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M&M's Pack Tighter Than Gumballs

icantblvitsnotbutter writes "In a rather humorous article, the New York Times reports that M&M's pack more tightly than gumballs (registration, blah blah... alternate source here). The upshot of this is what it means for manufacturing denser glass (here, the generic term for solids made of random arrangements of molecules). Some basic solid geometry and tongue-in-cheek quotes fill out the story, but the immediate applications are mind-boggling for the next time you grab munchies on a road trip."

60 comments

  1. Well.. by hookedup · · Score: 4, Funny

    They all have the same density when they come out of me :)

  2. Mmmmmm.... by SpaceLifeForm · · Score: 1

    That's why Peanut M&Ms exist, so they can make the bag look just as full as regular M&Ms, but with less chocolate!

    --
    You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
    1. Re:Mmmmmm.... by daeley · · Score: 4, Funny
      That's why Peanut M&Ms exist, so they can make the bag look just as full as regular M&Ms, but with less chocolate!

      ...and yet they have more peanuts! Isn't science astounding?

      --
      I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
    2. Re:Mmmmmm.... by tverbeek · · Score: 2, Interesting
      [Peanut M&Ms] have more peanuts!

      And yet, "plain" M&Ms do also contain a significant quantity of peanuts. Peanuts are blended into the chocolatey mixture found in M&Ms of all varieties.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    3. Re:Mmmmmm.... by BuckaBooBob · · Score: 1

      But it costs more to coat the peanuts and peanuts are worth more than chocolate by weight.

      Atleast last I looked :)

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  3. Ah, Nuts! by computersareevil · · Score: 1

    But what about Peanut M&M's?

    1. Re:Ah, Nuts! by Drakin · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Well, they do mention the almond M&M's...

      If the spheroids are deformed in a second direction, into ellipsoids (in other words, stretched or squashed so the M&M shape is no longer circular when viewed from above -- like, say, an almond M&M), then the maximum packing density increases to 77 percent, more tightly than the simple neat stacks.
  4. Duh! by RealityMogul · · Score: 1, Funny

    And mini-M&Ms can be packed even tighter! And ya know what - if you crush them into smaller fragments, you can pack those even tighter!

    Does anybody else feel insulted that this "story" was even posted here?

    1. Re:Duh! by Axeling · · Score: 1

      Well mini M&M's would pack only as well as regular (assuming they're the same shape), but I agree... must be a slow news day.

    2. Re:Duh! by RealityMogul · · Score: 1

      Yeah I screwed that one up. I was ticked and had my foot in my mouth.

    3. Re:Duh! by Valdrax · · Score: 2, Funny

      Compared to another article that I tried to get posted yesterday about biological evidence that aggressive people's brains react much more strongly to nicotine than non-aggressive people -- a little.

      I'm guessing Slashdot editors smoke and eat M&Ms all day.

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    4. Re:Duh! by bcattwoo · · Score: 1
      If you mixed the two you might be able to get a higher density though.

      Would this be considered food science?

  5. show me transparent M&Ms by BroadbandBradley · · Score: 1

    and then I'll be impressed.

    perhaps this means we'll soon see more glass stuff, I like the feel of glass over plastic and such. beyond that, it would be cool to see glass replacing other materials. How about a glass computer case, or glass engines.

    1. Re:show me transparent M&Ms by Tenfish · · Score: 5, Funny

      I won't be impressed unless I see transparent aluminum M&M's.

      --

      --Guns don't kill people, abortion clinics kill people.
    2. Re:show me transparent M&Ms by Ioldanach · · Score: 2, Interesting
      perhaps this means we'll soon see more glass stuff, I like the feel of glass over plastic and such.

      Glass refers to a noncrystalline, random arrangement at the molecular level. Silicon dioxide glass is generally transparent, but most glasses aren't. I've even seen aluminum glass, but it was in a sealed package. We weren't allowed to open it, apparently access to ambient oxygen would have caused it's surface to start reverting to a crystal state. It wasn't transparent, though. Looked like aluminum.

    3. Re:show me transparent M&Ms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or transparent aluminium

  6. Why this research is in any way interesting by IMSoP · · Score: 5, Informative

    For those too lazy/rushed to RTFA, the key point of this research is this:

    Given a load of spheres, shaking them about won't get them packed as tight as if you stacked them all up neatly by hand. But take a load of squashed spheres (e.g. M&Ms) and shake them about randomly, and they take up much less room, because they naturally find a good formation. Even better if they're asymetrical in another dimension too (e.g. nutty M&Ms).

    Yeah, great. But I suppose it's important to someone to know what shape will find its way into tight formations best.

