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NPR's Car Talk Dumping RealMedia
olcrazypete writes: "Click and Clack are apparently fed up with Real Networks. They have switched to Windows Media Player format. 'Why? Because, for a long time, we've had tons of complaints about RealNetworks. And the one that ticks us off the most is the perceived trickery they use to sell their premium products. This is just our opinion, mind you, but it's shared by enough of our listeners, that we
finally decided to take action.' The whole story is here . My favorite line: 'It stinks so much that it even makes Microsoft look good by comparison. That's something, huh?'"
Switch to something a little more open minded... like Nullsoft's Shoutcast. I listen to some pretty nice UK radio stations from across the pond with KDE's Noatun whilst I code thanks to Shoutcast. I don't see any reason why its not usable for radio broadcasts like Click & Clack.
-- Stu
/. ID under 2,000. I feel old now.
For those who don't know already, both mplayer and xine play streaming windows media just fine on Linux/FreeBSD/etc.
There are really only two major players out there these days, Windows Media and Quicktime.
The main problem with Real is the server licenses. That and the really bad reputation their spyware gave the format.
Give people a choice of Windows Media and QuickTime, for video or audio, and you really can't go far wrong.
Flash video is looking really good these days too, although it's still early days for the Macromedia folks.
On my Windows XP boxes, QuickTime has been remarkably unstable through three major and countless minor releases. Crashes, weird artifacts that linger for the duration of playback, "corrupted" files that played fine under Win2K...
I wouldn't use QuickTime for authoring unless my audience was primarily Mac-based.
Well, I think part of the reason is that Quicktime is almost as unstable as RealPlayer.
Not that I would ever endorse anything from Apple, but their streaming media technology seems fairly competent.
We tried to do streaming media with Darwin Streaming Server.. the problem is that you need Quicktime Pro in order to make streaming quicktimes.
Also, DSS doesn't do on-demand. It works like TV, you can't start at the beginning, you have to "tune in" to the broadcast.
As crappy as realmedia is, we can do live broadcasts, as well as let people listen in from the beginning, all with the same stream. Once we find a solution that lets us do both for relatively cheap, we'll switch.
DSS is almost there, they just need the ability to do on-demand streaming.
Media Player Classic will play both QuickTime and Real without either installed.
Windows Media, Real and QT all run on Mac no problem
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Go here to get Real Alternative.
a ti ve.htm
It plays Real Audio crap without the need for Real's crapware.
Windows only, I do believe.
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/Real_Altern
no they did not. they are still playing games.
1 2904realhome_1_3_2_1_1_1
go to http://www.real.com/.
the headline reads: Introducing RealPlayer 10
subheadline: New Powerful Free
with a big image with a big, bright "Free" logo.
click on the free logo takes you here:
http://www.real.com/realplayer.html?pp=home&src=0
there are two big "Download Now" buttons on this site. both lead to the non-free premium player. in the margin on the right, with grey text over a grey background, there is a link to the free player.
that is bullshit. i know the free player is there, and that real plays tricks, so i specifically look for it. the average internet user, on the other hand, may not be that aware.
real are still assholes, and i am glad cartalk is moving away from their format because of their shitty tactics.
This is the problem of windows in general. You see, program ABC and XYZ will run fine on machine A. On the next (machine B) programs JKL and XYZ do fine, and ABC causes a bsod. Not only are windows machines unstable, they're unpredictably unstable.
litigious bastards
suck it sco!
Here's a little trick that works for Mac users and may work for Windows users.
Set your system clock ahead like 10 years, then run Quicktime player. When it asks you if you want Quicktime Pro hit the "Ask me later" type of option. Then quit Quicktime Player and reset your system clock to normal.
The next time Quicktime Player will nag you about Quicktime Pro will be 10 years from now!
Sapere aude!
I had the same question about why to not use quicktime. It's certainly more portable. Squeakyweasel has a good feature on the various advantages and disadvantages of using Realmedia, Windows Media, and Quicktime for streaming video.
