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Russian Rovers on the Moon
An Ignorant American writes "Perusing an Air & Space magazine the other day, I came across an article about Russian Moon Rovers during the space-race era. Thanks to my American science education, I had never heard of this feat. I asked around (friends and coworkers) and nobody else I've talked to has heard of them either. They were called 'lunokhod', and were the first of their kind. Unmanned, remotely operated rovers with basic instrumentation. Two were successfully landed on the Moon, each driving for many miles on the Moon's surface, returning tens of thousands of pictures. You can do a Google Search to start your education, or read what they have to say at Wikipedia on the subject (Wikipedia also has some external links.)"
I knew someone from Russia that swore that the russians had landed a man on the moon before the USA. She didnt belive me that they never got anyone on the moon...
In America we tend to forget that we are far from immune from 'evil socializing school.' I remember hearing about flying Russian dogs but never moon rovers. In fact, come to think of it I never knew we landed on the moon more than once until I saw Apollo 13.
It reminds us that our history books stilled talked about manifest destiny in grand terms until the mid 70s and how the genocide of indigenous peoples in our own country was conveniently brushed aside at the same time. Politicians here love to criticize Japanese teachings about WWII, but this is a good reminder that us Americans should temper our supposed superiority from time to time.
I also remember learning about the soviet rovers (and I'm only 25 so I wasn't even around when it happend). I would conjecture that though US public education can use improvement, we learn what we want to learn.
I went to American public schools.
I knew that Russians had put rovers on the moon.
School's job is not to tell you everything that's ever happened. School's job is to give you the tools you need to find things out. I got those tools. You did not. The fact that we both got an "American" education is irrelevant.
Quit blaming your ignorance on your teachers. Start paying more attention to what they had to work with.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
"sheer dumb luck?"
Yea, imagine that anything (for the time) cutting edge that would work as intended and not comming from the US, the horror !!!
Yer funny, will you be here all week ?
I did learn about these in school, but then I was always interested in space.
Try these questions.
What was the name of the first American lander on the moon?
The name of the first lander on Mars?
What was then name of the first US communications sattilite?
Most people know little about space.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
No disrespect to the soviet space pros, but I gotta call BS on 2 counts here:
1) On several occasions, launches were made LONG before ready, for political reasons, risking lives (not that this is a soviet only thing)
2) US failures were less publicized? We had rockets blowing up on LIVE TELEVISION, whilst the world found out about russian flights after splashdown 1/2 the time. The failures we only know about (until recently) because we found massive craters from exploded rockets.
The entire space race was an exercise in propaganda, anyway.
"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
Thats right! Blame YOUR ignorance on your government! Only dorks go to the library right!
If you had asked me, cold, if the russians had operated a rover on the moon, I probably would have said no. But, looking at that picture, I remember it vividly. As a kid, I was given a coffee table book called "The History of Flight" or some such (I think I still have the book). I remember thinking the picture of the Blackbird was just too cool and the "bathtub" probe too comical to actually be real.
"For example, the Civil War. Think for a second what you learned (or retained) about it and the causes for it."
The Civil War's main cause was slavery. Neoconfederates like to argue "No, it is state's rights!" but their argument crumbles when it is pointed out that the main "state's right" at issue was the right to have a slave state.
While I might not have the educational system of the USA (in a general sense) in the greatest regard (relax, I don't hold my own in high regard) this apparent lack of knowledge is rather general. I remember Lunokhod very well but I was a) very interest in spacial exploration when I was a kid and b) most of the books I had were from the USSR (or from Novosti Press editions in Portugal).
The thing is, most of my classmates were not even interest in the whole subject, so for them Lunokhod or Appolo didn't meant anything. In the USA it's obvious that people have knowledge (or should have, it is after all a great thing to be prouf of) about their own space missions, but beyond that it's really down to curiosity and personal interest.
I would argue that most knowledge of this kind that people have is not directly derived from taking classes at school but it's a result of curiosity and self-reading. And perhaps rightly so.
Believe me, if all you have to offer is what was fed to you at school, you've got a long way to go.
How about how to teach yourself?
Try reading, it works great. You can find these things called books at a place called a library.
In addition to teaching me how to use a library, my parents also bought a big pile of paper called an encyclopedia. The purchase includes yearly updates called yearbooks.
Then there's a yellow skinned magazine to which your parents or grandparents should have subscribed. It is called National Geographic. Issues go way back. Even though it is renowned mainly for its photography and printing quality, you should try reading it.
Be sure to subscribe before you have kids of your own.
Happy education!
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
Nobody cared!
They flew them in the 1970's, years after we had sent men to the moon. It wasn't seen as such a giant leap by that time.
If they had sent the rovers *before* we landed men, oh yeah, we'd have heard a lot more about them.
You are blaming the government? Either blame yourself, or blame lazy, fat-assed parents for letting their kids plop down in front of that video game every day after school.
Blame until you're blue in the face. Easy, isn't it?
Not only did I know about the Russian rovers, I had a set of Russian stamps with Soyuz and the rovers on them.
Thanks to *my* American education.
If you really lament your education, I think you should speak to your parents about their lack of involvement, and to yourself about your lack of curiosity.
Clear, Dark Skies
I wonder what else american public schools forgot to teach me...
Finance for protection from unwise debt.
Scientifically-grounded health and fitness.
Now, Americans are both fat and floating in their own debt.
What's with teaching state history, when teaching the present and future values of a loan is so much much more important towards quenching the blind ambition of college-bound students. It's not like people learn much from history--at least they don't show it (citing all the presidential debates from now until November).
