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Wi-Fi Redirect Gateway Patent for Hotspots
Glenn Fleishman writes "Over at WiFiNetNews.com, we just broke the story that Nomadix was issued a patent covering hotspot gateway page redirection. Nomadix makes hardware and software for the hotspot industry, and this patent would cover redirection used by community networking portals (like NoCat), sponsored free networks (like NewburyOpen.Net), and fee networks (like Wayport, T-Mobile HotSpot, and Cometa). It's unclear what terms Nomadix wants for a license, but this patent seems to take a standard way of doing business and put it under fee -- although Nomadix may have been the first firm to employ this method for proxy URL redirection."
Slashdot: News for Nerds. Patents that suck.
It's just getting ridiculous. We really need to do something about patent and copyright law in this country.
m.m.
this is looking to kill the OSS package. Has anyone had any experence with smone patenting somthing that already had a OSS using the method? Is there anything they can do about it?
Most schools have a similar setup for incoming students on wired networks... and this company is claiming their patent is not specific to wireless.
The trick is simple to explain... it's a conditional DHCP server. If the MAC address is recognized, the user is supplied valid DHCP information and is allowed to go about their way to the open Internet. If the MAC address is not on the guest list, then the user is supplied an IP address that's in a firewall-restricted range so they can't get out, and DNS server that will map any domain name to the same place, the internal "Please pay..." server. No matter what the user's homepage is, all requests on port 80 will lead to the "Please pay..." page, and all other requests will get dropped on the floor. The internal DHCP settings are set to renew very frequently, so once the user pays they just have to wait a few seconds for their current DHCP settings to expire, an the next lease comes with the proper info.
Still, that setup could be complex to be patented...
According to this article on the NoCatNet mailing list.
Sure URL redirection is neat, but is this that big a deal?
As a standard prior art question, has anyone seen anything like this for wired networks or similar applications?
Linux: The world's best text-adventure game.
seems that each company just gets the latest technology, add the an existing technology or idea and try to corner the market by a patent.
we need a slush fund to take these obvious ideas to court and get them invalidated.
Bloody hell my voice is horse now. Look this is a little out of line no? I'm going to patent ssh tunneling to check e-mail on wifi networks. Granted I didn't invent wifi networks, or ssh, but I'm putting them together for the purpose of e-mail checking over an insecure network, if IBM can patent paying people, and these chumps can patent logical solutions than I think I can get away with it.
Patent laws in the United States are the way they are to create a fair and balanced capitalistic society. This is news, but only in the sense that Nomadix was the first to patent this idea that will possibly become quite important in the future. Wireless technology, at least from a hotspot standpoint, is dependent on this URL redirection to create any sort of a viable "pay-for-access" service. Nomadix has the patent; let them issue licenses to those that need to use their technology. Let them have their patent to what they may have developed first and let them reap the benefits of developing technology. This won't change much in terms of the industry except for seriously impacting NoCat(a great piece of software by the way) in terms of licensing. Patents breed standards and standards breed functionality -- something we can all look forward to in the area of wireless hotspots.
In other news, the U.S Patent Office discontinued use of their Patent Archiving backup system when they discovered that slashdot was covering the release of all patents as "news".
--
The last digit of pi is four.
I suspect that if anyone decides to fight the patent they won't have too much difficulty unless the patent was filed for quite a long while ago.
fencepost
just a little off
I hate (all) patents, but after working in technology companies awhile, I realized that many companies get patents because they half to - to keep someone else from getting one and screwing them over, and to get into cross-licensing agreements with other large companies - to keep them from being screwed over even more (with patent liability crap).
Sadly, once a patent is gotten, it tends to take a life of it's own because of investor pressures. Patents do not help the honest littel inventor in the back yard (99% of the time) - I wish we could just get rid of them.
Wouldn't many of the old "free shell" systems be considered prior art, or does the fact that you are using wireless instead of wires make this a new idea?
I do seem to remeber telneting to a shell account, and being presented a list of terms for service and a registration dialog with my invalid login (and an opportunity to return to login in case a typo had brought me there).
Does anyone else remeber this? Did nether.net operate this way at one time? Would this be enough to invalidate the patent?
