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An Interview with Jeff Waugh
An anonymous reader writes "LinuxWorld has published a nice interview with Jeff Waugh, one of the core members of the GNOME community. In the interview Waugh talks about the upcoming GNOME 2.6, his views on software patents and on the involvement of the big vendors in the GNOME development process. Waugh is the current chair of the GNOME release team."
What a sad state of affairs that this is one of the main topics that the GPL community has to discuss.
More than the progress of the GNU project, more than software engineering breakthroughs, more than new ideas in user interface design, software patents seems to have eclipsed all that.
I used to be excited about computers and sharing ideas, but when the community dedicated to sharing has become a one note wonder, I find myself dulled by such harping on technicalities rather than technologies.
I have been pwned because my
What is the roadmap for convergence of Gnome and KDE? It is good to have choice, but sad to see a fragmentation at the application level. Apart from the different programming languages used in the two, is there any fundamental reason why a common API cannot be defined or added?
Right now it seems that the only solution for applications that want to be totally portable is to bypass KDE and Gnome entirely and use their own libraries (Mozilla, OOorg) and/or X.
Even being able to run Gnome and KDE side-by-side in the same sessions would be a good thing.
Ceci n'est pas une signature
Way too corporate ... I think Linus's approach is better, just avoid reading patents as much as you can and start caring when someone sues.
In terms of the technology, we've basically got all of the desktop applications solved.
In terms of the mental ward, we've basically got all of the penthouse suites booked....by YOU! HAHAHAHA
Honestly, GNOME is the best desktop excluding OSX in terms of usability (imho omg wtf) - but give me break, Jake! I guess if by 'solved' you really mean "looks kind of like something you've seen in either Windows or Mac, but not really", then I agree whole-heartedly.
Here is the unification roadmap:
KDE: ----------X
GNOME: ------------------->
</biased_gnome_user>
But, seriously, it doesnt make sense to talk about unifying them, as they are built around fundamentally different toolkits. ( Qt uses a modified subset of C++, GTK+ uses C as a base but has a nice C++ wrapper)
So they cant really be unified, though they can be made quite compatible.
I'm personally biased towards GNOME, because as a C++ programmer I love the stl, and thus hate Qt and the moc. But that doesnt mean I really think that KDE will die off: Free code is, after all, immortal.
In terms of the technology, we've basically got all of the desktop applications solved. Between OpenOffice.org, GNOME, Mozilla and a number of other projects, the stack of stuff people generally use on the desktop is pretty much there.
:)
Which really makes me wish that GNUCash was in that group. I do everything (word processing, email, spreadsheets, gaming) on Linux inside Gnome except for managing my finances. I keep a windows box with Quicken around for that. GNUCash could replace that for me but probably not before GNUCash-2 which is supposed to be GTK2. I heard they were short on developers and that was stalling progress on that. I guess personal finance doesn't have much of a place on a business desktop and gets less attention. I've been playing around with SQL-Ledger but thats a bit overkill for my needs.
That aside I love Gnome and am looking forward to 2.6 and Epiphany 1.2.
I've recently been introducing my staff at my day job to GNOME since we are moving away from OpenVMS to Unix. Since HP-UX will be coming with GNOME as a default in future releases, I figured it would be good to get the guys used to it by having them use it on a daily basis for basic work stuff. So far they have taken to it pretty well. The most amazing thing is that some of them actually find it EASIER and more FLEXIBLE than Windows. Thank you for a terrific project!
I try to be fu
Why do you think Linus Torvalds is so popular? He's so down-to-earth about these things and interested in the technology and not the technicalities. This SCO mess forced him into it, but even then he still spits out the choice quotes, like the infamous "crack" comment.
It depends on where your priorities are. Yeah, OS X is more polished and more pretty, but KDE is a whole lot more flexible and powerful.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Does anyone know about the legal status of Mono? I mean, if Gnome starts using it all over the place and M$ decides to shut it down (they have like a million lawyers, so they can probably do that), won't Gnome be, well, dead? Or at least in a very uncomfortable position?
