Lycoris Shipping Linux OS For Handhelds

Bill Kendrick writes "According to LinuxDevices.com, it appears Lycoris has put together an OS for handhelds like the iPAQ and Zaurus. It's based on the Open Source OpenZaurus and OPIE projects, so it should look pretty familiar to Linux-on-PDA fans."

Comments

Excellent!

[nil5]

Now I can fit my geekiness in my pants pocket and take it to parties and pick up girls and . . .

/me wakes up from another ridiculous dream

Re:Excellent!

[nofx_3]

The distro uses openzaurus, which has the opie windowing system. Opie was originaly forked off of Qtopia, an embedded qt qui and pim software that draws directly to the frambuffer, so no x is needed. X can be run the the devices, but the screen on some of the zaruii can be as small as 320x320 so x may not be the best option.

Re:Excellent!

[R.Caley]

Now I can fit my geekiness in my pants pocket and take it to parties and pick up girls

Is that a page fault in your pocket, or are you just pleased to see me?

Is that a...

[cujo_1111]

Is that a penguin in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me?

new place for distro wars

[contrasutra]

Just when I thought the embedded market was safe, we'll now have distro wars on a PDA!

Lycoris vs Gentoo for my palm.

Actually, no one really knows if Gentoo on your PDA works, as it hasn't finished compiling yet. It always gets about half way there (est. time: 6 weeks) and the pda starts to smoke.

Re:new place for distro wars

[gid13]

Looking at the site (http://www.opensistemas.com/Gentoo_for_Zaurus.715 .0.html#) shows the Zaurus doing the "emerge" part and the main PC doing the compiling.

Re:new place for distro wars

[chunkwhite86]

Actually, no one really knows if Gentoo on your PDA works, as it hasn't finished compiling yet. It always gets about half way there (est. time: 6 weeks) and the pda starts to smoke.

Mine finished! Wireless LAN works, and it's the most stable PDA platform I've eve

[NO CARRIER]

Better than OpenZaurus?

[NoDoZ]

How does this compare to the OSes already available for the Zaurus?

Re:Better than OpenZaurus?

[benow]

It looks quite similar to me. Eye candy is a bit different, but not much more than that. It looks to be basically the same functionally with a brand applied. The sync application is perhaps the biggest custom piece, tho i've no problem syncing data from my zaurus (calendar, mail and contacts) to evolution. Ssh, scp, http, for the rest. Don't get me wrong, the Z is _great_, but don't put it off to wait for this distribution, and if you are considering, consider the C7x0 series.

Andrew

Palm OS's

[Rick and Roll]

Yeah this looks nice. But what I would really like is to have an Open Source Operating System on my cell phone. They already have 640x480 digital cameras on some sleek models. I would like to be able to take a picture with these and have it go into my Photo-Blog. This could be done by sending the image over e-mail (which might be the way I code it anyway) but I don't want to have to enter things in every time.

But putting this on an iPaq would be sweet. I dunno, though, if I shelled out money for a palmtop, I would probably get the Palm model with the expanding screen. That is nice for viewing pictures and stuff.

Re:Palm OS's

[notsoclever]

Sharp makes a CompactFlash camera attachment for the Zaurus. It's a bit pricey at something like $130 though.

Also, you can always use the Zaurus to view pictures taken on a digital camera. One time I was borrowing a friend's digital camera for a photo shoot, and rather than hold on to the camera I just used my Zaurus to copy the contents off the camera's CF card, and then when I got home used my CF WiFi card to transfer the images to my computer. Worked wonderfully.

I'd take a look at it...

[TheMadPenguin]

If I didn't have my beloved Zaurus, I might try Lycoris... but only if you threatened me at gunpoint of course. Or maybe poked me with a sharp stick a few times :)

----
http://www.madpenguin.org

Re:But still not ready for the desktop eh

[agent dero]

I own the same iPaq, and i'm really excited about this; BUT.

Say the installation screws up, or I don't like it; how could I get Windows CE back on my iPaq? Any takers?

So you want to make a Linux PDA?

[IceFox]

Having worked for Sharp and have stuff in Opie and delt with quite a lot of Linux in the PDA scene. I put together an article in my free time the last few years. Some ideas you may like, some you may disagree with. A few ideas you might not have known about, and many that you probably could list yourself. Without further delay here it is:

http://www.csh.rit.edu/~benjamin/articles/linux_pd a.php

-Benjamin Meyer

Re:So you want to make a Linux PDA?