    1. Re:Why this research is in any way interesting by conan776 · · Score: 1

      of course they'd pack tighter than spheres. Angular momentum is in play. This research still rates a big "duh" in my mind....

      --
      "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick
  7. Yes, but.... by FroMan · · Score: 3, Funny

    Have they figured out if the melt in your hand at all?

    Or where the mutant blue M&M's came from?

    Or why M&M's are now missing their colors?

    Personally, I bet the new blue M&M's stole the colors from the rest of them. They are probably holding the color's hostage. They even put out a out a ransom for them! Luckly atleast the orange color has been found according to authorities.

    [/hat:tinfoil state="off"]

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    1. Re:Yes, but.... by BuckaBooBob · · Score: 1

      You see the Blue M&M's are easy.. Its just other M&M's holding their breath untill they turn blue.. As for the ones missing their colours? I am sure they are still the colours they allways were.. But just very very pale from holding their breath doing in the in thing to be blue all the time :)

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  8. Glass is great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I much prefer a glass dagger. or glass greaves!
    A glass suit of armour is one to cherish, I can tell you that.

    1. Re:Glass is great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Crystal plate mail is not what is used to be.

  9. Packing density only one contributer to strength by G4from128k · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Denser packing of powders in sintered materials should improve their strength. But I bet the ultimate properties of materials made with ellipsoidal powders will be more complex than predicted from the packing density.

    Granular materials tend to be weakest at the grain interfaces. Such materials tend to fail by breaking the grain-to-grain contacts, rather than shearing through the grains themselves. Thus, the geometry of the contact points will play a big role in the material's strength. I'd bet that ellipsoidal particle aggregates have more contact points because the elongated grains reach across the aggregate to touch more other grains. This should increase strength (materialsmade from ellipsoidal powers will be eve stronger than expected).

    But the story might be even more complicated if large collections of grains have correlated orientations. If all of the grains in a region are oriented in the same way, that region will have highly anisotropic properties (extra weak in some directions and extra strong in other). Parts made with ellisoidal powders may have nonuniform strength in two senses. First, the parts may be weak in some directions, stronger in others(very good or very bad depending on how the design handles strength vis a vis the particle orientations). Second, if the packing orientations vary from part to part (or within macroscopic domains in parts), then the parts may vary in strength across different parts or across batches of parts (bad because inconsistent quality is bad).

    Interesting story, but more research is needed.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
  10. You might remember me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Hi. I'm Troy McClure. You might remember me from such candy-packing films as "Don't Break the Pixie Sticks" and "990 Milk Duds per Cubic Metre". I hereby deny that I was ever in "Fudge Packin'"

  11. It'f true!! by seanmeister · · Score: 4, Funny

    I ab ferifying thif af I fpeak!

  12. Did anyone stop to think: by TwistedGreen · · Score: 1

    M&Ms are also denser because gumballs are hollow.

    I mean, duh.

  13. Another piece of worthless info by Quill_28 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you have a box filled with big and little spheres the big pieces will rise to the top when shaken.

    Yet if you have a cone with the point down, the big pieces will sink to the bottom.

    For some reason this makes sense in my mind but I am not sure why.

    1. Re:Another piece of worthless info by mopslik · · Score: 1

      This would make an interesting science experiment. Have a link or ref handy? I'm genuinely curious now.

    2. Re:Another piece of worthless info by Quill_28 · · Score: 1

      Can't take credit for it, I think I read it in
      a Marie von Savant(sp?) newspaper article.

      But i will look around.

    3. Re:Another piece of worthless info by mopslik · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I've been flipping through Google for a few minutes, without any luck. I know some science/math teachers who'd love this sort of thing.

    4. Re:Another piece of worthless info by Quill_28 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I have had no luck either.

      And I can't find an archive of her columns.

      If you have some science/math teachers make sure to tell them about the belt around the earth question.

      Let me know if you are not familiar with it.

    5. Re:Another piece of worthless info by mopslik · · Score: 1

      Heh, thanks for trying. I'll look into it a bit more. Time to get creative with searches.

    6. Re:Another piece of worthless info by jnik · · Score: 1
      I think I read it in a Marie von Savant(sp?) newspaper article.

      I hate to use the term "dumbass," but she comes close. Many (if not most) of her articles range from very misleading to flat-out wrong. Yet people believe the self-proclaimed "world's smartest person."

      Regarding the balls-in-a-box: are the "bigger" balls the same density? It's density that matters, not size--if you put a ping-pong ball and a similarly-sized ball bearing in a box of sand and shake it, the ping-pong ball will "float" and the ball bearing "shrink." The system is seeking a state of minimal energy, which occurs with the maximum amount of mass (i.e. the densest objects) furthest down in the gravity well. Has nothing to do with big or small, just whether something's denser than sand.

