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KDE 3.2.0 Released
Quique writes "KDE 3.2 has just been released. The official announcement is available at the KDE site and the source tarballs are being replicated to the mirrors. There are already binary packages for a few distributions. Besides the usual bugfixes and new features, this release has been highly optimized and runs way faster than previous versions. This is a good opportunity for Windows users to migrate to a free desktop."
KDE 3.2 is a real step forward. Well worth installing. If they only could provide easy access (apt/yum) to binary packages for RH9 or Fedora C1...
Cheers
KdenLive/PIAVE - non-linear video editing
Great Job !!
so be kind, and delay it from the 'hords of slashdot' ... atleast for a few hours...
I don't claim I know more than I know, and if you know you know more than I know, then by all means, let me know.
So, your desktop-usage consists mostly of starting, restarting, restasting and restarting you GUI over and over again? You can't wait for few seconds for the GUI to start?
To each on his own I guess...
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
Same for me : Cubase would not run under Linux.
I since switched to OSX which is a nice compromise between hackability and mainstreamdom.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
How often do you have to start it? Shouldn't you be more concerned about performance once it's running? And what's another 15 seconds on top of a linux boot anyway?
:)
Not to diss your choice of XFCE4, though - that's my choice, albeit on 1997-era hardware
L
If it still takes some 15 secs to startup even on high-end machines, it'll not be faster enough for me.
XFCE for me...
Being that KDE (GNOME, etc) have different aims than that of XFCE, I think its totally resonable that KDE and friends take a bit longer to load.
Sunny Dubey
I see a lot of foolish comments about not being able to do anything useful with a KDE desktop. the only thing you cannot do just as well with kde3.2 compared to winXP is play games. thats it people, nothing more no arguements accepted. so in the corperate areana windows can put it's head between it's knees and kiss it's ass goodbye
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
It's included for free with the Windows kernel.
Correction, [windows desktop] is included at no extra cost with the Windows kernel. It's not free, you have to pay for it if you plan on acquiring it legitimately.
Your 'bastardisation' of the word free shows that the world of advertising has been a complete success. "Buy one get one free!" No, you get two for the price of one, but one is not free. You still have to pay. Anything which requires an exchange of something is not free.
So, technically, you're using a bastardised definition of the word "free".
Also, it's worth noting that Free Software is a term (note the capitalisation) used in relation to, well, Free Software. So the usage of the word Free in the context of Free Software like KDE makes perfect sense and is not a bastardisation of the word "free", but more alike the usage of a word describing a product. Like Windows: I have lots of windows but I never use Windows.
Free Gamer - Free games list and commentary
How about a shout-out to everyone who contributed to the development of KDE! Thanks for your fine work guys, keep it up!
Bingo. Unless it actually runs on Windows, or it has some emulation in it that actually runs _all_ Windows programs without hassles, I can't see the point in switching from Windows to KDE.
;) That'll do Linux a world of good.
Let's face it, the only value of an OS or computer is running the software _I_ want to run. And the desktop is little more than a very superficial interface to the OS.
The whole thing is like saying "now, see, we can give you a dashboard for your car that looks exactly like an airplane dashboard." Uh. And the point is? It's still a car, and it still can't do what an airplane does. Nor viceversa.
A car is for people who need a car. An airplane is for people who need an airplane. They're not (yet) completely interchangeable. Think about it a bit.
The same applies to Linux vs Windows. Repeat after me: putting a Windows desktop manager on Linux, doesn't make it a Windows substitute. And viceversa, putting CDE (or a clone thereof) on Windows, doesn't make it a Unix workstation.
But even if we're discussing desktop makeups: does Linux now have CUA guidelines? Did people start actually sticking to the same behaviour for their widgets? Did people actually start testing their interfaces with 100 dpi fonts? Etc.
Because changing the desktop means very little, when Joe Average's day still involves dealing with 10 different programs, using 6 fundamentally different widget sets, 8 fundamentally different keyboard shortcut sets, and 4 different ways of even persisting his preferences.
A lot of Windows's or a Mac's appeal doesn't come just from the way the desktop looks, nor from their particular flavour of widgets. It comes from the fact that everything running on it has the same standardized interface.
The way a Windows scroll bar or file open dialog works isn't perfect. (I actually prefer the Motif scroll bars.) But you can learn to use it _once_ and then apply that knowledge instinctively in all programs, from now until kingdom come.
Basically what I'm saying is: KDE is good and fine, and optimizing it doesn't hurt, but... IMHO what would really do Linux a world of good is enforcing a consistent interface across _all_ widget sets. Drag the good Qt, KDE, Gnome, Motif/Lesstif, GTK, etc people into a room, and don't let them out until they can aggree on a common interface standard
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
How old is the distro that you tried? I'm using a USB mouse just fine, and I'm running SuSE 7.3! (Read: ancient version no longer even supported) Back when I installed it the first thing it did was detect the mouse automatically. Plus my very new HID complient gamepad worked, all in a 1 1/2+ year old distro.
KDE STILL refuses to work with my optical mouse. No endless editing of config files has fixed this.