[ajagci]

Many of the things I agree with.

But I think it's a fundamental mistake to approach PDA development like desktop development (in fact, I think it's a mistake to approach desktop development like people do today, but desktop machines are powerful enough to get away with it).

For a usable PDA environment, you need efficiency, robustness, easy communications, and easy extensibility. A dynamic language that runs everything in a single address space can give you that. A collection of C/C++ behemoths linked against complex C/C++ GUI libraries cannot. The Newton got this right. Smalltalk got this right.

Lycoris vs Lindows?

[kevin_conaway]

On the lycoris website, it says

Buy Desktop/LX pre-loaded on PCs at WalMart.com! Check out the entire line of MicroTel Desktop/LX- Certified PCs ranging from $199 to $558.

I thought that was Lindows market. Has WalMart dumped Lindows or are they coexisting? If the latter, that will be extra confusing for Joe Sixpack buying Linux at WalMart

Re:Lycoris vs Lindows?

[LnxAddct]

Yes they coexist, along with SUSE and Linare. See for yourself. Check the left side column for SUSE and Linare.
Regards,
Steve

Re:Lycoris vs Lindows?

[Bill Kendrick]

that will be extra confusing for Joe Sixpack buying Linux at WalMart

Perhaps. But then again, they also sell countless brands of toothpaste, lots of different TVs, VCRs and DVD players, etc. Sometimes people are forced to pick/choose. It might end up being random... they might have done research beforehand... they might just ask the pimply-faced clerk "duh, what's gud for me two yoos?" :)

31337 h4xxor

[LnxAddct]

Look at the third picture on the site.

" Owned by Joseph Cheek"

Damn not even on the market yet and already 0vvn3d. This Joseph Cheek guy is 1337.

-Steve

What is with Lycoris trying to emulate XP?

[gotr00t]

One of the biggest reasons why I went with GNU/Linux with X and KDE is the fact that I can configure it to whatever I want it to look and feel. Many distros also seem to have this philosophy, and have created their own unique interfaces, using KDE as a starting point.

However, of all of these distros, Lycoris has tried to emulate WinXP for all their desktop platforms, and now, they are emulating Microsoft's PocketPC OS for their mobile platform, and by doing so, they have conceded that the XP interface is perfect, and something to copy, which it is definately not (just look at the number of people who have added a program that simulates the OS X dock onto their WinXP desktop) This is the reason I will probably never even consider using Lycoris: because the XP interface (IMO) is terrible, and I would definately not use it, or a rip of it, voluentarily.

Re:What is with Lycoris trying to emulate XP?

[beldraen]

It boils down to, "who do you think they are going for?" You? Nope. You're already copping an attitude of "why would you want it to look like XP?" Reality is that people want familiar and XP is familiar. Business wants to sell to profitable segements and people who cop an attitude and can install it themselves aren't profitable. Take Business 101 and Humility 101. Most people do not want to take the time to learn something new because most people do not have enough time in their lives to do the things that way to do, much less reinvent their way of working with a computer.

Need?

[bluewee]

Do you really need Linux on a PDA? it seems kinda redundant. I do agree it is better to use opensource programs, because you know what is actually going on, but I would bet that the Prop. software that HP, palm, Sony created is just as good, or better(people's jobs depend on how good the software is).

Re:But still not ready for the desktop eh

[AresTheImpaler]

look at handhelds.org there is a way to back up your rom so that if you don't like linux on it you can bring pocket pc back. But I'm not sure, I have never done that...

Re:But still not ready for the desktop eh

[mypalmike]

There is a bootloader which can load either CE or Linux. The bootloader takes up a relatively small amount of flash, so once that's in place, you can reinstall CE or Linux as much as you want. It's not exactly a point-and click procedure, but it's not too hard.

In development...

[mirko]

Some inside info about Cacko Linux : We are about to port our environment to others PDA such as ARM based Palm..
So, if you think Qtopia is too slow or Zaurus/iPaq are too expensive... Wait a moment :)

So where is this company located again? Redmond?

[LittleBigScript]

linux version 2.4.18 initially, with updates planned soon....

