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Girls in the Gaming World
dkleinsc writes "The BBC is running an article about life as a female gaming squad. There's some discussion about the welcome or lack thereof women get in the gaming community, and arguments over whether it's a good idea to have separate women's matches."
Are "gamers" that insecure about their masculinity/sexuality/gaming prowess/dick size/pick something else that they're afraid of playing against girls?
My girlfriend loves Mario Kart: Double Dash and it makes me happy it's one of the hobbies we can share.
If playing against girls makes you uncomfortable, don't play games at all!
Sithu Thein's comment is the most interesting: "Why do they bother having women only events for internet gaming? Within sport, I can see the reasoning for sexual segregation - women simply are not as big, fast or strong as men. Thus there needs to be a separate contest for men and women in order to keep a level playing field. Last time I checked the x and y chromosomes were not linked to reflexes, hand - eye coordination, and visual acuity. Men are not going to be able to use any of these physical attributes to gain an advantage. As their advantages are thrown out of the window, so too goes the reasoning for segregated gaming. As for women feeling that men make them feel unwelcome in the world of CounterStrike - history is just full of instances where the dominant group in a field has made it perfectly clear what they think of any 'New Kids on the Block'. You just have to try that little bit harder. Sithu Thein, UK" I totally agree with him. I thought on-line gaming should finally make the genders compete at the same level, but I'm really sad to see that women still are set to "female compos". I understand that women actually may want this, since they still might meet some harassment and such (i can only guess what a 15year old guy say when he hear the enemy is a woman), but I still hoped compos with big prizes should have teams from both genders.
I am a girl in the gamming world and I think having seperate matches for woman is rather stupid. It is a game, it is ment to be fun, and if some girls suck gamming then they can suck it up, practice, and get better.
"Most interesting how often you humans seem to obtain that which you do not want" -Spock
My wife got started on computers games playing the original tribes. It started out with me showing her the basics and helping her get started. I'd have her switch to my team so I could show her tactics, etc. Soon, she started playing a lot on her own.
Fast-forward to a few weeks later, and I would lose to her in duels 90 percent of the time. She would hit top scores on servers routinely, and I started switching to her team any time we played together so I wouldn't always be on the losing team.
The funny thing was, no one believed it was really a woman playing when she'd kick their ass.
-i
actually, it is a well-documented fact that while on average men are superior in the areas of simple strength, and aggressive competitive behavior comes more easily to men than women, women have significantly faster reaction time, better accuracy, and the ability to track more targets at one time. this was discovered specifically relating to women being fighter pilots, but i'd bet it's valid for twitch games too. what holds most women back is that they lack confidence and are not aggressive enough. that and they are scared that people will think they are a "bitch" if they act aggressive. it's sad that society beats that sort of thing into them... i'll tell ya this, my fiance hands me my ass at tekken...
sometimes, i wonder if i'm the only conservative on teh intarweb. ah well, back to mah hogs and warmongerin'....
They're playing Sims, Dance Dance REvolution, and other social, simulation and interactivity-based games. That's where the real interest lies and the market is huge. Sims 2 will BLOW AWAY Far Cry and Pain Killer and maybe even DOOM 3 because 51% of the population that own a computer and play games are going to buy it.
Well , this is not a one off. They have seperate chess matches for women though women do participate (and win) is general open to all matches. There are even "Women Grand Masters" , why they just dont just use Grand-mistress is a mystery though.
Its probably like having amateur and pro events. If there are a lesser number of women participating, probably makes sense to let them win some matches and encourage them to play more, maybe? Or maybe just targeted advertising?
.ACMD setaloiv siht gnidaeR
Guys don't make up as large a percentage of the market as they think. Games are marketed towards guys because guys are marketing them. I'm not sure what the numbers are right now, but in 1999, 43% of PC gamers were women. 53% of those gamers play online. Only 43% of male gamers play online, which should make the ratio of males to females online almost 1:1. Source
I was playing an online game ( I think it was Battlezone by Activision) a few years ago and my handle was gender neutral. Someone asked if I was male / female. I was taken back by that question as why would it matter? I said female to see if it mattered. Boy did it. I had players taking damage by jumping between me and an opponent, players nearly killing off someone and then leaving the prey for me to finish off to up my score, and even offering tips! Normal protocol is to be mean, rude, and blast everything that moves and even some that don't.
Its one world but not everyone experiences it the same way.
...was regularly ranked in the top ten Tribes players in the world, according to the realtime stats at some site that tracks such things. She used to play 10+ hours/day 5+ days/week.
It was interesting to see the varied reactions of the guys. She didn't advertise that she was female, but if it came up the first reaction was usually disbelief and dismissal -- they assumed she was a guy lying about his gender. Then after adequate proof (using voice comm in game, for example) they'd be surprised, but accept the truth. Then they wanted to see pictures.
There were basically two reactions: anger and attraction. It was usually the younger guys who got angry -- for some reason they were pissed off that a girl could beat them. They'd get all bitchy at her and call her names, claim she was cheating and disappear. Maybe they'd be like that with anyone. Who knows?
Most of the older guys (heh -- meaning past puberty) ended up getting attracted to her. In fact a whole bunch of guys would flock around her online wherever she went... be it gaming, or IRC.
She went to TribesCon IV in Reno a couple years ago, and she was one of maybe three girls who came to play... out of 200+ total gamers. There were lots of girlfriends there, but they stayed off to the side.
