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PowerBook Performance for Java Development?
brasten wants to get to the core of this issue: "I'm in the market for a new development notebook. I would like to jump into the Apple world and pick up a PowerBook. However, compiling very large Java applications of course takes some time, and so raw processing speed is a factor. I have been unable to find solid data on how fast a 1.33GHz PowerBook runs against the modern x86-based notebooks. Does anybody have any information that could help me compare?"
we did some tests on this two years ago and the 1ghz ppc came up on top, about 30% behind the fastest x86. this is probably because the ppc has a larger l1 cache and a better fpu (java uses exclusively floats, even when you declare type integer).
However that was 2 years ago and these days a x86 machine is probably faster (and cheaper if this is a concern.)
I would say that they aren't exactly speedy in compiling Java apps. I have noticed that even with small programs they can be compiled quicker on x86. I can't comment on the top of the range models but my 867Mhz G4 12" Powerbook does noticably take longer.
In saying this, I *much* prefer developing on Mac OS X compared to Windows. The document centric layout and general usability of OS X makes the whole process a lot more enjoyable.
At the end of the day I'd go into an Apple store and ask to test one out. Try it with some big project and judge for yourself.
Once you Mac, you'll never go back.
Neither my PowerBook G4 17", nor 12" offer break-neck speeds. My tests from mid last year concluded it can't out perform a generic PC laptop at the same price point. However it's a platform developed by smart developers for smart developers. Coming from either UN*X or Windoze, after a play, you're gonna oh-so-want one.
PS... You'll want all the RAM you can afford.
I work for a very large international company as a senior java developer. When I decided to take a sabbatical for master studies, I had to turn in my IBM A31p.
Between semesters, I returned to work and since my employer was unwilling to buy a new machine for just 2 months (my laptop was reassigned, they offered me a P3 desktop for a roaming job), I brought in my personal PB17, which I bought for my studies. I already knew, that it's a fine Java development platform, but I was unsure about a large J2EE project in a Windows company.
Integration went very smoothly (Of course it runs Exchange, yes Ms Office no prob) and even Bea WebLogic (assign the right jdk) and Together/J was a no-brainer.
Eclipse is a tad slower, but after getting used to it (key assignments and such), I'm just as productive as on my old Windows Laptop.
Summary: If you like Unix and need a laptop, there is no way around a PowerBook. Integration into the Windows world is easy. All the Java tools are available and run w/o problems at acceptable speed. Just make sure you have enough RAM, 1G is minimum for a Java-Pro.
Enjoy, I don't think you ever want to go back. Powerbooks are addictive.
The G4 can't win the battle against modern x86 processors anymore.
But on the other side, how often do you compile a whole project? While you develop, there are mostly only very few files changed. Compiling them then is only a matter of seconds. On every platform.
The much more important question is, if Mac OS X and the applications can speed up your developing process? If you saved 10 seconds by faster editing the source files, you can spent 5 seconds for the longer compilation time and save 5 seconds for your personal recreation ;)
I've recently bought a 12" iBook G4 800MHz, and it preforms directly like a Pentium III 800MHz with recent Java versions, which I found out using a Java dhrystones benchmark program to test it. The iBook scores 97.8 where the PC scores 99.2.
:-(
I've tested a lot of different platforms with that program, and it seems to follow SpecInt/Float benchmarks pretty well, if you look on how it compares to different systems, eg. a Sun SparcStation 5 scores around 4.9, making it 20 times slower than a Pentium III 800MHz PC, which also SpecInt/Float benches show.
So the PB at 1.33GHz will run like a PIII 1.33GHz, and you'll have to make up with yourself if thats sufficient for you. A P4 2.6GHz with HT scores around 216.
Also, if you decide to buy an iBook, be aware that it CAN'T run with an external monitor in any higher resolution than it's internal LCD, something my old Dell latitude from 1997 does with no problems at all
I don't know if that is true for the PB, but it sucks bigtime. I'm very disapointed with my iBook on that fact, along with some other assembly issues that other people with iBook G4 also seems to have.
If you're going to spend most of your time in Eclipse, I'd save the extra bucks and go for a PC.
-H
*shock* News flash! In about 6 months to a year, there will be faster computers. Who would have expected that??
Combination - fun iPhone puzzling
P'books can happily display a very high resolution desktop on an external display, and will properly span the desktop over the two displays.
If you're willing to do hairy firmware hacks, this feature can be added to an iBook as well, but I won't point you at references, as I'm disinclined to help you bust your iBook.
Nice to see the final sentence though: I'd save the extra bucks and go for a PC. Yes, iBooks are cheaper than the equivalent PC laptop, and P'Books are generally the same or less than the PC equivalents.
We developed a fairly large (~80,000 lines of executable code) WebObjects application. Our dev machines are all 15" PowerBooks in the 800 to 1GHz range.
Compile performance is fine, but more importantly, it's always improving. It's 50% faster that it was a year ago on the same machine. Xcode's predictive compiling only works with GCC for now, but if there's a way to stick it on javac or jikes, Apple will do it.
Apple likes Java. They have a vested interest in it via WebObjects - which is the back end for iTunes and the whole Apple online store. 100% Java. They're also getting into JBoss and other Java related open source projects.