They applied for a very specific patent:
The basic claim (which is what
matters, not the invention descriptions) has seven steps, ALL of which much
happen for the patent to cover your activities:
1. A method for redirecting an original destination address access request
to a redirected destination address, the method comprising the steps of:
receiving, at a gateway device, all original destination address access
requests originating from a computer;
determining, at the gateway device, which of the original destination
address requests require redirection;
storing the original destination address if redirection is required;
modifying, at the gateway device, the original destination address access
request and communicating the modified request to a redirection server if
redirection is required;
responding, at the redirection server, to the modified request with a
browser redirect message that reassigns the modified request to an
administrator-specified, redirected destination address;
intercepting, at the gateway device, the browser redirect message and
modifying it with the stored original destination address; and
sending the modified browser redirect message to the computer, which
automatically redirects the computer to the redirected destination address.
Just because you disagree doesn't make it offtopic or flamebait.
Soon we will have to pay a licence fee to get up in the morning. Fuck all this shit. Time for a revolution.
The obvious workaround is to simply not redirect. Install a transparent proxy and serve up your desired page on the first request. This defeats
"modifying, at the gateway device, the original destination address access request and communicating the modified request to a redirection server if redirection is required;"
Better yet, claim 1 is fatally flawed. It includes the words "storing the original destination address if redirection is required". Claim 6 is likewise flawed: "stores the original destination address request if redirection is required". So the really obvious and easiest solution is to do exactly what you've been doing, except that you don't store where the user was trying to go, and they have to type the URL or back up and hit the link again.
While this was a valiant attempt by Nomadix to patent a process that was in common usage (my university used something with this effect, though not necessarially this process when I first hooked up on its dorm network the second half of my sophomore year, in '98), it ultimately falls short of the goal, and Nomadix should fire whatever patent attourney they had file this one.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Nomadix has a building just down the road from where I live in Wesltake Village, CA. Always wondered what they did...
The link the the USPTO did not work for me, so I cannot see the dates on the patent. But, there were companies doing this exact same thing in hotel networks well before WiFi came around.
I was showing this technology to many companies back in '97 like iPort (now Cisco) and the likes.. They can all suck me.
I mean, cmon, what's the point anymore? This is such a large planet with such a vast collection of knowledge and information and so many people in so many different locales working on so many different projects that it is so very easily plausible that two or more people are going to invent the same idea (maybe slightly different) at the same time that patenting stuff is just pointless. It stems innovation so quickly at such a low level in it's development that there could have been a thousand other people individually working on it that could have been a thousand times better. But now they have to give up and move on. Patenting stuff has become survival of the first instead of survival of the fittest. This is just riduculous(sp?).
I think patents should be replaced with a more "innocent until proven guilty" idea where, if two similar inventions appear at similar times where one starts to eat into the original's profits, then it is investigated, and then patents are enforced if it is proven that one copied off the other. Otherwise, deal with the frickin competition. Competition breeds healthy results, it keeps the competitors on their toes.
Public Domain and Open Source work so well, it's just scary. Patent abuse is so uncontrolled and unscaleable, it's just as scary. Look at SCO, look at Microsoft. We waste so much time bickering amongst ourselves and arguing on who did what first that we are spending one fifth the time doing and four fifths making sure no one else does. This is why the news is four fifths "election" and not even one fifth "hey we're doin shit on a planet 36 frickin million miles away"
And all we're doin there is playin around in the dirt with a remote control car. Just think where we could be now if we'd made an "open" space program. Maybe that's why we don't have floating cars and colonies on mars yet.
-P
A company I worked for did this for wired networks, mostly hotels. Instead of DHCP, we actually had an arp spoofer, so we would pretend to be whatever gateway you wanted (if you had a static ip setup), or wed serve you dhcp, or whatever you asked for.
No matter what webpage you requested, you got the sign up page to buy access. Pretty basic, and most hotel type places employ a system similar to this.
this comment is probably not relevant.
Patent this, patent that, stupid patents, obvious patents, blah, blah, blah.
Geez, what do you expect? Do you really think that you are going to find an Einstein in the patent office?
No, wait.
I would love to do this on my home wireless LAN. Can anyone point me to an free and/or open source way of doing this?
Im dreaming ofa big bndwdth, That can resist the
A company I used to work for(CAIS Internet/Ardent Communications) had a gateway system that did this over five years ago for wired networks. Here are some links to old press releases refering to the gatway system, the IPORT. http://www.kiosks.org/newsbits/2000/021500d.htm http://news.com.com/2100-1033-207372.html?legacy=c net
Ardent sold the system to Cisco in 2001:
http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/prod_022001.html
A short description of the software can be found here:
http://www.isp-planet.com/equipment/iport.html
Time to challenge this with the apache mod that handles that has been around for several years. Also you can challenge that this is technically covered in the homepage autoload in web browsers which have been around since text web browser programs have been there.
