Slashdot Mirror


Cities Built on Fertile Lands Affect Climate

Devar writes "While cities provide vital habitat for human beings to thrive, it appears U.S. cities have been built on the most fertile soils, lessening contributions of these lands to Earth's food web and human agriculture, according to a study by NASA researchers and others. Though cities account for just 3 percent of continental U.S. land area, the food and fiber that could be grown there rivals current production on all U.S. agricultural lands, which cover 29 percent of the country. Studies like this one may lead to smarter urban-growth strategies in the future."

20 of 99 comments (clear)

  1. Well, duh! by Rick+the+Red · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Cities grow up where people first settle, and people first settle where the land is fertile.

    --
    If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
  2. I'll second that.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My little town is build on a diver delta in the Pacific Northwest - it's some of the most fertile soil I've ever seen, and the fact that's it's low in elevation makes for great growing seasons.

    Out 20x10' kitchen garden could produce almost enough colories for two people to live on for a quarter of a year. The potato yeilds are just nuts - and we're not even trying hard.

    1. Re:I'll second that.. by Scrameustache · · Score: 3, Funny

      The potato yeilds are just nuts - and we're not even trying hard.

      I'll say! If you plant potatos and reap nuts, you must be doing this really half-assed!

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

  3. There goes the civilization by lambent · · Score: 3, Funny

    But Civilization has tought us that the best tactic is to build your cities on fertile ground, thus assuring a free bonus to food production.

    Maybe NASA should investigate the effects of granary production, and in-city irrigation.

  4. More study is needed by fatcat1111 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Of course, this research is of no consequence. Governments are not going to moderate their behavior in response to this knowledge when it's much easier to maintain the status quo and drag out that old line, "More study is needed."

    --
    How Politicians Lie: http://www.factcheck.org/
  5. Blame Kubla Khan by IainHere · · Score: 4, Funny

    This has been known for a long time, in the early 19th century, Coleridge published a poem about Xanadu - see the following snippets:

    In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
    A stately pleasure-dome decree
    Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
    Through caverns measureless to man
    Down to a sunless sea.
    So twice five miles of fertile ground
    With walls and towers were girdled round
    And there were gardens bright with sinuous rills,
    Where blossomed many an incense-bearing tree,
    And here were forests ancient as the hills,
    Enfolding sunny spots of greenery.

    So, we see early in the poem, beautiful, fertile ground. Later in the same poem, we read that:

    It was a miracle of rare device, A sunny pleasure-dome with caves of ice !

    So, this research is not novel, such climate change has been known for almost two centuries :-)

  6. Smarter Urban-Growth? by cornice · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Studies like this one may lead to smarter urban-growth strategies in the future.

    Right. In most places people know about smarter growth strategies. Rarely does growth hinge on anything but the perceived path toward the greatest short term wealth growth for the land owner. I'm guessing that maximization of soil production will be secondary to air quality, traffic, and many other concerns.

    1. Re:Smarter Urban-Growth? by Rick+the+Red · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Near where I live is a fertile valley, which is now mostly paved over with a sea of warehouses. Meanwhile, the hills on either side of the valley are largely undeveloped. Why? Because it's cheaper to build in the valley and ship in food from elsewhere than it is to build in the hills and grow food locally.

      Recently, the last agricultural business in the area -- a dairy -- was shut down because cow poop was getting into the river. Never mind the oil and gasoline run-off from the sea of asphault all around the dairy.

      Oh, and where does our food come from? South America and the irrigated deserts of California. Los Angeles can't get enough drinking water; they're draining the Colorado River dry before it reaches the sea, and still they can't get enough water. Yet they grow rice in the desert!

      And we wonder why the rest of the world thinks we're idiots.

      --
      If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
    2. Re:Smarter Urban-Growth? by Spamalamadingdong · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Los Angeles can't get enough drinking water; they're draining the Colorado River dry before it reaches the sea
      Not that it's particularly good drinking water. The amount of salt in it makes it inadvisable for some people (e.g. hypertensives) to drink, and this same salt requires measures to defend against salination when used for irrigation.
      and still they can't get enough water.
      Never mind that the sunlight falling on Los Angeles would probably be sufficient to desalinate all the fresh water they'd really need. I can't think of any reason why toilets can't be flushed with saltwater and lawns and plants watered with reclaimed graywater, can you?
      Yet they grow rice in the desert!
      All paid for by Federal irrigation projects, meaning taxpayers nationwide.

      If California had to pay for all of this itself, much of the state would dry up and blow away overnight. And it ought to.