The development tools are really nice, and you *will* get hooked on the PowerBook. We've got two 2.8 GHz Windows boxen available. Nobody uses 'em... except SETI.
The powerbook is perfect for java development or any development for that matter, why? Directly from http://developer.apple.com/tools/macosxtools.html:
Working Fast
The distributed build feature leads Xcode's performance technology lineup. Using Rendezvous, Xcode can farm out your project's compilation to idle desktop machines or even an Xserve build farm, drastically reducing compile time. Enabling near-instant turnaround for bug fixes, Xcode's Fix and Continue feature lets developers change code while the app continues to run.
Rendezvous, hard to spell, a pleasure to use.
This is very interesting.
:)
One of our contractors at work was saying to me the other day that when I/O is taken into consideration, they're seeing speed on their PowerBooks outclass their AMD MP servers... they narrowed it down to Apple's implementation of the JDK just doing a very good job moving large amounts of data around.
The real trouble here is that it's so hard to say "platform X" is faster, when it really depends on the application being executed. You might find that the PowerBook is a great machine for your first project, but your second project which is less I/O and more CPU intensive doesn't run as well.
I tend to think that ultimately, you can never have the fastest platform at -all- the tasks you want to perform when developing, so the best bet is to buy what you're most comfortable using and be aware of the strengths of your target platform when developing. With Java being cross-platform, this is more difficult because you may be deploying on a range of end-user machines.
Sigh... the perils of an open world.
bash-3.00$ uname -a
SunOS panda 5.10 Generic sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-2
It was reported that Apple was having trouble getting g5s into powerbook because of the immense heat dissipation and power consumption. But with the 90nm version of the chip, these problems *should* be solved.
IBM is already claiming a massive power cut. Check The Register. My advice? Certainly wait for the next product cycle, and if you can, wait for a second revision g5.
Oobob
i work for a large ISP in a team that builds a comprehensive portal that receives over 6 million unique page views in any 24 hour period. it's written in Java and runs in a Java Servlet Container (open-source)). Since Apple came out with the TiBook in 2001 and OS 10.1, my boss and i were the first ones to switch to powerbooks and OS X in the department.
Jump forward in late 2003, i now have a 1.25Ghz 15" powerbook with 1Gig of RAM and 80GB HD, and let me tell you, there is no end to what this thing can do. it will complete this mechanism that goes thru our whole JSP web application tree, converts each .jsp into .java then compiles into java byte code in about the same amount of time the fastest x86 laptops do. tho i dont have precise numbers. might be faster, might be slower.
while i understand your main focus is on raw power, i would urge you to consider productivity as a factor, based on your operating system's stability, security, and features. XP has greatly evolved in many aspects, and any good engineer can deal with just about any OS. With that said, OSX goes the extra mile to make your overall computing experience much more powerful, especially with Panther.
Expose, Fast User switching, XCode, Apple's own implementation of X11 (comes on the panther CD, it's *F A S T*, GIMP loads litteraly in under 5 seconds) so u can run any open-source app you want. Terminal.app for crying out loud. forget cygwin under windows, here you have a true UNIX bash shell. or tcsh. or ksh. it's all there. all the command-line utilities from the Unix and Linux world are all there. the cmd-line can also trigger things to happen in the finder/aqua-world: "open" could open a directory in a find window, or a file in which ever application created it.
let's talk about address book, calendar and mail. You may import all your Yahoo, Mozilla, Netscape contacts into AddressBook.app. Calendar.app lets you subscribe to calendars, accept .ics invitations, publish your own calendar, define multiple coexisting calendars. Safari's bookmarks interface will show u URLs defined in your AddressBook. Mail.app will read information from AddressBook to show email addresses as clickable "People Objects" and add new email addresses to your address book directly from an email you're reading. You can drag any picture from the web or iPhoto, or your desktop to an AddressBook entry, where it lets you zoom the pic in or out, crop, position, pictures associated with contacts show-up in Mail.app when u receive email from them. They also show-up in iChat.app. All those applications are very simple yet VERY powerful and are also well-defined open APIs any software developer can interact with. For example EarthLink lets you sync your Mac OS X AddressBook with their own online address book, which greatly facilitates email whitelisting to work with their highest-level CR-based spam-blocking feature (lower-level spam-blocking is Bayesian-ish filtering based on email content). Mail.app comes with its own adaptive Bayesian spam filtering that becomes smarter and smarter overtime as you "train it". Mine has become *extremely* effective at blocking spam, and i can tell you this is a definite productivity enhancer. Then there is iSync. A true marvel. iSync is also an open API to sync multiple devices over just about any port or conduit. Most PDA-ish devices and Phone manufacturers have made their devices compatible with iSync, and more are coming on the market every day. Your Calendars, Contacts, Bookmarks can all be sync'ed via iSync to any number of devices WITHOUT installing a single piece of software that may have shipped with such devices. this is HUGE. Currently i'm using iSync to sync an iPod (bookmarks, address book, calendar, over FireWire), a Sony Ericsson t610 (over bluetooth, built-in all the Aluminum powerbooks, including mine), my .MAC account (calendar, address book, bookmarks, over HTTP/webdav i think). I could buy a Palm Pilot and just sy
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