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Bandwidth in Little Rock, AR?

ioctl asks: "My company needs a 45Mb link from mid-town Little Rock, AR (University exit, I-630) to North Little Rock, AR (Wildwood exit, I-167). Our telco doesn't have any glass in the area, and wants about $800K over the next 5 years to build it out. We looked at another local provider who has the buildout already done, but their tech didn't show for the initial meeting (My boss: "He forgot it?!?!"). We've also looked into doing wireless via TCBY Tower (Proxim Tsunami or Aeras Networks Wavelink), but they are > $80K, plus rooftop space. Does bandwidth have to be this expensive? Are there any other possible solutions?"

11 of 71 comments (clear)

  1. Don't forget... by kinnell · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A van full of hard drives. OK, it's probably not applicable, but you didn't mention your latency requirements ;-) Might look good in your report as evidence of "thinking outside the box", though.

    --
    If I seem short sighted, it is because I stand on the shoulders of midgets
    1. Re:Don't forget... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is actually a very good point. Do you really NEED a 45mb connection? Why? What for?

      If after considering all the alternatives (VPN over DSL, mailing CDRs, etc) you decide you still need this fibre connection then... yes. Bandwidth is that expensive. Sorry!

  2. um... take another meeting with that local firm? by Artifex · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously, call the company, ask to talk to the president of the company, explain to them that his tech almost cost him a major deal, and asks if he still wants one.

    Oh, and if you get on good terms with that company, let them know there's at least one network engineer laid off from an international Tier 1 provider living in Dallas, Texas, who talked you into giving him another chance and would looove to move in and replace that tech :)

    --
    Get off my launchpad!
  3. Re:Is it me or... by AKnightCowboy · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Dunno, 80k for a wireless link with just the minimal of support fees sounds good, especially for 45mbps. Considering the facts that theres no telco fees involved with a wireless point-to-point solutions (unless i'm being extremely dumb).

    No kidding. How big is this company if they can't afford an $80k investment in hardware? I'd snap that up at the drop of a hat since you'll have no per-month fees to pay to a telco. Obviously they're big enough to justify 45Mbps worth of bandwidth so I'd think $80k up front would be a drop in the hat.

  4. Re:Is it me or... by 4of12 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And if US$ 80K seems stiff, maybe you can sell off chunks of your BW to other business to help make the mortgage payment on it.

    With the prime lending rate at 4%, that $80K is a little under $270/month, probably a lot less than what you're paying for space and other utilities already.

    --
    "Provided by the management for your protection."
  5. Second that by 0x0d0a · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The story submitter should call the local firm back. Don't get me wrong, I realize that the tech left a bad impression (i.e. is bad service going to dog them through their dealings with the company?), and the folks probably feel snubbed. However, as someone else pointed out, this is not a multimillion dollar deal. It's bad, but people also do occasionally forget things. Heck, I've made a couple of mistakes and oversights in my life, and I've been glad when people give me a chance to make good on it. Maybe the guy's wife just broke up with him, maybe some other company kept having emergencies that he had to handle and got overwhelmed, forgetting about the appointment. Maybe his PDA that he used to keep appointments with was stolen and he's been trying to adapt to using pen-and-paper. Who knows?

    Giving folks a chance to make one mistake, unless you're in a situation where a particular mistake absolutely cannot happen is not a bad idea. It can't hurt (aside from a bit of the submitter's time) to bring the people in. He can always decide not to go with them. Given the amount of money on the line, it seems like worthwhile being gracious may be worthwhile.

    Also, as others have pointed out, have you considered all possibilities? Do you really need a 45Mbps link? Can you get away with mirroring some fileservers on each side, or something along those lines? We don't really have any idea of what you're doing.

    Just a thought -- It might also be worthwhile to hire a local network engineering consultant to give his advice as to what's best to do. He might know of worthwhile things that other local companies have done.

    You might consider working a deal with any other businesses interested in doing the same thing and maybe even the city. If there are other businesses that desperately need network connectivity or could reduce their ISP fees by joining into such a thing, perhaps the people asking $800K could be made to give a better deal, or at least split costs.

    If you decide to do rooftop links, remember that the failure conditions are different from lines. Depending upon the sort of system you decide upon, bad weather can negatively impact your link.

    [Sigh] There's just so little information that it's hard to give more than very basic guesses as to what you want to do.

    1. Re:Second that by thelasttemptation · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Something else is that the LR location will be moving within the next 2.5 years, and most local telco's won't touch a short lease for this much bandwidth...

      I would recommend you move before investing in such a fat pipe to be honest. You've survived for awhile with how it is, so why not just suck it up and deal with it until your where you can play far more in advanced. Maybe even get it to that when they move the pipe is already there and waiting.

    2. Re:Second that by 0x0d0a · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Okay, well, let's see. If you're going to change this anyway in a maximum of 2.5 years, stopgap solutions should work. I'm a software guy, so the approaches that I'd think of try and work around needing the link in the first place:

      * I'm not familiar with AD usage, but perhaps you could get away with whatever lower-bandwidth connectivity *is* available (business DSL?) at both locations.

      * VoIP -- May be able to get away with a dedicated business DSL line again. More a question for telco folks. Issuing cell phones may be an answer (and these have benefits of their own).

      * SQL replication/File replication -- if there's any way to simply dump changes to a hard drive, this may be a good time to consider the van-full-of-CDs approach that someone suggested (or more likely, a USB 2 hard drive). Can you afford to have someone drive a hard drive across town each night for a maximum of 30 months? This has the added benefit of saving you on FedEx or whatever physical transport mechanism you use. With file replication, you may also consider use of a more advanced distributed filesystem like Coda that can lazily propagate data and use distributed servers.

      * Line-of-business Apps: Not sure. Depends on what you can get away with. If you can't just mirror a DB -- one side really does do writes that the other side may need to read right away -- and you really do have serious read and write bandwidth usage on each side, then you may be stuck WRT a high-speed link.

      You may need to squeeze your growth estimates, if you're going to move in the next 2.5 years, especially if it's more likely to happen in six months. You might also consider the networking issue as a factor in accelerating any move in progress.

  6. Re:um... take another meeting with that local firm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The question is why they are talking to a "tech" to begin with. Call the Sales Department -- those guys are on commission and won't forget to show up.

  7. consider moving the mountain to mohammed by cryptozoologist · · Score: 2, Insightful

    might it cost less than $80k to move the company to where the bandwidth you desire is available?

  8. Another possibility by 0x0d0a · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If the *only* high-bandwidth needs are for hot-backup, you may be able to, use colo or perhaps, cut a deal with another company's offices (one that could be reached more cheaply with high bandwidth) that also wants to run off-site hot-backup systems -- you supply hot-backup systems for them, they supply some for you. I don't know whether this is standard business practice.