Methinks your distro sucks the dogs' balls.
I am not going to write a chipset driver to get this OS to work.
No need to. USB has been part of the kernel for years.
Switching to a P/S 2 mouse fixes the problem, but I am not willing to swap mice just to run Linux.
Fair enough, get a recent distro. If my distro that shipped with the 2.4.10 kernel can use it, then your distro either sucks or is horribly outdated.
Maybe in 5 years Linux and KDE will be good enough to supplant my XP install.
KDE doesn't touch the hardware, nor is it really part of the OS. It's just another program, one of a very VERY large number of programs thrown together to create the great clusterfuck that is a thousand different distrobutions. If you try Linux on one distro and it sucks, then it may just be that your distro sucks. Try another distro. Hell, go grab a copy of Gnoppix or SuSE live eval or something, I'm willing to bet that your mouse will work perfectly from the get-go.
And who's the schmuck that modded the parent as troll? Due to GNU/Linux's design (kernel from here, compiler from there, toss that desktop on it, etc), such issues are not only going to happen but are bound to be semi-common. That's not a troll, that's a guy who tried it, couldn't use a basic part of his system, got confused by how "not like Windows" it is, and said "screw it". People with such experiences not only exist, but are very common. Either way, welcome to Slashdot, where anything remotely negative about our favorite little son of a Fin is automatically a troll.
KDE does not distribute binaries. Complain to your Windows distributor.
The world will end in 5 minutes. Please log out.
Maybe your purpose in using a computer is running Windows apps, most people want to get their work done.
Let's face it, the only value of an OS or computer is running the software _I_ want to run. And the desktop is little more than a very superficial interface to the OS.
The value of an OS is letting you do what you want to do. That may or may not involve running specific software.
The whole thing is like saying "now, see, we can give you a dashboard for your car that looks exactly like an airplane dashboard." Uh. And the point is? It's still a car, and it still can't do what an airplane does. Nor viceversa.
Huh? KDE is not trying to be Windows, its trying to be a useful desktop. One factor in being a good desktop is being able to look like Windows, so that many people will find it less difficult to switch - but its not its purpose.
The same applies to Linux vs Windows. Repeat after me: putting a Windows desktop manager on Linux, doesn't make it a Windows substitute. And viceversa, putting CDE (or a clone thereof) on Windows, doesn't make it a Unix workstation.
KDE is not a Windows(TM) desktop manager.
A good desktop is a substitute for Windows.
;) That'll do Linux a world of good.
But even if we're discussing desktop makeups: does Linux now have CUA guidelines? Did people start actually sticking to the same behaviour for their widgets? Did people actually start testing their interfaces with 100 dpi fonts? Etc.
In the Free Software/Open Source world - such tests come for free. People use the software with all sorts of configurations and report problems.
Not to mention Qt (And other modern toolkits), unlike Windows, uses pure logical layouts and handles font sizes/etc very well.
Because changing the desktop means very little, when Joe Average's day still involves dealing with 10 different programs, using 6 fundamentally different widget sets, 8 fundamentally different keyboard shortcut sets, and 4 different ways of even persisting his preferences.
That's exactly the purpose of KDE. Creating a consistent GUI to do all those things. KDE is slowly getting rid of the GUI concept of "application", integrating capabilities to run software in contexts of all apps and windows (KPart/IOSlave technologies). KDE also has a very consistent default keyboard shortcut setup.
KDE is not about Gtk+ integration and consistency, but about internal integration and consistency (even though some projects to similarize do exist).
A lot of Windows's or a Mac's appeal doesn't come just from the way the desktop looks, nor from their particular flavour of widgets. It comes from the fact that everything running on it has the same standardized interface.
KDE is now more uniform and consistent than Windows and the vast amounts of inconsistent 3rd party apps. As for Macs, I haven't tried - but its probably hard to force UI guidelines/etc on 3rd party companies as you can force them with Free Software (simply modify any inconsistent application to follow the guidelines).
The way a Windows scroll bar or file open dialog works isn't perfect. (I actually prefer the Motif scroll bars.) But you can learn to use it _once_ and then apply that knowledge instinctively in all programs, from now until kingdom come.
Oh, I haven't seen my KDE scrollbar changing across applications.
Basically what I'm saying is: KDE is good and fine, and optimizing it doesn't hurt, but... IMHO what would really do Linux a world of good is enforcing a consistent interface across _all_ widget sets. Drag the good Qt, KDE, Gnome, Motif/Lesstif, GTK, etc people into a room, and don't let them out until they can aggree on a common interface standard
You can always use themes and such to make Gtk+/KDE look and behave similar. However, you're really supposed to be able to get along with just one of the toolkits - not having to worry about such inter-toolkit consistency.
Wouldn't Windows users have to migrate to Linux first? Unless I missed something, KDE is not a desktop environment that replaces the Windows GUI on Windows boxen.
Considering that the vast majority of computer users are going to barf at the thought of reinstalling their OS & that most are doing very well just to apply a "recovery disk" to restore their system to its original, store-bought state, I don't think that a pretty new desktop for Linux will do much to encourage the average Windows user to migrate to Linux.