Some of the guys became quite taken with her (it doesn't hurt that she's a hottie). Which got a little weird. Eventually she retired and got back into real life.
Cheers.
Its not so much that women can or can't participate in the same brackets as men.
The point is that the winnings of any competition are distributed by the mandates of the competitions holders, not those participating in it. We live in a capitalist society (well most of the world anyways) and that means that the man with the money makes all the rules. If the competitions holders want to discriminate then that is their prerogative. Its not like you are forced to participate in that competition if you feel the policies to be discriminatory. There are plenty of other competitions that aren't discriminatory.
Likewise, those admins on public servers that wish to be can be as discriminatory as they want. Discrimination is not illegal, only more expensive. A company that wants to maintain its right to be selective about its employees without regard to equal opportunity simply have to pay fines and be marked as such. The government isn't going to put them out of business because of this.
But then again I don't really see the point of playing to the point that you are so good to warrant going to any of these competitions. That's just too much time invested in a practice that can't pay the bills for the majority of those who participate. Its not like professional sports where all the athletes still make a living whether they lose or not.
The bottom line is, if its not yours then you have to live by the edicts of its owner when using it. Pretty simple concept really. Its surprising to see as many people as I do feeling entitled to equal access to someone else's holdings.
Recently, I completed reading Blondie24 -- Playing at the Edge of AI, an interesting book by David Fogel on his attempt to use evolutionary computation to evolve a high quality checker playing program. He tested his program by playing online against other checker players on The Zone, an online gaming network.
Early on, he discovered that his rather pedestrian nickname attracted few opponents, so he changed his online nick to be Obi_WanTheJedi, which seemed to attract a great deal more competition. As his program was revised and became stronger, he noticed that opponents would often become rude and angry as they fell behind, and would stall hoping he would drop out, or just disconnect, often after swearing like a sailor. Such drop outs made evaluating the games more difficult, so they tried a different strategy. This seemed worst among intermediate players: the better players were often much better sports.
They developed a cover story for Blondie24, a 24 year old female mathematics major. She was also single, attractive, and looking for a boyfriend.
They reported that they were on the receiving end of crude remarks and suggestions in about 1 in 3 games. Interestingly enough, the better players were reported to be uniformly polite, complimenting "her" on her excellent play at so young an age.
It seems rather obvious to me that women and men should be competing in the same competitions in this arena. The mere fact that fewer women play should not be a deterrent, nor do I think the prospect of easier money for women competitors merely by virtue of their being fewer female competitors is a good precedent to set. But perhaps all players should review their own behavior, and try to maintain a degree of fun and sportsmanship.
There is much pleasure to be gained in useless knowledge.
1) Player moderation (ie. voting people out of the game)
2) Voice chat
I was worried about #2 when it started out, but it actually does a lot to reduce the trash in online gaming. A lot of people won't say out loud the kind of words they'll type, at least not the extremes. There's still plenty of salty language out there, but there is a distinct difference between what people will say, and what they'll type.
Also, for the kiddies, the fact that they have to say the things out loud, inside their house, can make all the difference. I've kept a great post from a gaming message board about this: "I was watchin my cousin play [Return to Castle Wolfenstein: Tides of War] and then this lil kid comes on over the mic and says mother****er then the next u hear is a giant smack n then the kid starts crying roflmao....". Plus, anyone that tries to talk someone down in a squeaky kiddie voice usually gets laughed and humiliated out of the room.
As for women, I'll often let my girlfriend wear the headset for playing SOCOM II online, and let her do all the talking for me. She often gets attention, but she never gets harassed, and the majority of the undersexed kiddies are too shy to try and hit on her verbally. That, and everyone else audibly laughs at them and makes fun of them when they try.
Some malcontents are undeterred by voice chat, but it does help weed out a lot of it. For the rest, players being able to vote losers out of the game is a great feature. My main complaint is that too few games explore such a feature fully.
I am curious to hear your views concerning the dynamics of men entering female dominated competition. Unfortunately, that doesn't even merit consideration in the popular consciousness. Speaking as male in a female dominated profession, I can assure you no special allowances are given to me, and I had to endure the slings and arrows before I was respected for my abilities.
If anything, I resent any insinuations of what my capabilities should be. I shouldn't be expected to do all the heavy lifting (as my female compatriots were prone to do), nor should I be seen as incapable of delicacy. But that is a common experience. That changes with demonstration. We are paid the same, do your job to the best of your abilities.
I am of an ethnic minority, and I resent any implication that I can't compete. I also resent you tarnishing any of the achievements women have made. Diane Nyad, Curie, Lynn St. James, Michelle Wie, etc.; they did better than compete, they set new standards. No "demographic" can take that away from them.
When my black friends call me an honorary nigga for all the struggles overcome, I'm guessing I might know something about disadvantage. It's meaningless; you will either respect me or not. That changes nothing that I do.
My mother has accomplished much with limited prospects, especially in a time when it was unfashionable for women to do so. When I make mention that she might be an unsung revolutionary, she laughs. The first person to underestimate her is making a fatal mistake. She resents any implication that she needs accomodation. As she is fond of saying: "You were born here, you speak the language, you know the culture. What is your problem?"
"The "advantage" of being seen as nothing more than a dickcozy..." Thank you for reducing my sexuality to exploitation. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy to know my romantic pursuits are simply degrading to the other party.
Maybe it would be better to know less about disadvantage and more about valor.
In you are going to compete, compete. Arbitrary rules only foster the idea of inability. Girls still seem to accomplish beyond what you might say.