Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter and possibly a Europa lander and submarine - depending on whether the sub surface ocean exists.

    The Huyghens probe attached to the Cassini (Saturn orbiter) will analyse the atmosphere of Titan for about 2.5 hours and may work on the surface for 5 minutes or so (arriving July 2004).

    Cheers

  8. Re:Mars is conquered, almost by linoleo · · Score: 5, Informative

    I thought we never landed on Venus

    Depends on your concept of "we". The Russians had an extensive Venus orbiter/lander program - absolutely thrilling stuff considering the difficulties Venus presents. These guys were pioneers, the first to land a probe on another planet. The moon as well.

    I guess its time to look forward to either landing people on Mars, or pushing spacecraft further to Mercury.

    Why adopt Dubya's limited vision? The really juicy planetary science targets are Jupiter's icy moons, and Saturn's Titan. As has been pointed out, all of these, along with Mercury, are underway.

    Alas, it looks like Dubya's "mars or bust" program will drain the funding from many of the most exciting future space science missions, just as the "look mom, I'm (barely) in space" ISS did before, and the space shuttle (the Swiss army knife of spaceflight: does everything, but nothing well) before that. I'm so glad for those missions whose probes have been launched already - harder (though not unheard of) to axe those.

    to try and land/splash on Jupiter

    Been done.

    Jupiter is just a (humungous) ball of gas, there is no land to land on, nor sea to splash in.

    There are certainly going to be phase transitions to liquid and solid (aka "sea" and "land") somewhere in that humongous ball of gas. Operative question is how to design a probe to withstand the enormous pressure at the depth at which these phase transitions occur.

    Best,

    - nic

    --
    Be faithful to your obsessions. Identify them and be faithful to them, let them guide you like a sleepwalker. JG Ballard
  9. Re:Mars is conquered, almost by morton2002 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Jupiter is just a (humungous) ball of gas, there is no land to land on, nor sea to splash in. Just lots and lots of atmosphere to fly through.

    Jupiter's core is under such intense heat and pressure that it is speculated that it consists of metallic hydrogen, in either liquid or solid form. This theory helps explain its powerful magnetic field.