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Joel Rants About Resumes
rbrandis writes "Mr. Spolsky's latest rant is about writing a resume that will be read "Please do not use cover letters that you copied out of a book. If you write 'I understand the position also requires a candidate who is team- and detail-oriented, works well under pressure, and is able to deal with people in departments throughout the firm' then at best people will think you're a bullshit artist and at worst they will think that you were not born with the part of the brain that allows you to form your own thoughts and ideas.""
...you find yourself even *thinking* of using the word "proactive" - just give up now.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
There was a guy that applied for a programming job. He wrote on his resume that he knew C++ and C since he heard about those classes in college. So naturally he figured that there must also be C+ language and wrote it into his resume. The HR looked at his resume and lo and behold .. he was hired.
So after several pages of bashing pretty much each and every applicant and resume they ever had, the little note at the bottom says (emphasis mine):
Are you a student looking for a great job next summer? Fog Creek Software, a small and friendly startup in New York City, offers summer internships in software development for Computer Science students.
Oh the irony...
Sig? What sig?
how many people have seen emails like this? they always crack me up:
of course, there was no peter mcdermott at our company, nor did our jobs@ email have any name linked to it. the jackass forgot to remove it when he cut and pasted from some other job posting response.in the words of strongbad...DELETED!
anyone else's gag reflex triggered whenever getting an email beginning with Dear Sir/Madam from @yahoo.com?
*sigh*
-fren
"Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?"
Buzzwords. Acronyms. Keywords.
In anything much bigger than a 2-person shop these days, resumes pretty much just go unread into a database. They are only seen by a human if they match a retrieval request. For that to happen, you have to have the keywords that the hiring manager typed.
The rest doesn't much matter. If a retrieval doesn't match your resume, it will never be retrieved, and will never be read by a human.
One thing still missing from the databases: They need information on how long a given acronym, uh, I mean product, has been out. This would cut down on managers looking for five years experience on something that was released less than a year ago.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them."
It's hard enough to remember my opinions, never mind the reasons for them..
How about "Even stupider". Stupider? No such word. The form "Even more stupidly" would be correct in the context he's using.
C'mon - for once the grammar trolls can have a field day with this and still be on-topic. From my point of view, the phrase "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" comes to mind.
Cheers,
Ian
If only the Democratic candidates had resumes better than:
* Demonstrated leadership capabilities
* Against special interests
* For the middle class
On the other hand, maybe those writing tech resumes could learn from the politicians and insert a few lines trashing the other applicants?
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
I completely disagree. I get more responses when my cover letter is a song copied out of Lord of the Rings than I ever did when I included useless crap such as my qualifications.
Dear Mr. Jones,
I am very excited about this opportunity.
Clap! Snap! the black crack!
Grip, grab! Pinch, nab!
And down down to Goblin-town
You go, my lad!
Clash, crash! Crush, smash!
Hammer and tongs! Knocker and gongs!
Pound, pound, far underground!
Ho, ho, my lad!
Swish, smack! Whip crack!
Batter and beat! Yammer and bleat!
Work, work! Nor dare to shirk,
While Goblins quaff, and Goblins laugh,
Round and round far underground
Below, my lad!
Hired for what?
Oh, I get it. Deceit and stupidity...must have been an HR position!
Any sufficiently well-organized Government is indistinguishable from bullshit.
Maybe the problem is that after sending out 6000 resumes and cover letters while only using a grand total of 40 commas periods and other such punctuation and completely ignoreing proper grammar and punctuation in general has led me perspective employers to believe that you are the kind of person that rambles on and on and on and on and on without spending a great deal of time on proofreading the end product and ensuring the reader doesn't drown reading your resume?
Why do you call it a "bullshit question"?
Because it is an easy thing for the interviewer to ask. It shows no ingenuity nor does it reflect highly on the interviewer's intelligence. It is the kind of question a retarded person would ask thinking it makes them look smart.
Not only that, it can be considered an inappropriate invasion of privacy. "...so, what's your greatest weakness..." "I have a vodka and squirrel fetish that I simply cannot shake!" Even then, both the question and answer is completely irrelevant to the job; as long as the guy doesn't show up drunk with squirrels in his pockets, you shouldn't care what his greatest weakness is (given he is a reliable and competent employee).
Vote in November. You won't regret it.
Humor Challenged. But don't worry, you'll go far in Management...
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Put down the can of worms and step away from it right now.
"Mr. Ameba, your resume says that you are a multi-celled life form. Thats exactly what we're looking for!"
0xfeedface
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
Nobody gives a crap about your hobbies
... one lady wrote such a long detailed list of her hobbies that we wondered how on earth she could ever find any time to do any work ... so we didn't interview her. So, that section of her CV was useful to us.
Not quite
What he really needs is an editor to catch his sentence fragments.
because come on, do you ever really think you get an honest answer?
D.M.: "hi.. tell me what's wrong with you so we don't hire you."
Candidate: "oh.. ok.. let's see.. i lie, cheat, steal from the office supplies, sleep with co-workers and patent obvious things and sue people for my intellectual property."
D.M.: "you'll fit right in here! you're hired! welcome to sco!"
Nobody in the hiring process cares!
Please, please do not fax an 8x10 photo of yourself!
Three Squirrels
Instead of bringing in candidates and quizzing them with stock questions to find out how bright they are, make the world's hardest instructions for applying and then just bring in the ones who follow them. I see a lot of people who are incapable of reading and following directions and I believe that they generally are not good employees, so it seems like a fair part of the selection process.
Flat feet.
Oh, professionally? Well, I work so efficiently that it demoralizes all my coworkers. That's why they had to let me go from my last 4 jobs.
And then we'll send our resumes to IBM, SUN, DELL, GATEWAY and INTEL. To APPLE, AMD and MANDRAKE. And We'll take our remumes ALL THE WAY TO MICROSOFT!
AAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAA!
I myself am allergic to many perfumes, as are most members on both sides of my family.
Sending a perfumed resume is never a good idea. Many possible employers are allergic to perfumes. It's the perogative of the smart job-hunter to find a substance with a strong, memorable odor that nobody is allergic to and that will create a strong impression. This also must be cheap and easy to obtain on a job-seeker's limited budget, since you may be sending it to many people.
Once you have succeeded in filling a small cardboard box with such a material, print multiple copies of your resume and tape these to the box, covering it. Set the box on the employer's doorstep, light it on fire, and run away. This is a sure way for your resume to garner some attention.
Yeah, but my job applications are crafted works of art, reviewed so many times the screens wearing thin, checked by other people and then reviewed again.
My Slashdot postings are typed as quickly as possible to avoid missing too much work.
~Cederic
ps: of course, after all that effort my CV is totally fucked up by the job agency I had to apply through, so the hiring company doesn't see the results of my diligence and style. But hey, everyone applying for that job has the same problem
I've been doing alot of interviewing over the past several years and there's one thing that far too many people just don't get:
KNOW WHAT YOU PUT ON YOUR RESUME!
Seems like a pretty obvious thing, eh? No that I can prove. Not telling blatant lies on your resume is also important, but regardless of the truthfulness of what you've written, you need to remember it's on there.
Me: (seeing AIX experience on resume) What kind of experience have you had with AIX?
Applicant: Um, AIX?
Me: What platform does AIX run on?
Applicant: What's AIX?
If you put it on your resume at least know what the hell it is and remember it's on there. Even if that means you bring a copy of the resume with you and you look at it. I'm not even going to touch how I feel about the recruiter who brought this person in to waste the time of 4 different people who can't afford it because we're understaffed and trying to find someone to pick up the load. You know, the reason we're hiring in the first place? ARGH!
"Suppose you were an idiot..... And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeate myself."
A friend of mine in the office I work at replied to the same question with:
"Bubba needs grits."
He said it was fun to watch that statement sink into the minds of those interviewing him.
He got the job. Awesome work, and a great guy.
If this is the case, hedge your bets by sending MORE THAN ONE. It's a 50/50 chance either way.
Geeks lack social skills. The only way to build social skills is to get out there and approach. Approach early, and approach often. Hey, this advice won't only get you a JOB, it can get you LAID too!
(Maybe I should have posted A/C, but it's the truth, so it's going under my real UID.)
I wear pants when expected by our dippy culture, but I never understood what the hell they are supposed to mean. As far as I can tell, it's some pointless relic from an bygone era.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
I have received a number of funny and amusing resumes over the past year or two since I became management (*shudder*).
One of the most interesting was a gentleman applying for a Windows system administration position. It consisted of 7 pages of print, single space, 8 point type filled to the GILLS with every product he had every seen, touched, smelled or heard of. Everything from Microsoft Paint and Wordpad to a listing of at least 15 to 20 complier products. Yes, he even made the effort to let me know that he used DOS... and included every... single... version...
To top this little gem of a resume off (I had to read the whole thing, it was like watching a train-wreck), he included the following line at the end:
"This is a brief outline of my qualifications. If you would like a more detailed resume, please contact me".
PUUH.
I believe I sat dumbfounded in my chair for at least 5 minutes.
What, do they want us to be honest about why we want the position?
The New Standard Resume Cover: I want this job because I need something to cater to my gaming addiction. Staring long hours in front of a computer screen is already 90% of my day now, and I hope to increase that percentage with this job.
Take a page from Keith on The Office.
Brent: Now where it asks for your strengths, you put "accounts".
Keith: Yeah.
Brent: But accounts is your job. And here, you're asked about your weaknesses and you put "Exema"!
Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
And remember that spell checkers won't catch misspellings that spell another word.
I hat it when that happens.
Mr. Torvalds,
We don't care about a college software project you did over a decade ago. At a minimum, we require a work history for the last three years.
Regards,
Human resources
You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!
Easy enough, check!
What techniques do you find work best for this? Do you cold call random people in the company? Hang out suspiciously outside the building? Constantly hang out in outside places (restaurants especially) where employees hang out? I've been trying it, and all I get are restraining orders for stalking.
Interesting. So you're skipping the whole "job listings" idea where a company advertises the help that it needs, instead chosing to apply for theoretical jobs that might not exist.
A traditional recommendation, check.
I'm a software engineer. How exactly do I apply this? I've been breaking into their computer systems and snooping on their email, but it's hard to identify the key problems. Should I break into the office and rifle through their paperwork? Should I question the contacts I made in step 2? That would show that I had enough drive to convince a potential future co-worker to break their confidentiality agreement. Maybe I should only apply to companies that publically advertise their future plans and current problems? I have been thinking about stealing a copy of their source code so I could actually be prepared to solve problems today.
Another benefit of taking control (And not providing a resume, as you suggest later), is that it's hard to actually question me on my qualifications and prior experience, another advantage for me!
Check.
Aaaaah, here's the key! Not five minutes after I've finished the interview (in which I presumably thanked them for asking me in), there will be a note in their inbox, full of thanks, ready to blow fresh smoke up their asses. Shall I follow it with flowers and perhaps some chocolates? Here I
Ah, only apply to companies whose hiring departments are so bored that they'll schedule an interview without even glancing at a resume in advance!
Thanks, I look forward to applying your tips in my future job searches!
Search 2010 Gen Con events
If this is the case, hedge your bets by sending MORE THAN ONE. It's a 50/50 chance either way.
No! dont do that. Did that once, was hired for both positions, and now work 80 hours a week. The pay is indeed doubled, but half my vacation times goes unused!