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Dealing With Copyright Online: Porn v. Music

zzled writes "The New York Times (registration required, etc.) has an article on the porn industry's take on filesharing / copyright infringement. 'Many companies that distribute X-rated material say they do not worry too much about consumers sharing among themselves; they often unleash their lawyers only when someone is trying to profit by copying their goods and trying to sell them.' ... The article isn't particularly brilliant or insightful, but was an interesting read, especially with the explicit comparison to the approach taken by the music and movie industries."

15 of 340 comments (clear)

  1. The real math of filesharing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What most people seem unwilling to recognize is that there's a lot more factors to consider.

    without piracy:
    - Normal customer base (x)

    Most people think:

    with piracy:
    - Paying customers (x')
    - Pirates (y)

    The equation created is x' = x-y meaning piracy has cost you y sales. It's just not that simple. It's more like this:

    with piracy:
    - Paying customers (x')

    Pirates:
    - Those who would have payed if no crack was avaliable - (a)
    - Those who won't pay, but heard of it through piracy - (b)
    - "Try before you buy" who then buy - (c)
    - "Try before you buy" who decide it's not worth it - (d)
    - collectors who pirate, but don't use - (e)

    - New people refered/introduced to by pirates other than (a) - (y)
    - Those who won't/can't buy your program, but donate in other ways - (z)

    I'm not saying anything about anyone's morals, right or wrong, simply how their actions affect the developer.

    The equation now looks like this: x' = x - a + c + y + z*(whatever ratio you consider these donations to be worth)

    Note that b, d and e won't pay no matter what, and so are simply free advertising, and not a lost sale.

    So the only thing those people could cost you is an injury to your pride. Not such a bad thing in my books, perhaps even a good thing. Pride can be quite a detriment.

    Also note, every group except x and d can bring more members to every group.

    The question is: Is a > c+y?
    (Ignoring z, since in most cases it can only be 0: How do you "donate" back to MS? Note this isn't a piracy problem, but rather companies refusing to accept the reality of the world: that these people exist.)

    In my experience, b, c and y are huge factors, while a is very minor, especially in the "shareware" arena where freeware competition is often abundant.

    1. Re:The real math of filesharing by Xenographic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, they're just saying that the RIAA lawyers are more likely to be slimeballs than porn site operators.

      Before, I'd have expected them to be about on par, but this article does make a rather convincing arguement...

    2. Re:The real math of filesharing by nautical9 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I agree, and I'll expand on your (y) category a bit with a personal example:

      I've been known to play with high-end graphics and sound packages for kicks. I'm certainly not a professional artist by any stretch, but do enjoy seeing what these packages can do. So instead of paying hundreds or thousands for them just to play, I downloaded them from a p2p app.

      Now a bit later, the small start-up I worked for needed some graphic work done for their web site, and I recommended they pick up a copy of the same program, since I had some semblence of familiarity with it and found it quite powerful.

      So, my company buys the product whereas they may not have, and I most certainly wouldn't have bought it for myself (too pricey). One sale because of piracy.

    3. Re:The real math of filesharing by dupper · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "If you can't lead the intellectuals, then at least lead the perverts. There are far more of them, and most of them are the intellectuals." - Unknown

    4. Re:The real math of filesharing by Genda · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I think that it's sad that people keep applying logic to behavior which is clearly not logical... it shows a certain disconnect with the circumstances at hand and is one of the great weaknesses of this community. Please get that the vast majority of people out there wouldn't know a logical response if it jumped up, and pimp slapped them for twenty hours straight.

      Anybody here ever heard of the Malayan Monkey Trap? It's a hollow log with a hole cut in it to the precise diameter of a monkey's empty hand. Next place a piece of fruit in the log. The first monkey to come along, will reach in and grab the fruit. The monkey being a monkey will die before letting go of that fruit. The hunter can now liesurly walk up to mister monkey and pack his ass into a nice little tote bag.

      What the movie and recording industry is doing is precisely the same on a global scale as poor mister monkey. They don't give a flying FSCK if they're cutting their own throats by employing draconian measures to control the flow of their IP. They see themselves as an endangered species. Worse, in their terror they intend to keep complete and absolute control over who can and who can't use their product under any and all circumstances. In the end, unless they can build a monolithic body of law and enforcement which;
      • Crushes all free flow of information,
      • Eliminates the free creation and distribution of art outside their purview, and
      • Makes illegal the holding of any IP, and/or any machine or method that allows the use of said IP,
      They are doomed to go away because the evolving technology will simply flow around them.

      We are witnessing how frantic survival behavior results in blood ceasing to flow to the higher brain functions. This is fight or flight mixed with pure primate greed... plain and simple. Please stop talking about logic... start talking about how one manages that which is fearful, angry, and irrational. We can expect to see a lot more if this kind of behavior in other areas of global human endeavor, so this should be a good place to practice.

      Genda Bendte

      "The Zen sig, I leave it to you, to bring the meaning..."
    5. Re:The real math of filesharing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The porn guys aren't hiding their real profits behind so many layers of creative accounting that they don't know whether they are making money or losing it on any given venture. They are good at running a business and making money at it.

      They know they have a product that people will buy. They know how to sell it. They also know that it has a limited shelf-life. They keep producing new content and selling it. Pretty straightforward stuff really.

    6. Re:The real math of filesharing by ScrewMaster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nope, one sale because of a minor bit of copyright infringement. But your point is still valid, and not only is it valid but is the reason why Microsoft backed off on its' "anti-piracy" efforts in China. What they want is mindshare, because they know very well that the infringer of today is the corporate purchasing agent of tomorrow.