    7. Re:Another piece of worthless info by slothman32 · · Score: 1

      I don't know what article you are refering but large ones should rise to the top. Think of it this way: the small ones fit in the pores between the large ones and can go down while the large ones can't do the same so they stay at the top. The large ones act as a sieve for the small ones. Density probably also matters but I don't know how much. If they have the same density my reasoning works. If the large ones are much denser they might settle down. I think Slashdot mentioned this years ago but am too lazy to search.

      --
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    8. Re:Another piece of worthless info by WalksOnDirt · · Score: 1

      The large balls floating to the top of a shaken mixture has been the subject of quite a bit of research lately. Since it is one of the rare areas of inquiry where the problem is easily explained, it has been covered a lot in the popular science press.

      Firstly, all the balls are the same density. Also, the large balls are a small fraction of the volume, so it's not a matter of the small balls filling up the cracks. Finally, the large balls stick up a bit after the mix has been shaken for a while, so we are getting a higher than minimum energy result.

      The most convincing explanation I have seen suggests that friction of the balls against the walls of the container causes the balls to circulate down the edges of the box and up the center. The large balls go along with the flow up the center, but have trouble moving down the sides. This leaves the large balls on top, mostly near the edges.

      Why does the circulation pattern develop? As the walls of the container go down, gravity pulls the balls the same way, and there is enough friction with the walls to keep them moving together. When the walls start to move up, the inertia of the balls and gravity combined are enough to overcome the friction and keep the balls moving down. This is the same principle that lets you move a penny on a CD case just by moving the case back and forth (fast one way and slow the other).

      Why do the large balls have trouble moving down the sides? One reason might be that the downward flow is strongest right at the walls, and the center of a large ball can't get as close to a wall as the center of a small ball. I'm not certain that this is the reason put forth in the article I read, though.

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    9. Re:Another piece of worthless info by renoX · · Score: 1

      I'm wondering if it depends of the "average density"?

      Even if all balls are made from the same materials, you could say that on average large balls are less dense than the small one because when there is more free space between the balls..

      I'm curious what would happens if the density of the large balls was increased to compensate for the difference in "average density": what added density should be added so that the large balls sinks or don't move..

    10. Re:Another piece of worthless info by WalksOnDirt · · Score: 1

      Larger balls have larger free spaces, fewer of them.

      If the balls are segregated the average density is the same.

      A mixture of large and small balls is denser than either alone, so if density is the controlling factor a few large balls in among small ones should sink to the bottom. Similarly, a few small balls should sink to the bottom of a bunch of large balls.

      So the questions is: Why do a few large balls in mass of small ones actually rise to the top?

      --
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    11. Re:Another piece of worthless info by balamw · · Score: 1

      FWIW the scientific term for this is the "Brazil Nut Effect", Google reveals tons of links once you know this.

      Balam
    12. Re:Another piece of worthless info by Alsee · · Score: 1

      It's density that matters, not size... ball bearing "shrink."

      No. You can put lead weights in a box of baby power and they will rise to the top if you vibrate it.

      The system is seeking a state of minimal energy, which occurs with the maximum amount of mass (i.e. the densest objects) furthest down in the gravity well.

      You're right that the minimum energy configuration is with the highest density objects at the bottom, but the rest is incorrect. You have to do work to vibrate the system and the system will actually adsorb energy from the vibrations to drive the larger objects to the top. If the larger objects are denser then this will actually drive the system it into a higher energy state.

      -

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    13. Re:Another piece of worthless info by mopslik · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the name.

      Yeah, I always knew about the larger objects rising to the top. It's the discrepancy between the box and the cone that got me interested. Still, worth a look!

    14. Re:Another piece of worthless info by mopslik · · Score: 1

      Well, worth a double-post. Less than 2 minutes after searching around, I found a number of links regarding the cone. Found a couple of PDF links too. Should make for interesting reading.

      Thanks again.

    15. Re:Another piece of worthless info by Quill_28 · · Score: 1

      http://www.ontariosciencecentre.ca/scizone/brainz/ francis/granular.asp

      This talks about how a cone shaped container reverses the Brazil Nut Effect.

  14. error in article by Calaf · · Score: 1

    Stacked neatly, the spheroids still take up 74 percent of the space, just like spheres. But in random arrangements, computer simulations and experiments with M&M's showed that spheroids could be packed much more densely, filling up to 71 percent of the space.

    Umm, 71 percent is less dense than 74 percent. Yay for innumeracy!