It's time to write your elected legislature and tell them you're tired of the patents and the system needs a overhaul. The USPTO thinks that they are not responsible for doing any simple research on a patent and that the Judicial system will sort things out. Which just costs American taxpayers money where the patent system is paid for partially by patent fees. Raise the fees so they're in accordance with what the person/corporation makes and maybe the problem will go away.
If what they're doing is novel, then yes, this is probably worthy of a patent. That does not mean that everyone else who does the same thing a different way is infringing. Contrary to the horror stories we keep hearing, patents are usually interpreted narrowly by the courts. I'm not worried... yet.
WARNING: there is a trojan on your
I am so sick of this crap. Why is it that when an obvious solution to an obvious problem presents itself, some ass munch somewhere thinks they own it? WTF is wrong with the world? If you need to hit something hard and you see a rock, does that mean that from then on you own all hammers, clubs and any other heavy blunt objects that might be used to hit something with?
I am grinding my teeth right now.
It is in the Patent Office's best interest to accept everything and let lawyers battle it out.
So, why would someone smart enough to do a great job at an understaffed office work for government pay and crappy workload when they can work in the private sector for more $$$ and recognition?
Why would the Patent Office examine patents thoroughly when they don't have to? When it is in their best interest to be a cash cow for the government? When the private sector does all the work, research, and 'enforcement'?
How can we change the Patent office so that it's useful again? Here is a rather extensive history of the Patent Office. (When it was useful)
Answer these questions that are clouded by money, and we could have patents that actually encourage innovation and invention rather than controlling the use of obvious technology for which prior art is bigger than life.
Does Kerry offer something different from Bush?
Please consider Edwards, Dean or Clark.
This patent would appear to be a perfect example.
Prior Art: Apache, DNS, DHCP the list is so endless and obvious that these people should be made to spend a long time in jail.
If Martha Stewart can be liable for jail time for what she did then thieves like this (to say nothing of SCO) should be stocking up on vaseline and cigarettes and getting ready for life inside.
... If you read the patent and you are not an idiot or a murdering thief laywer (I call pro-IP and pro-patent lawyers are "murdering thieves" ... this is a bit like the way the RIAA calls music sharing "piracy" - sorry it's a bad personal habit I've been meaning to correct) then you will simply want to spread the word about the lying companies that are claiming patents on these technologies.
...." ploy in order to bamboozle the USPTO. So they are stupid or eviland in iether case should not be allowed to enrich themselves.
They are essentially patenting "redirection" and the concept of a "gateway" - either becasue they are too stupid to realize the obviousness of these technologies or they are counting on the old "ooooh it's **computers**
... or how about "paper sheets stapled together with list of addresses ..."
...
That one could extend to DNS and cripple the entire Internet with ma$$ive patent license fees
Does anyone else find it very convenient that Slashdot posts a story everytime SCO does something they don't like, but they don't bother to post a story about the worm that will DDoS SCO? Slashdot likes to portray itself as reporting the side of the news that the mass media often ignores. In some cases this may be true, but conveniently ignoring this story because it might make the Linux community appear childish and disruptive in the eyes of some is yellow journalism. I've lost a lot of respect for Slashdot because it fails to report the story of this disuptive e-mail worm while posting other stories that are relatively unimportant.
10 or 20 other people (some under the age of 12) have "invented" the same technology simultaneously. O'Reilly has a book on how to do it.
"Other companies copied us" is not a valid defense of a patent when quite obviously other companies did NOT copy the technology since the idea was absurdly obvious.
When did Nomadix "come up" with their brilliant idea? Does anyone actually know?
I know that Berkeley's AirBears system (airbears.berkeley.edu) had it sometime in 2000-2001. Perhaps, someone came up with this idea before Nomadix?
Anyways, patents suck. Especially stupid ones like this.
The way that patents are being doled out these days, do you think that someone might be able to sneak through a patent for the patent system it self?
Just a petty gripe, go ahead and mod off-topic, but is there really a hotspot "industry?" A few days ago in an article featured here a guy selling virtual MUD objects was claiming to be the world leader in the "game enhancement industry." Give me a freakin break. A niche business isn't an industry.
