Europa's Acid Ice Fields

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Posted by Hemos on Monday February 16, 2004 @04:49AM from the melt-your-skin dept.

tr0llb4rt0 writes "The New Scientist reports on recent observations that suggest the ice on Jupiter's moon Europa may be highly acid with a pH of near zero, and have a surface layer of hydrogen peroxide. Two theories have been put forward. One says that the acid has been formed at the surface layer from oceanic salts reacting with the intense radiation from Jupiter, the other that sulphuric acid is coming directly from the ocean, with the water reacting with sulphur produced from undersea volcanos. Wilst reducing the chances of life on Europa, it is not ruling it out completely, as there are terrestrial extremophile bacteria which thrive in highly acid environments."

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error? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-16 04:52 · Score: 0, Insightful

highly ACIDIC environments
*cringes* by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-16 04:52 · Score: 0, Insightful

it's acidic
Alternative life forms by Mick+Ohrberg · 2004-02-16 04:53 · Score: 5, Insightful

Wilst reducing the chances of life on Europa, it is not ruling it out completely, as there are terrestrial extremophile bacteria which thrive in highly acid environments.
Key word being terrestrial. What about life forms based on silicon and sulphur (as opposed to carbon and oxygen). The theories are there, and I think we have merely begun to scratch the surface of what different kinds of 'life' may be out there.

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1. Re:Alternative life forms by Surazal · 2004-02-16 05:10 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Examples must first be found before we can meaningfully talk about these forms of life from a biological standpoint.
  
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2. Re:Alternative life forms by Sj0 · 2004-02-16 06:48 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Speaking of which, I love how whenever you see silicon based organisms in literature, they're always talking rocks. Just imagine if some silicon based intelligence was thinking about the possibility of carbon-based life forms! "We think they'll turn out to be black or clear, and either extremely hard like diamond, or flammable, like coal!"
  
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H2O2 indicates lots of OXYGEN! by DR+SoB · 2004-02-16 05:02 · Score: 4, Insightful

If there is vast quantities of H2O2 (Hydrogen peroxide), wouldn't that indicate the presense of life is more likely? It would indicate high levels of oxygen, since, H2O2 is obviously oxygen risk. Many farmers on earth use H2O2 to increase the concentration of oxygen in the water supply, so wouldn't that work on Jupiter as well?? Any chemists out there know the answer?

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1. Re:H2O2 indicates lots of OXYGEN! by numbski · 2004-02-16 05:06 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Erm...just because an element is available doesn't mean it's usable.
  
  I mean, O3 may be available, but that doesn't mean you can breathe it. :\
  
  It would seem that life as we know it would be indicated more by the presence of CO2, oxygen in of itself.
  
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2. Re:H2O2 indicates lots of OXYGEN! by DR+SoB · 2004-02-16 05:10 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Wrong. H2O2 is USABLE for providing Oxygen to plants. This is a proven fact. o3 may not be breathable to us, but it's presence means that we could extract the Oxygen from it (EASILY because o3 is unstable). That's why water on mars is so important, if it's there, we can EXTRACT the oxygen and breath it. If it's there, it's usable!
  
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Rocket Fuel? by Short+Circuit · 2004-02-16 05:02 · Score: 5, Insightful

Isn't hydrogen peroxide a rocket fuel?

*hm....*

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Why by Have+Blue · 2004-02-16 05:03 · Score: 4, Insightful

Why do we decide the probability of life on Europa based on life's characteristics on Earth? It's a completely different environment that has never had any contact with Earth and almost certainly has never had conditions similar to conditions at any time in the history of life on Earth. Our knowledge of biology may not even apply to anything we discover out there.
1. Re:Why by kirkjobsluder · 2004-02-16 06:00 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Probably because (as Asimov pointed out in a great collection of essays titled "The Tragedy of the Moon") what we know about chemistry suggests that life favors a sweet-spot of conditions. These conditions include an abundant diversity of chemicals, a reasonable temperature range, and a reasonable range of temperatures. At this sweet-spot the creation of complex molecules is probable. Outside of this sweet-spot increasingly improbable.
2. Re:Why by Cyno · 2004-02-16 06:36 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Yes, but what we know about life is it is in essense the struggle to organize against the natural order of the universe to decay into chaos.
  
  So life could exist anywhere in any imaginable form. One day we might be able to create "living" machines by our definition of life. Life is simply organized matter. And we haven't even explored all forms of matter in our little corner of our solar system let alone this universe.
  
  Let me put it this way. We created the laws of physics, Neutonian physics anyway, to describe what we saw in nature. But we discovered that these "laws" were not accurate. That our limited perspective of our universe prevented us from drawing the real equations just to describe motion in this 4 dimensional universe. And now our brightens minds are still extremely confused about something all of us take for granted everyday, they don't even know if our universe is limited to 4 dimensions anymore. We don't know anything about anything, we just have a few logical guesses and a lot of pigheaded assumptions.
Re:Acid ? pH zero ? by DR+SoB · 2004-02-16 05:04 · Score: 0, Insightful

Your completely wrong, it's a sliding scale.

7 = Neutral

7 = Base.

A Ph of 0 would burn directly through your cars engine block (solid steel!), no problem.

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Re:What is this basic of which you speak???? by DR+SoB · 2004-02-16 05:14 · Score: 3, Insightful

Same thing, different text book. It is called Alkaline, or "basic"..

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Re:If only they could find silicone... by lambent · 2004-02-16 05:24 · Score: 2, Insightful

Oftentimes, humour is borne out of the introspection into one's own world.

That's insight.
Re:And a monopropellant to boot by Short+Circuit · 2004-02-16 05:26 · Score: 2, Insightful

Well the solution seems simple to me. H2O2, AFAIK, does not require another oxidant to burn. So it may serve as a useful fuel, especially in a vacuum environment.

Also, since 2 H2O2 can become 2H2O + O2, you can get oxygen and water, both useful. Finally, with the expenditure of energy (freely available if you burn H2O2 as a lone energy source), you can use electrolysis to get H2 and more O2 from the water.

Sounds to me like a sweet deal.

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Isn't it rather sad ... by phoxix · 2004-02-16 05:29 · Score: 2, Insightful

that we've become more obsessed about life on other planets, than life on our own planet ?

Sooner or later we'll just be what we've created in the movies: A group of living things going from planet to planet stripping it of its resources.

Sunny Dubey
Re:Wilst reducing the chances of life on Europa,.. by damien_kane · 2004-02-16 05:46 · Score: 2, Insightful

Roy Schieder, maybe; but I'd rather shoot Rob Schneider into space...
Re:Mental Note... by geoffspear · 2004-02-16 09:12 · Score: 3, Insightful

Yeah, but imagine how big the engines on this spaceship will need to be to launch a ship made of something as dense as gold or platinum. Not to mention the cost of the raw materials to build the thing. And, well, the fact that gold, at least, isn't exactly known for its strength.

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