OpenZaurus 3.3.5 is already based on the 2.4.18 kernel but it some major problems with recognizing compact flash cards inserted after boot-time. Now, the 2.6.1 kerenel ported to the Zaurus would impress me, byt Lycoris is more interested in forking and thus gaining market interest than contribution to an excellent, but understaffed (four volunteers!) openzaurus.

According to Cheek, DL-PPC adds customizations to the OpenZaurus, Opie, and other open source project code bases that improve usability....

Meaning that they use everyone else's code, but add a "feauture" to make the background changable. Unfortuanatly they didn't recieve the memo. This can already be done easily.

DL-PPC will include the Samba-based Lycoris "Network Browser,".It's Opie-based PIMs will support synchronization with Lycoris's Desktop operating systems...

So they are adding nothing that isn't already there, but featuring their Logo will give the Zaurus credibility? Samba has been ported, as has Apache.

DL-PPC will support a variety of text-input methods...

It does already! Ever seen a Zaurus?. It possesses a thumbboard and the Qtopia enviroment has a Jot-styled input screen and a virtual keyboard, and even more will be found in the Opie fork.

What is it that Lycroris is contributing back to Linux? I must have missed that. They seemed more keen on hyping the idea or porting linux to a linux platform.

This inspired me to do Opie on iPaq yesterday

[Anonymous Coward]

This Lycoris announcement looked cool so I went out and looked around for similar solutions.

I ended up putting Familiar Linux and the Opie environment on my iPaq 3850 ( I backed up the wince ROM just in case I want to go back ) It looks exactly like the screenshots for Lycoris and I got it for free.

Not only that but I can run almost all the Zaurus software out there and there's plenty (see zaurus software index website and others...) I can get a shell on my iPaq, use the Internet over ppp through my desktop via the iPaq cradle (I don't have any fancy networking h/w for my iPaq) ssh in, use my Compaq microkeyboard, rotate the screen, get a better and crisper display of text, have a media player that supports more formats, use my SD cards (3800 series only) scp files over with no stupid Activesync installation and all that crap, install and remove software with ipkg, update the whole system (which is debian-like) with ipkg update; ipkg upgrade, have a konqueror web browser with multiple magnifications that actually work and look good... etc.

I think Linux unleashes a lot more of the power of my 206mhz iPaq than PPC Windows ever did.

Now if only Opie had A DECENT WORDPROCESSOR THAT WORKED!!!!!!! Someone, please! Something that would read/write Openoffice files would be amazing.

Could be a good thing

[tsackett]

Lycoris Pocket PC (or whatever they end up calling it after the dust settles) could be a good alternative to the standard Zaurus ROM from Sharp.

If Lycoris can put together a system that looks good, runs on all of the different Zaurus models (OpenZaurus is not yet usable on the Zaurus 5600), and has a decent Personal Information Manager that syncs seamlessly with a decent PIM on the Linux desktop machine, that would be a good thing.

I picked up a Zaurus 5600 from Amazon a couple weeks ago, hoping that the wide variety of open source and free software projects for it would allow me to put together exactly the kind of PDA I wanted. However, it turns out that a lot of these projects are in, at best, beta phase. Or they don't really run on the 5600. Or they don't work with each other. You usually don't find out about any of these problems until you spend a few hours trying to get something to work. It doesn't make sense to complain about free software created by a community of volunteers, but it's been a frustrating experience.

Re:So where is this company located again? Redmond

[h0tblack]

I think one of the main reasons that people are having to stick with the 2.4.6 and 2.4.18 kernels is because of the binary-only SD driver from Sharp.

Re:Linux

[JabberWokky]

As for the kernel, you do the same thing as if WinCE crashes - hit the reset. Hit the hard reset and your system goes back to default. Windows is not some sort of magic system; Linux on these systems works pretty much the same way.

I doubt anyone would like to use linux on their PDA.. at least from the quality of the PIM apps i see on the desktop.

I installed Linux to upgrade the PIM apps from the very limited ones on my iPaq. Opie provides a much nicer environment for standard ToDo, Calendar, Contacts and Notes. WinCE provides nicer voice recording and some interesting input methods. I'd rather have the better apps that I'll use regularly. DateBk5 on my Palm III still blows them out of the water... but I can emulate Palm on Linux.

The nicest thing is that I can use PyQt on it. I can create a form with QtDesigner, do the typical GUI dev cycle of clicking on the widgets and writing Python code for what it should do when it is clicked, scrolled, loaded, etc. The whole thing is converted into two .py files (one for the UI, one for the main code), and I can copy it over to my iPaq... really fast and easy custom app creation. Custom databases, little useful apps... the kind of uses that make PDAs really shine.

if you cant take down a meeting time or a note and sync it with your PC.

Between DrawPad and Kate, I can take notes much easier than on any PDA. I use Palm Grafitti for input when doing lots of text, or DrawPad to made quick scribbles. As for meeting times, you hit the Calendar button, pick the date and go... the same as every other PDA. Syncing is quick, easy and works fine.

I use unison to sync, but that's because my entire home LAN uses unison to backup all systems to a file server. Everything that appears on the network (and is configured as one of "my" systems) gets automatically synced if it hasn't in the past 24 hours. With my iPaq, that's right after it hits the cradle and is automatically assigned an IP address.

That's a bit more difficult to set up than the default sync (which has a nice GUI interface on the PDA), but I mention it because that's the kind of thing that admins in large office networks would give their eyeteeth to be able to do. As soon as an employee's PDA goes in a cradle, it is backed up to the server... the entire thing. If they run over it with their car, they simply go to the Help Desk, fill out a loss form, and get a new PDA... configured precisely as their old one was, every app, every note, every setting, identical.

--
Evan

iSync'ability ?

[mirko]

Do this OS support SyncML (in order to be able to iSync it with OSX) ?
I think this could be THE reason I'd buy it.

Why Linux?

[R.Caley]

Maybe I'm missing something, but ISTM that unixoid OSs were not designed for this kind of role. Eg power management is just an afterthough on such systems, and size has never been a high priority.

Same can be said for windoze too of course.

What's the battery life like on one of these things? Psions go for 10s of hours (and run off normal batteries, which is a huge advantage).

Actually, of all the small computers which have come and gone, the only one which really made me go `I want one' was the (now deceased) rex. When my Psion 5 started looking it's age I was tempted to get a very small laptop and a rex. The buggers had stopped making them.

Re:Why Linux?

[BlortHorc]

Maybe I'm missing something, but ISTM that unixoid OSs were not designed for this kind of role. Eg power management is just an afterthough on such systems, and size has never been a high priority.


Minor quibble, but given UNIX was first developed on computers with a mighty 128KB of RAM, I think you may be slightly confused regarding the design priorities of "unixoid OSs".

I do know the first system I ran linux on was a 486/33SX (feel that emulated FPU goodness) with 4MB, and I suspect that in terms of the "four yorkshiremen" scale, that qualifies as somewhat more piss than whatever your generic ARM powered PDA does.

Hell, in those days I had to calculate my XF86Config ModeLines by hand to get something my PissWeak(Tm) PVGA card could grok, and even then, I'd only drag it out in case of Direst Emergency (if you've ever used X on an old system like that with drives that whistled as they worked, you'll know what I mean).

You young whippersnappers these days, I tell ya, it's PDA this, slow as dog shit that, *grumble*, onion in my belt, usw.

386 and 486

[macemoneta]

I wish someone would package this environment for old 386 and 486 systems.

Linux has been available for PDAs for years

[tmbg37]

I don't see why everyone is so excited about this Lycoris Linux distribution. I mean, Linux has been avaiable for iPaqs and Zauruses for years. The Familiar Linux Distribution for iPaqs is in version 0.7.2, and is in my opinion very stable already. And for Zauruses, not only does it run Linux out of the box, but the OpenZaurus project has provided an alternative for users. Both of these projects already have Opie, a Qtopia look-a-like as an option for desktop environments, but you can also use GPE as well.

Re:So where is this company located again? Redmond

[treke]

Used to be the case, but not really any more. The handhelds.org CVS has the source for an open source SD driver that is modular enough to support different devices. OpenZaurus's kernel guy has most of the info he thinks he needs to do a new SD driver, but what is really lacking is the time to do the ports to 2.6 for the different devices.

He has started working on it, and you actually can the C7x0 devices to "boot" 2.6.somethingorother on a serial console, but the flash and fb drivers still haven't been ported yet.