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HP Dumped Napster for Apple

Pieter Townshend writes "Found on GMSV: 'In the days leading up to Napster's re-launch last October, a deal that would have put Napster links on millions of Hewlett-Packard computers went bad. HP withdrew from the agreement at the last minute, its reasons for doing so becoming clear three months later when it announced a surprise partnership with Apple to feature the iTunes Music store on HP computers and sell Hewlett-Packard branded iPod music players.'"

25 of 236 comments (clear)

  1. It was probably the hardware... by AzrealAO · · Score: 4, Informative

    HP decided they wanted to sell rebranded iPod's, so they went with iTunes.

  2. Huh!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    AAC has DRM too

    1. Re:Huh!? by dasmegabyte · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, yes and no. Tracks you download from iTunes have DRM, but AAC in and of itself is an industry support subset of the MPEG-4 standard. Think .MP4...which is what some people have been calling it (in fact that was the default extension from my non-Apple AAC transcoder until iTunes came out, now it's .m4a).

      WMV, on the other hand, is exclusively owned by Microsoft. It's also available in non-DRM flavors, but is only licensed for use on platforms that have been granted MS' okay. Which are few, basically just Windows and OSX, maybe X-box.

      You need licenses for either format, but AAC licenses are available to anybody with available reference implementations. And I think -- think, mind you -- that AAC doesn't require a license for free-as-in-price encoders/decoders written by hobbiests. At the very least, you can get free decoders at www.audiocoding.com, open source of course.

      So yeah, AAC's not open like Vorbis. But unlike Vorbis, the industry invested a lot of research into it and actually wants to use it. As such, AAC is heading for the same popularity as MP3, whereas WMV is looking more like, well, ASX. Vorbis will eternally be a hacker's tool because it doesn't have the visibility nor the clout of AAC in the industry...but as it's going to be eternally tweaked, it will no doubt continue to sound better at comparative bitrates.

      --
      Hey freaks: now you're ju
    2. Re:Huh!? by pyros · · Score: 5, Informative

      I know it was half-joke, but it's not that Apple DRM is good, it's that Apple's DRM policies are recognize fair use rights. The only serious complaint I have heard about the format you get from iTunes is that you have to burn to CD and then rip that to get MP3, which results in potential loss of quality. But the ausio CD you burn from the protected AAC file is a redbook compliant audio CD with no restrictions on it.

    3. Re:Huh!? by TALlama · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, the newest versions of WMA DRM don't work on OSX.

      --

      - The Amazina Llama

    4. Re:Huh!? by shotfeel · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, its not Apple's DRM either. They license it from a 3rd party (Freeplay), who AFAIK is free to license it to companies other than Apple.

  3. Re:One reason why I think by wo1verin3 · · Score: 5, Informative

    >>Also it does cost $.99 do download the song
    >>form Napster, so you have to pay for access
    >>then to download. From Napsters
    >>(www.napster.com) front page "Choose your own
    >>tracks for $0.99 each, or get the whole
    >>enchilada for just $9.95 per album."

    You're confusing two different things.

    Napster allows the following:

    1) Subscribe for $10 a month and have unlimited download access to songs, you can not burn these but can download so as long as you are a subscriber. The vast majority of the library can be accessed by download but there are a select songs that are 'buy only'
    2) Purchase a single track for $0.99. No subscription required.
    3) Purchase a single album for $9.99. No subscription required. It's a one time purchase and not tied to anything else.

  4. it's a business decision by mm0mm · · Score: 4, Informative

    Napster is compatible only with Win---s XP and 2K. Not even with 98 or NT will you have access to it. Meanwhile HP -- iPod by HP; Linux by HP? Maybe HP wants to diversify their products and is aware that relying too much on one technology will limit their business. IMHO HP has better business sense than Roxio, who targeted Napster only to part of 94% desktop users.

  5. You have no clue. by Saeed+al-Sahaf · · Score: 3, Informative
    Basically, the computer manufacturers are choosing which programs the end user will use for listening to music, which antivirus software they will use.

    No, computer manufacturers are choosing which programs they, as manufacturers, want to pre-load on a machine. It may or may not have to do with contracts or what the sales guys want, or even what the hardware developers want, or download what you want. The point is, it you don't like what's loaded on your machine when you buy it, go to any decent hardware retailer and build your own parts, it's all plug and play, no tech experience required. It's an afternoon project. Then load what you want. But a manufacturer can load whatever fit's their fancy.

    --
    "Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
  6. Re:iTunes vs. Napster by eclectic4 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Just an FYI, you can burn as many audio CD's of them also to play in any CD player. While the quality will obviously not be of the usual CD variety (as you are creating the AudioCD from rather good AACs, but still compressed nonetheless), you still do not have to burn them onto MP3 disks to listen to them sans iPod or computer.

    It's the best DRM/Purchasing out there, which is why iTunes MS has risen to the top.

    --

    "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
  7. Re:AAC versus WMA by sharlskdy · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's nice to see an alternative to WMA catching on, and this deal with HP gives AAC a huge boost, breaking away from the perception that it is confined to the Mac world.

    I've been looking at the choices in media media formats and I have not been very happy with the fact that WMA (WMA7 from what I have learned) has been showing up everywhere. I don't want to have a MS-proprietary format running everywhere. I know it's supposed to make my life easier (and make it easier for MS to extract more money from me later, and don't tell me they aren't trying to think of some way to do this).

    With iPod Mini and iPod-HP, iTunes pre-installed on HP computers, with a very significant market share being carved out, and with AAC as the contendor to WMA it seems as though Apple has done the right thing at the right time. Once AAC is established as the popular everyman's format, then consumers will be locked into Apple's system.