      And we wonder why the rest of the world thinks we're idiots.
      Including this native-born American. It is just one more example of how subsidies create destructive incentives.

      FWIW, I think the ~$2/gallon subsidy we give oil via our defense spending is just as insane; if we charged the cost of defending ourselves and the Middle East against oil-financed extremism via fuel taxes, we would not have had an SUV craze. At $3.50 or more per gallon, there would not be enough of a market for Escalades, Hummers, Excursions and monster pickups to create the variety of models which lures people to use them as image statements (other than "I have more money than sense"), and we would be safer and richer (with a much healthier balance of payments) than we are with our hidden oil subsidies.

    3. Re:Smarter Urban-Growth? by Tailhook · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I can't think of any reason why toilets can't be flushed with saltwater and lawns and plants watered with reclaimed graywater, can you?

      Perhaps because a parallel plumbing and reclamation system would be necessary to keep the saltwater and freshwater separate? Is that really contributing a net gain or just shifting the damage? Another possible reason is that most fresh water is consumed in agriculture, not toilets, by a margin of about 15 to 1.

      And we wonder why the rest of the world thinks we're idiots.

      No, we don't, because we're increasingly immune to BAF bullshit and discount it automatically. The rest of the world is doing it's level best to emulate us in every conceivable manner and has been for the past century, regardless of what the worlds activists happen to be saying. Why are they flattering idiots?

      Including this native-born American. It is just one more example of how subsidies create destructive incentives.

      Would that include subsidies to car manufacturers to develop and market low-emission vehicles and power trains that run on renewables? It could be you're thinking of grant funded research that produces results similar as those we see here. Perhaps you are referring to subsidizing alternative energy sources for electricity, including offsetting operating costs. Or maybe you mean ITER or NIF... Is it really subsidies in general or just the subsidies you, in all your righteous genius, don't happen to think are proper, as you sit there well-fed in your heated dwelling writing messages in your spare time for distribution on a network initially developed using federal defense subsidies?

      if we charged the cost of defending ourselves and the Middle East against oil-financed extremism via fuel taxes, we would not have had an SUV craze. At $3.50 or more per gallon...

      You want to pay for defending ourselves against oil financed extremism by charging ~$2 a gallon more in taxes to end the SUV craze. I have a better idea; let's stop causing the market to buy vehicles based on truck chassis by allowing manufactures to build sufficiently sized vehicles based on passenger car chassis. I believe a small relaxation of CAFE and EPA standards on passenger cars would allow vehicle fleets to meet the expectations of the American market, but that the fleet average regulations prevent building appealing cars. Split the difference between 27.5mpg (cars) and 20.5mpg ("light" trucks) and we can start making cars again. The entire SUV episode the fault of these regulations because the market has been forced to choose between a car that's a couple hundred pounds too small/light (say, the difference between 3.4k and 4k lbs) and a truck that's a couple thousand pounds too heavy.

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
  7. This is the entire concept behind Urban Harvest by MarkusH · · Score: 3, Informative

    Their Mission Statement:

    We help build communities from the ground up by promoting sustainable urban land and horticultural practices to grow food and reduce hunger. We carry out our mission by working with volunteers and community groups building community gardens and orchards.

    Their website.

  8. Paulo Soleri by AtariAmarok · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Check into Paul Soleri. He proposed high-density small-footprint city-buildings called "arcologies". His books even show how little room a city like L.A. would take if it were built as an arcology.

    It does not seem feasible at this time: the one in the link above is very small and is being built at a snail's pace. Arcologies of the scale Soleri has envisioned have only appeared in the fiction Larry Niven has done in collaboration with other authors. ("Oath of Fealty" and the Dream Park novels)

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
    1. Re:Paulo Soleri by Dachannien · · Score: 4, Interesting

      ...And in the movie Blade Runner. And in the game SimCity 2000. And in the Shadowrun RPG.

      I really do wish that arcologies would catch on. The environmental impact of having the day commutes of tens of thousands of people reduced to a ride in an electric-powered mass transit shuttle - which people would have to use because there would be no room for cars inside the building - would be tremendous, especially when multiplied by a few hundred arcologies.

      The only thing to consider is whether the fertile lands mentioned in the above article are reclaimable, or whether enough environmental damage has been done to them to make them no longer very fertile.

  9. Disappearing Farms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I know that here in NYC we used to have loads Long Island potatoes in the stores. Now we don't have any. I am not talking about 50 years ago, I am talking about 15 or 20.

    Maybe the potatoes in in the store are from Long Island just not labeled as such. Maybe they have been out competed because of cheap transportation costs but mostly I think it is because as you drive out on I-495 (The Long Island Expressway) you see miles and miles of suburbs most of which used to be farms.