      This goes a long way toward explaining why software producers the world over long ago came to terms with infringement by individuals. Technologically it is easy to copy-protect software media: so why don't they? Back in the 80's copy-protection schemes were the rule, not the exception (I know, I wrote and cracked enough of them.) The answers are a. such protection PISSES OFF LEGITIMATE CUSTOMERS which is a dumb idea in a competitive environment and b. would lose them free advertising that they couldn't buy at any price. Sure, while they might prefer that every single copy of their program executing upon any computer system anywhere in the world be paid for up front, enlightened businesses accept a certain level of copyright infringement as a cost of doing business, a cost that may have hidden benefits. Look at the recent Intuit Corporation debacle with Product Activation: it cost them so much business and so much face that they eliminated the activiation requirement and the president of the company issued a formal apology to Intuit's customers! Big mistake, Indy, big mistake!

      Another question. Why aren't there mass lawsuits by the likes of Microsoft, Adobe, and the rest against thirteen year old female Limewire users? I'll tell you why. It's because

      Now, when it comes to true piracy, the selling of bootleg copies for profit -or- the mass utilization of un-paid-for software in a corporate environment ... that's a very different matter. Software vendors and U.S. Copyright law take a very dim view of such things.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  2. Got Porn? by super_sekrit · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sounds like the porn industry is aware of their most successful marketing tool (Yeah, I said "tool"). I would not be suprised if Larry Flint is a major telecom stock holder. Few things drive the demand for bandwidth like a 30 nothing with an erection.

    1. Re:Got Porn? by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The porn industry has actually been a driver for most video technologies used on the web today. They had the money to pay for them when they were first being made, and they have content that needs to be in the highest resolution available.

  3. Free samples are a must for content sellers by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Content companies, whatever kind they are, have to give away some of their content for free in order to be able to profit on their premium content.

    Consumers are not going to turn over money for content when they can't look inside the box to see what they're getting. If a content pusher doesn't have some free samples floating somewhere, there's no way they're going to be able to convince consumers that they've got the goods inside their sealed box. There has to be a free preview of some kind.

    You're never going to buy a CD from an artist you've never heard sing, therefore some form of advanced sampling has to exist. I guess the porn industry realizes that the same rules apply to them, and since they don't quite yet have the ability to broadcast on the radio, they're letting filesharing do the job for them.

  4. I suppose one could argue by Sabalon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I suppose you could argue that porn is a vice and that if they get a little for free then they'll get hooked and soon start paying for it.

    Though they seem to be giving it away - tons of web sites bill free porn for me, I just need to give them my credit card number to verify my age....yeah...

  5. Re:Pornographers are criminals already anyway by lambent · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Au contraire, mon frere.

    Adult entertainment is a well established film genre. Why isn't it an honest job? You wake up, drive to work, clock in, bust your hump (or hump your bust) all day, then go home, and cash your cheques.

    True, there is a seedier side to some of the fly by night operations, but that's also true of import electronics, major label clothing, accounting and the stock market, as we've seen in the last few years.

    Corrupting minds? Nobody is forcing anybody to watch porn. Actually, it's almost always segregated into its own section / room in a store to keep people from having to peruse it unwillingly. You have to willingly pay for it on TV.

    Take your religious fundamentalist dogma elsewhere.

    As for the illegality of piracy, go talk to the vice-president about halliburton. He wouldn't be doing all that if it were illegal, right?

  6. Porn addiction versus music addiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Does a 15-year-old get ostracized by their peers if they don't view the same porn as their buddies?

    Music has a powerful network effect, a fashion effect. With porn, you get what you want (if you want any). With music, it's important to listen to what your social class listens to, or you aren't cool.

    In that sense I think that popular music has a much more powerful hook than porn, because popular music hooks into the near-universal desire to be accepted by one's peer group.

    As far as movie addiction goes, I don't see people camping for two weeks at the porn shop for the next blockbuster to come out, the way they do for Star Wars.

  7. Re:Porno by mutewinter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Your comment really doesn't make much sense, Bangbus is a commercial site (sounds like you get your porn off of p2p heheh...) Anyways.. The thing is, today, theres a very fine line between homegrown and the big guys. There are alot of new millionaires today who started from scratch. Fuck that, the big guys barely even exist anymore. Just look at how the sales of the major magazines such as Playboy and Penthouse have collapsed in recent year. Alot of mags have had to fold. We have *alot* to learn from the porn industry today other than "they have been a driving force behind technology." If the Record and major media industries lacked the obscene amount of power they have today -- they'd already be gone, just like the big players in the porn industry. But guess what, suprise! Porn isn't dead, in fact its more alive and well than its ever been before in human history! Yes, those lobbyists who say "give us protection or such and such industry is going to die" are completely full of bullshit.

  8. Porn dealers WANT their content to be distributed by ChronosWS · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My partner is involved in still and streaming porn production, and according to him porn producers generally want the widest distribution of their content as possible. The deal with porn is that many of the images and videos produced are watermarked with the site name or other source identifier. Since people who consume porn have an effectively infinite appetite, they will continue looking for new porn after consuming their previous download. Whether the content was obtained legally or illegally, it probably has a watermark. If they liked the content, they are more likely, though not guaranteed, to look for additional content with the same source. For those who keep up to date with the latest porn, this will drive customers to their sites. The reason this works for online porn is that they have a well-established web presence and content which is easy to obtain relatively inexpensively. With the sheer volume of newsgroups and other media distributing legal and illegal copies of their content, they have a free and massive marketing apparatus. And again, given the near infinite appetite of the consumer base, even if a large percentage of their content is eventually pirated, there is always more being produced and consumers hungry for the newest stuff they haven't seen.