From http://www.gnome.org/start/: "Even-numbered releases are considered stable as both a user desktop and a development platform for third party software and ISVs. Odd-numbered releases are considered unstable, and are oriented toward testing and development of the desktop platform itself."
It seems to me, people overestimating their own ability isn't the fault of the interface. I agree its a dilemma, but not as bad as not offering the advanced interface at all. If GNOME takes the KISS principle too far they are just going to drive the power users to another alternative. Perhaps that has already happened.
Yes, but not in the same way as saying COBOL code and Lisp code are completely different. GNOME is C written in a OO style, while C++ is, of course, very similar to C but with OO features. You can port between C and C++ a lot easier than most other combinations, indeed, unlike COBOL/Lisp, C++ compilers today will compile most ANSI C code without complaint. While a lot of the GUI code on both sides is very different because they use different GUI libraries, a lot of the foundation code in both systems isn't GUI dependent and could migrate a lot easier I believe than you think.
Ultimately that is always the tradeoff you are going to have. Complex apps with complex features require a complex interface *to* those features. I was speaking less in terms of applications, and more in terms of just the DE's interface. To solve this problem, you don't need different DE's, I think, you just need different apps ranging from the dead simple to the complex. The environment remains the same, but the complexity is moved to the applications, with the whole point being that we end up with a common basic DE, but with a wide variation of file managers, editors, and other apps to solve the needs of different users.
Does a DE really have to have just one official file manager for it? I don't think so, decisions have to made about what the defaults are, but beyond that choice is essential to satisfy a large user base, and the whole argument is about trying to come up with one DE that could satisfy most folks, and provide Linux with a GUI standard that it currently doesn't have. If the KDE and GNOME people could agree on a common core, they can still go their own ways on the apps and utilities to satisfy different users and different goals, while at least saving all of us from having to keep 2 completely different and massive library suites on our system to use the different apps.
I just don't buy the argument that you have to have an entirely different system, from the foundation libraries providing I/O and GUI widgets right up to the file manager and other utilities, just to satisfy the differing goals of KISS and customizability. The 2 groups *could* find a lot of common ground, *if* they really wanted to, and really *tried*.
Yeah, I searched high and low for info on this too. Why is it such a big secret?
The strong do what they can, while the weak suffer what they must.
The only argument you gave says that GTK was ahead of Qt in internationalization. Anything confirming that it still is ahead?
As a guy who sold all of my Macs (had 4 and 1 powerbook (part of my job was Mac support), now I only have one G3 running yellowdog), I can say I'm happy.
And don't think that I haven't tried to use OSX. Common, I'm a sysadmin administering few companies and about 50 servers, I'm not unemployed, I don't have time to tweak my box to be usable for my work. Installing X11, installing Fink, compiling, searching for missing libraries, compiling, searching...
The common fact that Linux works nothing like OSX is main reason that I use it.
And believe me, Gnome is nothing like OSX. Main problem of OSX is when people like me start to use it. I always have 3x19" or 3x22" monitors, just to fit my windows. And just think about it, menu bar is on one monitor only, what a distance traveller this OSX mouse is (at least in my case). Also there is no support for separated screens, on Linux I just set Xinerama off and voila! Every monitor it's main menu and main panels with separated Window task list and it's own virtual screens.
Basically, my setup it's just as it would be as if I would use three different computers, but with one keyboard, one mouse and one storage.
But then again some people seem happy with OSX.
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
GNOME is C written in a OO style, while C++ is, of course, very similar to C but with OO features.
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Its not just a matter of language. Its a matter of the fundemental structure of the code.
a lot of the foundation code in both systems isn't GUI dependent and could migrate a lot easier I believe than you think.
---------
I am reasonably familier with the KDE architecture and parts of the KDE code, and I can tell you that nearly everything is fundementally tied to Qt. Even non-GUI stuff like kio and dcop are dependent on Qt. Unless GNOME is willing to adopt a Qt dependency (never going to happen) that code cannot be integrated. In the other direction, a lot of GNOME code has dependencies on glib and GTK+. There is no way in hell that KDE will adopt a GTK+ dependency, but it is porting some of the glib-dependent parts over. However, that is not terribly useful, because GNOME really has few non-GUI things that are worth porting.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...