    The lack of urban planning in America has been a major irritation to me since I moved temporarily outside of New York City. I lived in the Tidewater area of Virginia for a few years and in Stutgart Germany for a half a year.

    Stutgart was laid out as little clumps of Urban areas mixed into farm, woodlots and vinyards. There were vinyards in the middle of the city. Plus you could walk or bike ride for miles on trails from one part of town to the other and there were trains everywhere.

    New York City is very dense. The whole world should not be like that, but it definitely should not be like the miles and miles, 50+ miles of suburb that surround it. The worst is places like Raleigh Triangle that has no city, just urban sprawl alon highways. I haven't been to California, but I get the impression that large sections of it are like that also.

  10. Who cares... by Dr.+Bent · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The last time I checked, the US government still pays people NOT to grow food because we have more than we need. When farm subsidies disappear, then I'll start worrying about urban sprawl affecting crop production.

    The problem of world hunger cannot simply be solved by producing more food. You have to get that food to whoever needs it, before it spoils, and in a way that is cost effective. That's a much more difficult problem than just growing more corn.

  11. Re:To quote Sam Kinison... by DamnRogue · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Furthermore, the world as a whole alrady produces more than enough food for everyone to eat well. The real issue is food transportation and storage. It doesn't matter if you can grow billions upon billion tons of wheat in the Ukraine if you can't get it to the hungry people in Africa. There are a whole host of blockages in the way: physical difficulties of getting perishable goods to remote locations, the inability of people in said locations to pay market price, political trade limitations, regional warlords, etc, etc.

  12. Duh, yourself by fm6 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I don't know whether to say "Kneejerk response" or "RTFA."

    Let's do the second thing first. The point of the article is not that people build on fertile land. The point is that in doing so, they affect the environment and the food supply.

    Second, it's not as simple as saying, "that's where people want to live, too bad." Silicon Valley is built on the best farmland in California, possibly in North America. The early electronic factories didn't come here for easy access to food -- they came here to be near Stanford and the Moffett Naval Air Station. Later high-tech companies came here to be near existing high-tech companies, and to tap the labor pool. There were urban centers they could have built in, but farmland was cheaper.

    The huge growth that followed was inevitable, and even desireable. But it could have been a lot better managed. Swathes of orchards could have been set aside, which would have made the Valley a nicer place to live, helped recharge the water table (lots of droughts here) and fought smog (trees suck up a lot of air polution). Instead of building willy-nilly, housing could have been concentrated in logical locations connected by heavy-duty transit corridors, including mass transit (the traffic jams are horrendous, and even if there were money for more freeways, there's no place to put them).

    Back in the 60s and 70s, when things started to ramp up, the County government tried to do something like the above. But county-wide planning would have eliminated the huge profits of real-estate developers. So they persuaded various little towns, some of them little more than railroad stops, to annex huge patches of land, exempting them from county planning.

    There's a street that runs on a rise at the side end of the valley, called Blossom Hill Road. The name comes from the fact that driving their in the spring brought you face to face with a shocking amount of floral color. Now all you see is urban sprawl. I never go there.

    1. Re:Duh, yourself by Phaid · · Score: 4, Funny

      Second, it's not as simple as saying, "that's where people want to live, too bad." Silicon Valley is built on the best farmland in California, possibly in North America. The early electronic factories didn't come here for easy access to food -- they came here to be near Stanford and the Moffett Naval Air Station.

      Yes, I remember tales of the pioneers of the 1800s hitching up the Conestoga and braving the crossing of the great plains in their brave quest to live near Stanford and Moffett Field, visions of higher learning and F-14s dancing in their heads as they struggled to ford streams with their teams of oxen...

  13. Re:Isn't this common sense? by Prior+Restraint · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One always needs a study to prove the "obvious." To a lot people, it's obvious that violent movies and videogames induce violent behavior in children, or that seeing an exposed breast on television is traumatic.

    "Common sense" is the name we give to our personal prejudices.

  14. Re:Duh, back at you by SpaceLifeForm · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Screw the 60s and 70s, the entire point goes back 100-200 years when the US was settled. RTFA yourself.

    "Urbanization follows agriculture -- it's a natural and important human process," said Imhoff.Throughout history, highly productive agricultural land brought food, wealth and trade to an area, all of which fostered settlements.

    This has little to do with Silicon Valley. In fact, the entire concept is a no-brainer to any civilization that ever settled anywhere on the planet.

    In fact, I wonder why NASA wasted money on this study in the first place.

    --
    You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.