Vote in November. You won't regret it.
So whoevers winner circle your'e in is the history you get :) I never heard about it either though.
I like things that are sweet and not things that are lame. --
You would do well to note that he said 'In the Soviet Block.' Ie, they were used by the Soviet gov't as propaganda. I think we can all believe that, considering that's what anyone who has ever gotten into space has done.
/you/ leave your reactionary rants to more germane topics; commanding conversants to 'shut the fuck up', while certainly demonstrative of a strong, take-no-prisoners American spirit, makes for poor discussion.
So I suggest
The Russians beat the US a very large number of firsts in space. First satellite, first animals in space, first human in space, first safe landings from orbit, first spacewalk, first to the land a probe on Mars, first probe to Venus, first orbital station, first flight around the moon.
The whole notion that the US "won the space race" is an interesting bit of spin. The fact is that the USSR notched up a very large number of firsts and could equally argue that they won the race if the finishing line hadn't been arbitraly decided to be a manned mission to the moon (and you can bet that it wasn't the Russians who decided that that was the only feat which mattered).
The US won the cold war over the USSR, or more to the point, outlasted the USSR, because the USSR ran out of money. Ultimately the Soviet system was a poor means of running a country, so they lost their super power status... but that hardly means they lost the space race.
As Napolean said: history is a lie made up by the victors.
Come play Moral Decay!
"...so rather than risking dnagerous human mission on the moon, they only sent robot, while astronauts stayed safely at home."
What's the point of exploring space if we don't go there? The Europeans (and unlucky Africans) that settled North and South America didn't send something to report back saying, "Oh, that's nice", they went there. The U.S., Canada, Mexico, and all of Central and South America as they are now is the result. Yes, negative ramifications abounded, but the collective we wouldn't be where we are today if it weren't for those circumstances. Humanity is stronger because we are spread out, and if we actually get the guts to try to go into space permanently we will be stronger still. I'd like to hope that all of the work we do isn't for nothing in the long haul. We're the most versatile living thing to come about in known history. Let's see what we can really do.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
It is rather suprising then, they only lost four people in or returning from space, all on Soyuz vehicles and in both cases while trying something that hasn't been done before (re-entry in first Soyuz flight and re-entry from first Salyut tour (read as Russian Space Station for all ignorant)).
Unless you count Nedelin Disaster their safety performance is better than 14 in Shuttle accidents and three in a pre-flight check accident.
I believe thinking in such "us vs. them" or "Goode olde America vs. Communist bastards" is no good for some time.
Since you mentioned Aral sea, shall I mention Exxon Valdes and Alaska?
"Oh, Americans learn the metric system in school, they just don't use it."
Why not, I wonder? Everyone else does.
Buran flew and landed safely. Probably it would with astronauts on board. It is an interesting fact that almost all Russian flights are controlled from the base, as much as possible. This is true for Shuttle as well. Computers fly it up, around and down. Buran was just completely computerised. To much of my suprise, Columbia proved that humans on board doesn't make a difference when something goes wrong. It still goes spectacularly wrong when it does.
There is no "dark side" of the Moon using your definition, the obvious presence of phases of the moon indicates a day-night cycle and hence no side that is in permanent darkness.
So of course nobody has spent much time their, just as nobody has spent much time in the Fairy Kingdom.
I hope you arent trying to imply that the US is not justified in pursuing rouge WMDs today because of the limited actions of a few members of the military almost 250 years ago. Hell- that was even before there was an understanding of basic germ theory, and almost 150 years before the Geneva convention that outlawed the use of chemical and biological weapons.
"The defense of freedom requires the advance of freedom" - George W Bush
Deriding the American educational system for not having kids memorize every event in space history is a bit harsh. To be fair there is quite a bit of space history, and this feat while impressive was clearly not as impressive as walking on the moon, and came second. I also doubt there is some dark sinister nationalism at fault, as also seems to be hinted at.
Lets deride the American education system for failing to teach reading and math, not obscure space trivia.
Letter To Iran
I have a new theory--as usual :) ok it's not so new. I'm sure social scientists have remarked on this already
The naming should indicate the underlying econopolitical system and culture in society. USSR was Communist (however little there was), while USA is capitalist. So USSR names things after people since people (eg. collective) take precedence under communist societies. USA names things after corporations since corporations (and other private businesses) take precedence in capitalist societies. Continuing this line of thought, you can analyze other societies as well. A theocratic society would name things after Gods, and a monarchy will name things after the monarchs. A dictatorship would name things after the dictator. The question is... what would a technologically oriented society (say one driven by geeks) name things after?
DISCLAIMER: What I said is not 100% true because no society fully practices one econopolitical system. For instance, USSR is partly communist, mostly totalitarian (dictatorship) and partly an oligarchy, while USA is mostly capitalist, and partly socialist. So you would see multiple characteristics. In addition, other factors (like nationalism) would impact it (eg. a country practicing nationalism will most likely name things after people)
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
I live in Berkeley, where some people are proud to call themselves Communist, and it turns my stomach. Millions upon millions dead, and they revel in it.
wtf? Communism != Russia! I seriously doubt these people you speak of think good of Stalin (who I assume you are referring to with that comment about the millions dead). He and Lenin were totalitarian rulers who subverted the idea of communism to serve their own ends. Russia wasn't even a communist nation (and yes, a communist nation can exist, just not a communist state). Russia was a socialist dictatorship.
Am I the only one who thinks this isn't funny?
Are slashdotters the univited people that smell weird and rifle through your stuff at parties?
Behave on other sites.