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Developing a Standards-Compliant Web App?
dogas queries: "I work for quite a large company that is creating quite a large web-based enterprise-level application. We've been in development for a long while, and currently our app is only native to IE 5.5. At this point it would take a *lot* of effort to bring our app up to to be Standards-compliant. Now management wants our app to be more flexible, such that if the customer wants to customize the look-and-feel, it won't be a major undertaking that will kill the structure. Naturally, we're switching to a CSS-based layout, ripping out the IE proprietary Javascript in favor of ECMAScript, and bringing the whole app to XHTML 1.0 Transitional compliance while we're at it. Since we started coding the front end at about the time of the browser wars, we didn't have the luxury of planning to use the W3 standards (especially since they were not complete, and browsers weren't honoring them anyways). I'm wondering what type of priority creating a standards-compliant web app is in other companies, and if that priority is being raised given the benefits of creating pages that separate structure from style from behavior."
Standards compliance is always a good thing. But dont for a moment think that it means crossbrowser/platform compatibility. Nothing beats actually testing your application on at least the most popular browsers on the most popular platforms. More often than not you will have to make comprimises in order to achieve compliance and compatibility at the same time.
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Separating content and presentation would be a good thing. But the currently supported web standards (HTML, XHTML, JavaScript, DOM, CSS) don't let you do it by themselves. To achieve that kind of separation, you need to use some kind of server-side technology and you need to generate preference-specific HTML anyway.
But even if you manage to do that, it's not clear that it's a good thing: regular folks don't feel all that comfortable authoring abstract markup. They want to write their web pages in something WYSIWYG and they will (trust me) manage to encode lots of assumptions about how the content is ultimately presented.
So, you have to pick some kind of middle ground: not too much user customization but some (maybe light/heavy). Not too much server side separation of content and presentation, but some. Not too much JavaScript and CSS, but a little may help you out quite a bit. Etc.
If this application is visible on a public website, making it standards-compliant is a major step towards making it accessible to the partially sighted, blind or motion-impaired. The company may also have staff that fall into this category. Making the site accessible in this way could even be a legal requirement (depending on your country) and it's just the right thing to do anyway.
Aiming for standards compliance is always a good thing, IMHO. However, you will find that you will have to make compromises along the way given that not all browsers comply with the standards to the same degree.
:-)
About 2 years ago I was involved in redeveloping our proprietary Web app to comply more with standards. It was a huge uphill battle to try and convince management that this was what they wanted. Complying to standards meant we had to drop or significantly change features of the app to ensure that it would work cross-browser and remain accessible.
My main advice is that whenever you ahve to make compromises on functionality and compliance, try and veer to the side of compliance. Your customers will (hopefully) thank you for it in the long run. Especially, if like me, they don't use IE or Netscape
What are you aiming for - compliance with the W3C specifications, or separation of content and presentation?
You can use all those nasty <font> elements and still adhere to the specifications. Use HTML 4.01 Transitional or XHTML 1.0 Transitional (following Appendix C).
The benefits of adherance to public standards means increased compatibility with present and future browsers, and reduced business risk.
Separation of content and presentation is slightly more risky, due to buggy browsers, particularly Internet Explorer. If you are going to do this, make sure you have somebody familiar with CSS first that knows the limitations of the various browsers.
You may want to do it in two stages - first separating out the minor styling, such as fonts and colours, and then getting rid of the table layouts when you've laid the groundwork.
Older browsers like Netscape 4.x will almost certainly cause you major problems. The normal technique these days is to hide stylesheets from them using their bugs against them. That way, they get the plain, unstyled HTML page (which should still be functional if you are doing things right).
Newer browsers have something called "doctype switching". Make sure you trigger standards-compliant mode so that they are at least trying to do the right thing.
Don't rush headlong into CSS if you've not spent much time with it before. There are plenty of things you can do to screw up a page (e.g. pt or px-sized fonts) that aren't immediately obvious to the newcomer.
Luckily, the things I'm working on are fairly new, so we'd need a pretty strong reason not to use the relevent specifications and separate content from presentation.
As much as I understand the underpinnings of that statement, You cant go around making comments like that. Only coding for mozilla /netscape is just as lazy and ignorant as the idiots that only code for IE. The trick is to build for compliance, have a nice clean design and test cross platform and cross browser as much as possible. Iron out the bugs and make comprimises (usually graphic design) where there are style problems you cant fix.(Degrade gracefully)
I will say though its about time people gave up on NS4.7 it is the browser from hell!
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
One of the major advantages of going "standard" is simply the correctness of the XHTML/HTML you'll send to the browser; no missing tags, no misordered, no proprietary tags will do 80% of the job. The W3 validator is your friend.
Most of the trouble with "IE-enhanced" pages is the interpretation of errors by parsers. If I write:
[p][strong]foo[em]bar[/strong]baz[br]
In what tags is the 'baz'? depends on who reads it, mmh?
Except for NN4, unrecognized CSS tags will just go unnoticed for lower-version browsers, so that if your structure is OK, it should be usable for most browsers.
You might want to test with Mac's browsers (IE5 at least) to make sure your ECMAscript works; some core methods are missing.
And, should you need an incentive to go table-less, there is a great presentation that summarizes the advantages.
The css Zen garden is a great example if you want to show colleagues why separating presentation from content is a neat idea.
Regarding web applications: I believe it's always good to support multiple browsers - even if you don't need to because you write applications for a closed user groups, that uses only a known browser.
As soon as you start to automatically test your web applications with scripts (e.g. HttpUnit) there is suddenly another browser: The test script. The more browsers you support from the beginning, the higher the chance that you can easily automate tests for your application.
Your mileage may vary with read-only sites, but others have already elaborated about this.
Only latin is a true cross-cultural language. Latin texts have been written since the time of the Roman Empire.
Don't let the passing fad of the "English" language make a choice for you. Target the american market with latin pages!
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK