Slashdot Mirror
EU Rejects Microsoft Settlement Proposal
Karl Cocknozzle writes "European Union antitrust officials have dismissed as insufficient Microsoft's offer to settle their most recent antitrust problem in Europe. Spokespeople for the European Commission and Microsoft declined to comment on a report in today's Financial Times that Microsoft had offered to include rival media player software from Apple and Real Networks on a CD-ROM packaged with personal computers to help resolve the case. Previously, the EU had demanded that Microsoft either unbundle Windows Media Player, or also bundle rival media players with Windows. It appears that Microsoft might get more than a slap on the wrist this time around."
Happy Trails!
Erick
http://www.busyweather.com/
I get the distinct impression the EU is out to make an example of them and fine them ridiculously.
I'm not a Microsoft fan boy, but it doesn't appear to me they are getting a good rap.
I say screw it. Whats happened happened. If Microsoft is bad they will fail all by themselves. They don't need the rule of laws help.
clifgriffin > blog
Now, I'm no Microsoft fanboy, but I really don't see what the big deal is with Windows Media Player. Like somebody pointed out (Monkeyboy Ballmer IIRC), Windows has shipped with a Media Player since Windows 3.1 at least, and nobody's complained about illegal bundling.
...
Of course, what they might be doing (although I haven't been able to find any reputable sources for this) is disallowing OEMs to pre-install, say, Quicktime and Realplayer on the systems they sell. If indeed they're doing this, that is (imnsho) abusing their monopoly, and they should be forced to allow OEMs and others to pre-install whatever software they want.
But to require them to bundle Quicktime/Realplayer/whatever with Windows? That seems wrong on so many levels
Dlugar
Computer Go: Writing Software to Play the Ancient Game of Go
Microsoft had offered to include rival media player software on a CD-ROM packaged with personal computers to help resolve the case.
Who decides which (presumably free) media players go on the CDROM then? Is it just RealPlayer and 1 or 2 others (the major ones) or can anybody get in, i.e. Mplayer and other lesser known media players? And surely Microsoft's own WMP would have stayed the one installed by default, effectively nulling the advantage of having other alternatives available on the CD.
No really, that was obviously a trick to fool the EU antitrust commision. I'm glad they saw through Microsoft's "good will" proposals, unlike their US counterparts.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Let's hope that Microsoft won't be able to buy its way out like it did in the US.
Seriously, I'd like to see Europe calm down Microsoft. Let's them compete on pure merits, and stop quashing competition. One can only hope that in a few years, you will be able to choose between different OS, without locking oneself out of a lot of content.
I know that some alternatives start to emerge, and that you can now play a lot of videos on Linux, but the Microsoft lockin is still very strong.
Europe slapping Microsoft could mean more money from investors in rivals, thus leading in acceleration of competition's offerings.
A good thing, IMO.
However, even if they are told to remove their media player, it will most likely be how you can "remove" MS Messenger. Hell, last time I reformated and uninstalled MS Messenger it didn't even delete the icon which as far as I can tell, is all it is supposed to do.
I hate MS as much as the next guy because of their hideous record when it comes to competition and quality, but since when is bundling QT and RealPlayer seen as a solution to their monopoly? I mean, I want RealPlayer AND WMP both OFF my computer, and not be forced to suffer both of them!
A real solution would be to ship completely without the media player and any DLLs relating to it, and make people download it, or allow OEMs to install a competing player if they so wish. Same should be done for IE. I know that both are buried deep into the system, but it's their problem, not mine.
Additionally, they should be required to disclose their audio and video formats. If they are truly a part of the system, then this information is needed for interoperability. Let's hope we get open file formats, and not RealPlayer rubbish being forced down our throats in addition to WMP!
... to control the future media distribution standard, and impose a 'Microsoft tax' similar to that they have on PCs today. Its importance to them cannot be overestimated, and they will fight tooth and nail to maintain its position. Robert X Cringely has a very interesting article on Microsoft's media strategy in his ongoing coverage of Burst.com's patent-infingement suit against MS/WMA.
Unfortunately, I have little faith in the EU to actually successfully force the issue here. As one reader already commented, any restrictions imposed will almost surely never see light in the US.
Far be it from our own congressional leaders or regulators to take any inspiration from a EU success, but that is a separate tangent.
It is my opinion that Microsoft has the monopoly they have at the behest of the consumer market which continues to support their products with dollars or euros in this case. Dollars have always spoken louder than votes, and until a viable competitor arises any regulation/restrictions/bundling/unbundling current or future will be seen as nothing more than a minor set back for Microsoft, not a solution.
The recent success introducing Linux (or any other alternative) definitely suggests that such a thing is not the barrier, rather it is the mind set. It was "marketing", t-shirts and stupid stuff penguins. And it will take something similar, if more tangible to convince CEOs and CTOs that there is a viable alternative to windows. It is rather ironic that they complain with one handand then buy 100K in licenses with the other. It is the responsibility of the entrenched IT community to instigate change where such change is economically viable. This is not a principal issue, but an economic one and the ultimately, the best solution to the problem will win if presented correctly on a case by case basis.
Of course, this all circles back to my original point. Unless, the mind set of the consume is altered (ideally in the work place where I find most of the user trends are set), then and only then will the "monopoly" be broken. Any attempt to regulate/bundle/unbundle Windows and its products will fail so long as the dollar/euro votes continue to pour in.
Just my 2 cents.
Buy the computer, and then return it, because you don't agree with the EULA (that you couldn't even read).
Choose with your wallets if you want to punish MS. It's not like aren't alternatives to everything they make.
In other words, I agree the ajiva's irony, assuming it was intended to be ironic.
It'll be interesting to see what argument everyone falls back on when MS is no longer a monopoly.
I dunno, did it go away? Did they get any effective action against them? Or did they laugh and go about their day? Yeah, that was it. Plus, the OEMs that sell Beemers are allowed to change the radios. Fuckwit.
I'm reminded of Bill Hicks line when people complained about him going on about JFK...
"Come on man, it was a long time ago, just let it gom OK?"
"Long time ago, huh? OK, I'll leyt JFK go if you'll shut up about Jesus"
Or brilliant words to that effect ;-)
J.
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
The OEMs would be free to ship with no operating system, but would probably want to ship *something*, so they may choose a Linux desktop. If Be were still around, this might have changed their fate, or perhaps Apple might choose to release OS X for x86.
A variant would be to prohibit site licenses or other volume discounts for Windows.
In exchange, Microsoft can "innovate" all they want, if that's truly what they think they're doing.
Which is secret APIs, codecs and file formats.
Open these up and Microsoft could bundle any damned thing they want and not be able to effectively leverage their monopoly status.
Bundling competing super secret (and often viral) formulas only compounds the issue, not relieve it.
Free standards means free competition.
KFG
Perhaps you should read a bit more as well. Both Dell and HP ship PCs with Real Player preinstalled as do Gateway.
"Microsoft contribute greatly to the US economy"
No, actually they levy a very large tax against it. Microsoft is a parasite that sucks the blood out of anyone who either uses computers directly, or buys products whose prices have been inflated by manufacturers, distributers, and/or resellers who feel they must send money to microsoft.
Microsoft does, however, contribute greatly to the economy of Taiwan, through its planned obsolesence (destruction of value) programs.
What are the range of punishments that the EU can hand out? I know that they can impose large fines, I believe as high as 10% of global revenues. Can they also ban a company from operating in the EU, or otherwise block its products? Not that I'm sure how they would justify such a ban (certainly, the inability to buy or import a Windows PC would create a great deal of consumer inconvenience initially), but is that an option?
I hate Windows Messenger. I hate the damn sticky key feature. I hate most of the accessories. Now, WMP ain't so bad, but BSPlayer is what *I* need. Did I mention ActiveX? Damn, I learned to hate IE... but, of course, is needed to patch Windows. MSN explorer? You keep it!