/takes deep breath, drinks more caffeine.
There. I feel better now.
Iowa state has been doing this for at least four years. And their technology works exactly the same over wifi. Sinc the method is media agnostic, couldn't you get around this patent simply by ignoring the fact that you're doing this over wifi?
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
hmmm .....
Looking through the refeenced page I have just one thing to say... well 2....
Border manager (a Novell product)
They use URL redirection as part of their proxy product. I bet that alone predates this patent.
Squid (the proxy server) which can do the same sort of thing, with some trickery.
I been using squid to do the same sort of thing at a school for about 3-4 years now.
Charge much more money for the patent process, enough to pay for carefull analysis. Let small inventors in by giving up a peice of the royaltes.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Are you saying that patenting one method for doing wifi registration is equivalent to actually literally killing someone?
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Wait, How do they open up a page when I get on a hot spot? Any problems with security?
[blue] - The Ministry of Information approved this message...
I dont think the patent is invaild and I believe most system admins had already in many forms been doing redirects to authenticate customers. It's a very simple concept and the Patent councils may have been a bunch of old who dont know anything about the Internet.
Best way to kill a patent is not to buy or support the people who have positioned the patent.
Internet Security,
Honolulu
For startups, it's always nice to show an impressive patent list to investors. Usually easier to get more funding.
Large companies encourage engineers to file patents (they sometimes get a small bonus, etc.) and again almost never try to make any money of them.
These are the reasons we see many less-than-amazing patents filed these days. It *looks* good.
There are some obvious counter-examples but these are usually more sophisticated patents.
but they just need time to work on their theories!
Sorry, that's wrong. Patent law is more complicated than that.
35 USC 102 and 103 give the criteria for obtaining a patent in the US: novelty and non-obviousness to one with ordinary skill in the relevant art.
The applicant for this patent had to invent the invention sometime before applying for the patent (obviously). If this invention was (1) prior to what anyone else can prove (or prior inventors abandoned, supressed, or concealed the invention) and (2) there was "reasonable diligence" [see 35 USC 102(g)] from just before the invention by another until application, then prior art to overcome the patent must be either a patent (anywhere), a printed publication (anywhere), or public use/sale (in the US) more than one year prior to the application date.
Basically, someone either has to show a printed publication prior to invention or public use or sale in the US more than one year prior to the US application.
I hope that made sense. Reading the two short sections of patent law linked to above should help in understanding a lot of patent disputes.
iptables -t nat -I PREROUTING -p tcp --dport 80 -j REDIRECT --to-ports $WEBSERVER_AUTH_PORT
if (user_authenticated)
iptables -t nat -I PREROUTING -p tcp --dport 80 -j REDIRECT --to-ports $SQUID_PORT
We've gotta do something about these "common sense" patents...
The USPTO is the only government division, the ONLY one, that operates at a profit...
That's why I can patent the "Method and apparatus for hybridization of deoxyribonucleic acid by means of repetitive insertion of a half-helix into a controlled environment that maintains constant temperature while rapidly increasing humidity" as a means of human reproduction.
Remember Belkin's routers that hijacked http connections? They seem to be doing the same thing as this so-called "invention".
The patent is dated 24 October 2003, however Belkin's hijack software is earlier - it dates from 15 September 2003 or earlier, so it is presumably prior art.
(IANA patent laywer).
So goes the wireless world. The greedy jackasses will do thier best to shove hotspots into your face instead of offering wireless as a competitive edge. The same morons would charge for lighting and hot water if they could.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I dont know about you, but I saw this in dozens of places across the country in summer 2000, with AND without wireless... Homestead Suites did it in their seattle place, and somehow I suspect the company that developed it did so previous to that.
Heck, I had done this on my OWN PERSONAL LAN for shits and giggles before that. I think that this one will suffer a pretty quick demise, but if not, I'll go dig up an old hard driver or two.
-- (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
a$$holes.
'Nuff said.
This article describes "NetReg" An Automated DHCP Registration System. See the following URL: http://www.southwestern.edu/ITS/netreg/SysAdmin/ This is clearly prior art and needs to be used to challenge this patent.
Yes. I was in a hotel in Ohio about 1.5 years ago, and they used the same scheme.
They had ethernet ports in the room, and first time you connected, it redirected your home page to a special page where you have to do a selection before you can get out to the net.
Posting the same thing again and again, what a waste of slashdot disk space. Fuck off and die.