Ogg Vorbis is just sound
yeah, and car talk is a *RADIO* show!
Just makes me sick that it pops up a windows asking you to update every time. I don't wanna update, get it Apple, eh?!
We host the local NPR station using ffmpeg and everyone's been quite happy with it. When they initially consulted with us I recommended against RealPlayer for exactly the reasons stated in the summary.
The only 'problem' I have with ffmpeg is that it's been using 100% cpu on one of the processors. But since it's a dual-processor server that we are no longer using for anything major other than the streaming, it hasn't been a big enough issue to figure out why it's doing it.
This can actually be achieved with ffmpeg/ffserver combo. It does live streaming but includes a buffer to you can start the stream at an earlier point. I've done a solution based on this about a year ago and - well - since the customer hasn't complained I'll assume it's still working flawlessly :)
But one person finds this reply useful, I'll be happy. :)
There exists an alternative to downloading the horrid Real Player. Try googling "Real Alternative". It is a freely available codec that can work with any standard media player (such as Media Player Classic). Infact, I think it comes bundled with MPC. As far as I know, it works well.
You can always grab the radio signal from the ether and encode it to MP3 or whatever on your own. Here are a couple of pages on how to do this: #1, #2.
You know you can download the "older" players and then just manually load the newer codecs. . . THEN DITCH THAT POS and get yourself media player classic. Runa all the codecs, has none of the adware.
Find out about my new childrens book: SS Death Camp Criminal Batallion Go To Monte Carlo For The Massacre
Quicktime Pro was not holding them back fro mgoing to quicktime, its only 30 bucks...atleast I hope not...
Not the price, but the fact that Quicktime pro can't capture a stream and encode it on the fly.
We need to:
A. be able to record and stream a video and audio on the fly
B. allow the user to either tune-in, or play from the beginning.
Realmedia is the only solution I've found that allows both of these. We're always open to other solutions though if you know of any.
Some choice quotes:
1. Go here to download a previous version of Real Player. I recommend Real Player 9, which is what this guide is written for. Don't bother with that Real One shit. Choose the most basic player that's available.
2. Choose the custom install option. Uncheck all the boxes for the desktop icons and file associations.
3. Start Real Player. Go to View->Preferences and disable anything else that you don't want. Do this for StartCenter, since it eats up memory.
4. Go to Program Files\Common Files\Real\Update_OB. Delete or rename realsched.exe, which will still run even if you've disabled everything else.
5. Run msconfig to take out realsched from win.ini, as well as any other program you don't want loading at startup.
Some of the info came from here. Use this info at your own risk!
Enjoy!
Because they sell archives through Audible. Using a streaming format with DRM at least provides some ass-coverage against redistribution. Remember, Car Talk is not free-as-in-beer. Your local NPR affiliate pays a hefty chunk of change for Car Talk, All Things Considered, and other radio shows you all take for granted.
But no: "Cannot find codec for audio format 0xA" and mplayer bails. Many hours of googling, trolling mplayer-dev/user and all I can come up with is:
I've got MPlayer 1.0pre3, and /usr/lib/win32/wma9dmod.dll (along with the rest of the "essential.tar.bz2" codecs) from the mplayer web site.
If someone has *actually* listened to a wma CarTalk feed and can tell me where to find the magic codec I will be a very happy camper. I will even accept a necessary minimum of abuse for not finding the solution on my own.
You won't find the older players by navigating their website, you just have to know the link http://forms.real.com/real/player/blackjack.html
What was the last law that benefited people but not corporations?
iTunes (which runs QuickTime underneath) streams Sean Hannity (in MP3) for me without a hitch on WinXP and Win2K. That's three hours a day with no glitches, unless there's a problem on the server side. (I know the problem is on their end because Winamp doesn't work any better if there's a problem with the MP3 stream.) They also do Windows Media and Real streams...I'll take WMA if I can't get MP3, but WMA takes much longer to begin playing than MP3.