  15. configuration space by epine · · Score: 4, Interesting


    Coding theory has many results based on sphere packing, computational chemistry deals with this kind of vast configuration space, and stochasitic algorithms often depend on properties of randomized configuration spaces. In other words, everyone return to their zsh and PHP scripts, nothing to see here but some real computer science.

    To those who remain this result ought to be unsurprising: the non-spherical M&Ms have a larger configuration space, because orientation (and not just position) of the M&M also matters.

  16. Stephen Hales related to Tom Hales? by mosel-saar-ruwer · · Score: 1

    While the research ended with M&M's, it started with peas. Dr. Paul M. Chaikin, a professor of physics at Princeton, assigned an undergraduate student, Evan A. Variano, to reproduce the work of an 18th-century English clergyman, Stephen Hales, who studied the packing of spheres with peas. Hales soaked the peas, which swelled and deformed, allowing him to see the precise arrangement of each pea with its neighbors.

    The fellow who [has appeared to have] solved the problem of three-dimensional sphere packing is named Tom Hales, late of Michigan, but now at Pitt.

    Tom - if you're following this thread: Are you any relation to Stephen Hales?

  17. error in post by mike_mgo · · Score: 1
    Neatly stacked, as in a pyramid of oranges at a grocery store, the spheres occupy 74 percent of the available volume. Arranged randomly, however, the spheres fill only 64 percent of the space.

    Umm, 71 percent is more dense than 64 percent. Yay for illiteracy.

    1. Re:error in post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      No, in fact. Keep in mind that they are (presumably) using a set quantity of oranges, or m&m's, or whatever. So if the same amount of oranges takes up less space (ie, 64 vs. 74) in a random arrangement, the random arrangement is more densely packed. I thought that was pretty clear, personally.

    2. Re:error in post by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I thought that was pretty clear, personally.

      Seriously. Apparently the jackasses pack pretty densely here on slash.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    3. Re:error in post by Roydd+McWilson · · Score: 1

      No, that's the percentage of the space of the container that the volume of the items actually occupy when the container is "full," i.e. you can't put any more items in. If you subtract it from 100%, you get the size of the air gaps between the items due to the fact that their shape prevents them from being perfectly packed.

      --
      THE NERD IS THE COMPUTER.
  18. This just in... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Starbursts pack even denser than M&M's. Apparently using a square shape that stacks up perfectly with adjacent candies works even better than a rounded shape.

    1. Re:This just in... by caffiend666 · · Score: 1

      Yes, but they have less efficient use of surface area, requiring more coating if they had been candy coated chocolate. Also, they would require more supervision and more complex machinery to achieve even coating. Who else is wanting Almond Bark coated Starbursts for Christmas this year?

      --
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  19. Distribution of peanut M&Ms... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The # of peanut M&Ms in a 49.3g bag ranges from 19-25. Why is this?

    1. Re:Distribution of peanut M&Ms... by unitron · · Score: 1
      "The # of peanut M&Ms in a 49.3g bag ranges from 19-25. Why is this?"

      Peanuts are not uniform in size and weight so some Peanut M&Ms are heavier than others. The product is sold by weight, so the extremes are a few heavy Peanut M&Ms or a lot of light ones.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    2. Re:Distribution of peanut M&Ms... by i+chose+quality · · Score: 1

      so look out for m&m packs, that look too flabby. maybe you'll bite on a reason to sue them and get rich! :)

      --
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      i am not at it
      what a waste of ressources
  20. The real Slim Shady by tepples · · Score: 1

    Or why M&M's are now missing their colors?

    It's rumored to be a co-promotion with Shady Records. You see, Eminem has white skin but acts black. Notice that the black-and-white M&M's candies have a backwards 'E' written on them, which is Eminem's logo.

  21. Random Shapes? by caffiend666 · · Score: 1

    Ok, but does the artcile mean random shapes would be more efficient yet? Allowing even more packing into empty space?

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    1. Re:Random Shapes? by tiled_rainbows · · Score: 1

      The most efficient use of the space would be one huge M&M shaped exactly like whatever container it is that you're trying to fill.

      Except it wouldn't really be an M&M then, would it? Just a big ol' lump of chocolate.

      However, the real question we should be asking is:

      If you fill a pint glass to the brim with skittles, how much beer can you fit in the remaining gaps? I guess that, if skittles have a similar random packing density to M&Ms (71%), then that leaves space for only 29% of a pint of beer. So we see that the maximum possible beer/skittles ratio is 1:2.
      Unless Skittles float, and then the whole thing gets a little more complicated.

  22. Re:Packing density only one contributer to strengt by BuckaBooBob · · Score: 1

    This sounds like a job for a few trillion nano-bots... Now they really need to get the ball rolling on consructing a nano sized robot that can have enough limited intelligence to stack particles :)

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