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)
Maybe your purpose in using a computer is running Windows apps, most people want to get their work done.
Indeed. Windows does _one_ thing very well: running Windows software. It's damn good at it. And there's one helluva lot of Windows software out there.
And all I'm saying is: before taking a running leap to conclusions like "now more people should switch to Linux", please also base it on whether they'll still be able to run their old software. Or a reasonable clone thereof. Not just on how the KDE desktop looks.
That kind of leaping to conclusions is really the only thing I have a problem with there.
The value of an OS is letting you do what you want to do. That may or may not involve running specific software
Unless what you want to do is heating the room, or such, it does involve running software. Even if all you do with your computer is compiling the kernel and running a proxy for your home network, you're already depending on some very specific software: gcc, make, squid, etc.
Switching to a system which doesn't have those, nor something which is _very_ close to a clone, would mean a lot of inconvenience. Even if just for the learning curve. Even if the desktop was an exact clone of your KDE desktop, these programs would still be pain enough.
In the Free Software/Open Source world - such tests come for free. People use the software with all sorts of configurations and report problems.
Not to mention Qt (And other modern toolkits), unlike Windows, uses pure logical layouts and handles font sizes/etc very well.
I'll admit that Qt does handle font sizes very well. Other toolkits and programs don't. And much as I'll want to believe that every possible configuration was already tested and debugged by millions of volunteers, in practice for most programs... well, they must have been tested and debugged by people who love 5 pixel tall fonts ;)
However, you're really supposed to be able to get along with just one of the toolkits - not having to worry about such inter-toolkit consistency.
That is a good and noble ideal, but I just can't see it happening any time soon. Most often than not, whatever program I really wanted to use, chances were that it used a whole different toolkit. Sometimes its very own.
E.g., the Gimp was still based on GTK last time I've tried it. If there's a KDE clone or port, it must be newer than that. E.g., sometimes the easiest to use for what I needed (e.g., just making a dumb dungeon map on a square grid) was xpaint, and AFAIK it's neither Qt nor Gnome.
E.g., while both KDE and Gnome come with their own terminal apps, the one that worked the best (or was the easiest for me to get working) with some apps was xterm.
E.g., Netscape 4 always was a Motif application. (Yes, I know, I should have used Mozilla. Never worked that well for me, though. And it also used its own widgets, it wasn't Qt.)
I.e., it's not that your KDE scrollbar changed between KDE apps. It's that at the same time I'd have apps on the screen with: KDE scrollbars, GTK scrollbars, Motif scrollbars, plain old xterm scrollbars, and some 2-3 custom scrollbars. Each acting differently.
I.e., again, this is not against KDE or Linux as such. I'm just saying that it would be nice if enough people could sit together (even if virtually on a mailing list) and work out a common set of guidelines.
Just, you know, a wish.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Then what's the deal with all those viruses?
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
Your points are entirely realistic. If there is no reason to switch an existing computer from Windows (if the switch will inconvenience the user more than Windows already does), then it shouldn't be done.
;-)
For many here, the effort is the reward itself. This is not an argument that will win many converts from Windows. For others, who have the ability and attitude to accept change very quickly and not be locked into a set way of doing things, making the change may very well be worth it, as they may find (at least I do) that I get things done faster using Linux. No, not the tweaking part (that can consume days at a time!), but the everyday tasks that I use my computer for. But this is STILL a very small cross section of the total desktop users out there.
The fact remains, however, that Linux, KDE, etc. provide a very good desktop experience once installed properly, and it is free. These may not be good enough reasons for virtually anyone to convert over an existing machine, but it sure sounds like a recipe that will lead to pre-installations on new computers. THIS is where all this effort will eventually bear fruit. Corporate environments (where security, customizability, and lack of vendor lock-in are becoming big pluses) are where Free software will certainly continue getting more wins. Plus, a fully functional PC that can be sold without the Windows tax can start to look attractive to home users, too.
Think new PCs, not existing ones. Still, this won't be common anytime soon (I'd say at least a couple more years) before your average computer user will seriously be comfortable buying a new machine with something other than Windows on it. But it will come in due time.
In the meantime, don't let the trolls bother you. For your needs (and frankly most people's needs), Windows is still the correct OS for your computer. Thankfully, this will not be the case for much longer
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
Right....sure thing. I pity the poor fools who modded this "insightful."
1)It is true that a "typical user" is not ready to install, configure, and administrate a Linux computer. However, they aren't ready to install, configure, and administrate a Windows computer either. Now...given a properly installed/configured Windows system as it arrives from Dell, most users will be fine. And given a properly installed/configured Linux system as it arrives from one of the Linux hardware vendors, or from your local geek (assuming he/she's good) most users will be similarly fine.
I know this because I have set up several "typical users" on Linux systems, and they are fine.
2)Also, Mr. Insight, did you pause to consider the audience for the statement that now might be a good time to try a free desktop? You know, the slashdot audience?! This was not a statement directed at "typical users."
Given a choice between free speech and free beer, most people will take the beer.