I can't remember the last time I had RealPlayer installed on any of my computers. I simply haven't had a need for it. I almost broke down and was ready to install the Palm OS version on my Tungsten T when it became available, but then AeroPlayer made it to market first with both MP3 and Ogg Vorbis playback.
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
and get yourself media player classic.
Why bother when it already comes on your machine? Look for "mplayer2.exe" in your latest Windows Media Player folder.
On linux, there's the open-source HelixPlayer project, which has recently had a Milestone 2 preview release.
Check out Helix Player
Rather than celebrate another format win by Microsoft, complain! Put up a stink.
In the meantime, if you don't like the way the RealPlayer currently works, help us with the Helix Player, which is an open source player that commercial Linux desktop providers don't have to worry about getting sued for distributing.
If you don't like the fact that RealAudio and RealVideo are still proprietary formats, then help us support Ogg Vorbis and Ogg Theora, as well as any other free codecs that are applicable. But whatever you do, don't just let Microsoft win these battles.
Rob Lanphier
Helix Troublemaker
RealNetworks
Let's put it this way: it happens so often with Microsoft's competitors that it seems likely that either Microsoft is deliberately sabotaging rivals who code for Windows or Windows itself has some serious issues and causes a lot of programs to glitch. Either way it doesn't look good for Microsoft.
If you really do think this, I'd suggest reading Raymond Chen's blog. Raymond is a Windows shell programmer (and author of the famously popular TweakUI) and has been working with Windows since long before Windows 95. He's constantly adding entries on "why we did this" or "why it works like this" that shed a whole new light on the internal workings of Windows. Some of the more interesting articles are on his archived site, like The Story of the Shell Folders Key or What about BOZOSLIVEHERE and TABTHETEXTOUTFORWIMPS? Raymond does actively monitor comments to his blog postings and if you have a coherent question or comment, he will usually respond.
I'm not going to be an apologist for RealNetworks past actions. RealNetworks is a big enough company, that Jamie Zawinski's quote "[G]reat things are accomplished by small groups of people who are driven, who have unity of purpose. The more people involved, the slower and stupider their union is." I'll admit we've done slow and stupid things. However, there are certain things that can only be done by big companies, no matter how slow and stupid, which is why I haven't written a similar rant.
However, I'd like to point out that, in the "slow and stupid" vein, we're slowly getting better. The RealPlayer 10 beta isn't perfect, but it's better, and I imagine that things will be better in the final release.
Moreover, we've got a lot of really great things going on in the Helix Community. We've got the Helix Player for Linux, which just the won Best Open Source Project award at LinuxWorld. That means that if there's something that annoys you about it, you can fix it. It's based on Gtk, and the engine code is all cross-platform, so someone could theoretically port it to Windows even.
So, we're trying. I'm hoping that folks could cut us a little slack. I'm hoping that the Linux folks out there could help us change Car Talk's mind, since Windows Media is a pretty Linux-hostile format.
Thanks
Rob Lanphier
Helix Troublemaker
RealNetworks
Maybe there will be an open surce equivalent soon that will let you write the whole godam stream to a file before it even starts playing.
mplayer -ovc copy -oac copy -o foo.avi rtsp://whatever
(And what does "disp" mean? News about English slang is tragically lacking over here in the land of the rising sun . . .)
Just tell it not to run in the system tray, then it won't bother checking for updates, and thus will not constantly nag you to upgrade.
Actually I think he's referring to the excellent "Media Player Classic" a GPL "re-write" of mplayer2, it has all of features that the original did (small size, clean interface) and a heap of extra's such as Realmedia/Quicktime and even flash playback support using the IE plugin controls. http://sourceforge.net/projects/guliverkli/
Try FFmpeg, a project that includes a server that does just that and some more. It can encode to many formats. Last time I used it though not every media player worked with its streams.
"Disp" was a joke. He was making reference to the fact that Real Player always buffers content. Despise - that is the word he was referring to. However, because of a buffering problem, his post got cut short. Also see, "NO CARRIER" joke. Thanks, Joke Explainer
I think though that real has lots of issue.