    This isn't something someone can just Netscape. Once someone is locked into a format, then any purchased music is stuck in that format. Unless the record store allows you to go back and download the media in an alternative format, you are stuck on that format (apart from burning / ripping yourself, but then you'll have aliasing issues to deal with).

  8. Re:Margins? by EvanTaylor · · Score: 5, Informative

    apple makes about 27% profit margin on all hardware, ipods included. Their PR for investors explains this.

    --
    Sleep is for the weak.
  9. Re:iTunes vs. Napster by shawnce · · Score: 4, Informative

    burn them onto MP3 disks

    Just a small correction: You can burn them to audio disks, you cannot transcode them to MP3 but have to encode from an audio disk to MP3.

    (of course solutions exist to get around this but their use is not allowed for by the iTMS usage terms).

  10. Re:Wrong - Re:One reason why I think by pyros · · Score: 4, Informative

    It was advertised that music obtained through the unlimited subscription model was only playable (without cracking the protection, violating the DMCA) while you were still a paid subscriber. This would have to imply you can't legally burn it to redbook audio CD.

  11. Re:i would love to have been a fly on the wall... by pyros · · Score: 3, Informative
    Since HP sells exclusively Windows products

    They sell a desktop, the d220, with Mandrake, no MS license bundled into that price. They also sell quite a few servers with Linux on them. In fact, they support Linux quite a bit.

  12. Do the math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    1 Million iPods at $300 each and 27% profit is $81 Million dollars of raw profit... and Apple has sold more than a million... and many of them were for $400 or $500.

    I'm sure Dell wishes they made that kind of money off their laptop division.

    1. Re:Do the math by klubar · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you look at the bottom-line numbers Dell is much more profitable. Although their gross (above the line) margin is much less, their SG&A costs per unit (or per revenue dollar) are much, much less than Apple's. The gross margin costs do not include development, sales or marketing (and administration). The marketing cost per unit for Apple's iPod is huge ... it's a fact of life of being a smaller vendor with much higher development costs. Dell's profit as a percent of sales is more than twice as high as Apple's. If you look at the stock prices over any period, it pretty much tell's the story.

  13. Re:Margins? by GizmoToy · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is just not true. I forget when, but Apple publicly released information to investors showing that they made between $50 and $150 per iPod, depending on the model. This is due to the extensive discounts they receive by buying the components in huge quantities. You might remember that the original iPod debuted at the exact same price as the hard drive it contained ($399, if I'm not mistaken).

  14. Re:Question: by Arkham · · Score: 3, Informative

    iTunes is a Carbon app, not Cocoa. So, never, unless Apple rewrites it.

    --
    - Vincit qui patitur.
  15. Re:The other problem. by Smack · · Score: 3, Informative

    Personally, what I dislike about the iTunes radio is a different problem: that I can't say "hey, I don't want to listen to X specific song". With Napster, even in the "radio" mode you can delete future songs from the playlist or skip ahead any time.

  16. In defense of Napster by rbeattie · · Score: 1, Informative


    I pay the $9.99 a month for the online service and it's great. Ten bucks gets me 10 songs on iTunes, but gets me streaming access to just about every son in Napster's catalog. It's so great when someone says something about a song and you can click-click and start playing it immediately, or someone talks about a new album and you can start listening to it right away as well.

    I know I can't take it with me and the songs aren't mine, but you know what? I'm a geek. I'm online 15 hours a day. Excercise? Life outside? Are you kidding me? WTF do I need a portable music player for? My fat ass is tied to my Aeron or my fold-out IKEA chair for 98% of my waking hours. Napster to me is perfect.

    -Russ

    --
    Me
  17. Re:Question: by CottonEyedJoe · · Score: 4, Informative

    As others have mentioned iTunes relys on an API that is not available under GNUStep. Additionally, even if iTunes was Cocoa, and could thus be compiled using GNUStep, it would have to be recompiled to do so, AND for each architecture it ran on. iTunes is NOT open source, only Apple could recompile it. Many people misunderstand GNUStep, believing it is some form of Cocoa emulator and can run binaries built on a mac with cocoa, it cant. GNUStep is a reimplimentation (and an imcomplete one) of Cocoa and apps have to be built with GNUStep in mind.

  18. Re:Napster's a baggage by dasmegabyte · · Score: 2, Informative

    Uh, Napster, LLC, is gone. Roxio just bought their assets, including the name. They combined that with PressPlay, a stupid music service that had at least 2 shitty incarnations before coming out as the new Napster 2.0.

    IANAL, but if a company breaks the law and then goes chapter 11, you can't be held accountable for their actions if you buy their liquidated assets. I mean, if I buy one of those fancy, meshy office chairs from the Enron yard sale, you couldn't sue me for sitting in it. Roxio is sitting on the Napster name.

    --
    Hey freaks: now you're ju
  19. Re:The problem with "legal" music services... by djeaux · · Score: 2, Informative
    There are also a handful of tracks from his set at Carnegie Hall in 1964 that claim to be exclusive to iTunes.

    Actually, this is soon to be a "legit." Titled Bootleg Series 6, it now has a release date of 23 Mar 2004. The iTunes "exclusive" is a pre-release promo.

    Remember, if it's on iTunes, it is approved by the artist's record company. Last time I checked, Dylan was not contracted to Doberman, Wanted Man, Yellow Dog, Sick Cat, Crystal Cat, or Trademark of Quality, although those labels have definitely released more of his stuff than Sony/Columbia...

    --
    "Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray" (Bob Dylan)
  20. Re:Wrong - Re:One reason why I think by Black+Jack+Hyde · · Score: 2, Informative
    I do use the service. And as a subscriber you can download songs and burn those songs to CD. The exceptions are songs marked with the red Buy Only tag.

    You don't think at above a 3rd grade level, do you?