But, of course, to uninstall some of those you need to sell your first born male child... and the others (hint: IE) are just plain uninstalable.
You know what? It's an operating system. Bane EVERYTHING that's not using and following open protocols. TCP/IP? open - leave it. Outlook Express that connects to hotmail? Proprietary - erase it. IE? kind of uses open protocols, but we know it's not following standards. Bane it, or force them to change it. Oh, they want proprietary stuff? Ok, no prob, but not in the OS I paid for.
And, BTW, a ssh client would be nice, not to mention the daemon... I mean server.
Bite my shiny metal... oops... Nevermind!
This whole thing with the E.U. and M$ is nothing more than just the E.U. gov officials wanting *their* payoffs, just like the U.S. gov.s' politicians get. Notice that there has been *NO* talk of opening proprietary file formats, API specs, or anything that would *really* affect M$'s monopoly position, or it's ability to lock in customers, and lock out competition. The E.U. (the politicians) just wants a piece of the action. After a bit of haggling, and some strategic payoffs, M$ will continue on just as it has always done. *IF* the E.U. actually tried to affect M$'s monopoly status, the U.S. would retaliate against E.U.-based corps, and even governments. This is just a show, to distract the people, while the E.U. politicos and M$ negotiate a payoff.
Why aren't they suing BMW for including radios in their automobiles?? After all, it is a "value added" additional component. It's not a car. Why aren't aftermarket car stereo manufacturers banding together to petition the EU to sue BMW??? Why??
Because whether you have an aftermarket or stock radio in your car has ZERO effect on the standard format for radio broadcasts. THAT is strictly regulated by the FCC (in the US). There is no such regulation for file-formats, and network protocol streams. If one vendor can lock up the broadcast format with a proprietary scheme, then all other vendors would be locked out.
Your analogy fails to take this into account - and that's why bundling, in itself isn't a crime - but in the context of computer operating systems, where file formats and protocols are not open or regulated, we can all wake up one morning and find ourselves in a world owned by a corporation. It's not speculative paranoia.
I'm not advocating government regulation of file-formats and protocols (but effectively, that's what we have with the current software-patents and DMCA environment - but it has the OPPOSITE effect that rf spectrum regulation has). I think it's important that companies be allowed to compete in this area so that a "best of breed" solution can evolve. But when a monopoly ties up the marketplace and excludes competitors, someone's got to step in somewhere, because the invisible hand ain't gonna fix it.
What I am advocating is a special class of patent, or perhaps the application of copyright law instead, some government regulation which mandates interoperability, (or, perhaps, in return for patent protection, open-source is required, so that interoperability can be maintained without infringing on IP), and that has to be overseen by a standards body, because the interoperability-vs-noninfringement is a delicate balance that would have to be intelligently maintained on a case-by-case basis - unworkable? Probably. Prone to abuse? Most likely. But better than the situation we have now. Closed, proprietary formats and protocols are the problem. Not necessarily bundling. Bundling is just higher-up the food chain, where lawyers can get a foothold, because the law doesn't deal with protocols very well.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
I've been wondering about this. I visited the Microsoft Update site the other day, to download something for my WinXP box. While there, I noticed that some of the security patches go out of their way to say that they are necessary for any PC with Internet Explorer version n installed, even if you don't use it as your web browser.
If the very presence of the software on my machine can cause a security vulnerability, that's surely a compelling argument that just optionally removing the front-end (basically a couple of icons and some menu entries) but still leaving the back-end around is not an adequate standard of "independence".
That's on top of the irritating way that options in Outlook Express now seem to be affected by what the user does in Office, and can't be changed back within OE itself, or the way that resizing the text in IE seems to affect help viewed in numerous other apps, again requiring some relatively fiddly setting to revert it to normal, which in turn reverts IE anyway.
One of these days, I really will get around to intalling a Linux distro on that 25GB partition I've been leaving aside on my new (a year ago...) PC. :-)
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.