:D Real player was always better on the mp3s though.
1. its HARD to find the free player. They keep saying "free player here" but then nothing be for sale ones show up, then you find the little link hidden in the corner somewhere.
2. they want email for download. I know you can enter a fake one. But I get tired of it all.
3. They will install loads of *extra* garbage that MS wont. (Or MS is much better and covert-ops)
4. It will take you weeks to learn all the tons of things you need to turn off to keep that thing from harrassing you.
5. if you don't register, it keeps asking you each time you try to play a file. You get choice OK-Cancel (among other issues) which implies either register, or don't play. Quicken does the same horrible thing with their update feature...
I used to like realplayer better than MS. But if they are going to be equally as corrupt, I'll stick with MS since I already have it
VLC www.videolan.org
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Except it is illegal to use the wma codecs unless you have a paid copy of windows. So ya I can listen to car talk with linux, but that means the FBI will probably be beating down my door.
http://www.windmeadow.com/
Check their site - they'll give you MP3, but you have to pay for that right. They're using the proprietary formats for their lack of ease.
SIG: HUP
You know what you can also do?
Install RealPlayer, and then start -> run -> gpedit.msc -> Administrative Templates -> System -> "Don't run specified windows applications", and add everything real player you can find. Fire up the thing and check your process list, etc.
Then, go download TARA's winamp plugin, and get winamp 2.7x and up or winamp5.
Then, adjust your file associations. RealPlayer files now play in Winamp, one of the most lean and ad free pieces of software out there.
Booyah.
~Will
sig?
MPlayer or if you're Microsoft's bitch then use the Win32 version.
Microsoft gives away the Windows Media server. You as a content distributor can serve up as many Windows Media streams as you want, no charge. Microsoft develops state-of-the-art codecs and integrates them into a platform that is literally a no-brainer to install and use. Windows Media is a loss leader for Microsoft that makes it a lot easier for them to sell servers.
.mp3, have begun to try to collect royalties from the authors of all the various implementations of .mp3 technology.
.mp3 standard is 14 years old now, which accounts for the 50% bitrate penalty you pay vis-a-vis Windows Media for comparable performance.
a te/licensing.aspx . In general, they're considerably lower than MPEG's.)
Despite widespread popular belief, MPEG technology is not free; there are many components of various MPEG standards that are patented. Typically, in exchange for a license to implement an MPEG standard, a manufacturer pays royalties to the patentholders, which it typically recovers in the price paid by the consumer. In the last few years Thomson and Fraunhofer-Institut, the main holders of patents relative to
For more details check out http://mp3licensing.com/ (for audio) or http://mpegla.com/ (for video and systems like your cable modem - yes, your cable modem tunnels IP over MPEG-2). In general, MPEG royalties are not what little guys like you and I would think of as "cheap".
Moreover, MPEG, being an international standards body, moves with all the blazing speed of diplomacy. The
(To be thorough here, Microsoft also charges royalties to third-party developers who implement Windows Media. You can read all about them at http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/cre
Real's situation is more difficult than in that licensing the streaming technology is its primary source of income - which in general is not true of Microsoft, the MPEG patentholders, or the various businesses associated with Quicktime streaming. Consequently, RNWK tries to hit up everyone it can find for as much money as possible. This is not only distasteful to the consumer, but also to the streamcaster whose largest single operating expenditure is license fees to RNWK.
There's nothing really wrong with RNWK's technology, except maybe that they don't have the cash flow to spend on codec development that Microsoft or Apple does. They've done well just to stay in business this long, given the market they're in and the competition they've taken on.
I think I found the link to where the streaming music should have been, but the link was dead?
The BBC made a unique deal with Real Networks which disposes of their spyware tactics. Basically, if a user clicks on a link to download Real Player from a BBC website, the referrer script sends them to a page where they can download an expiry-free, spyware-free and nuicance-free version of the player.Try it.