Real Pain Dulled In Virtual Worlds

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Real Pain Dulled In Virtual Worlds

Posted by timothy on Monday February 23, 2004 @07:32PM from the burns-are-serious dept.

26199 writes "The BBC is reporting on a novel use of Virtual Reality: as a distraction for burn victims who suffer excruciating pain during daily dressing changes. What's most interesting is that it actually works. Another use of VR discussed is in the treatment of patients suffering Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; memories can be relived until they are accepted."

29 of 237 comments (clear)

like dentists used to do with white noise by johnjosephbachir · 2004-02-23 19:35 · Score: 5, Informative

iirc, dentists used to do something similar. patients would wear headphones while procedures were being done. i think they would play some sort of white noise.

j
1. Re:like dentists used to do with white noise by gid13 · 2004-02-23 19:39 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  I have a feeling white noise would cause me a lot less trauma than those terrible radio stations that are always on in dentists' offices. Is it too much to ask to hear Comfortably Numb? It's THEMATIC, dammit!
Amazing... by Vthornheart · 2004-02-23 19:36 · Score: 4, Insightful

This could present some fascinating implications for medicine... Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is often one of the more difficult psychological disorders to treat, and is pretty much tops in the category of "anxiety-related" disorders. It would be a wonderful thing if it actually is useful in treatment.

--
-Vendal Thornheart
1. Re:Amazing... by fpga_guy · 2004-02-23 21:12 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  I have a friend who works on a similar idea in the rteatment of schizophrenia and other hallucinatory mental illnesses.
  They use VR and graphics technology to simulate the visual and auditory hallucinations that sometimes accompany these diseases. NewScientist had a small writeup
2. Re:Amazing... by UpnAtom · 2004-02-24 02:16 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is often one of the more difficult psychological disorders to treat,
  
  Difficult for whom to treat in what way?
  
  PTSD is one of the easiest to treat in my experience (7 years as a clinical hypnotherapist). You know exactly what the problem is (recurring memories), and you know what the therapeutic outcome is (ability to remember whilst remaning calm). Where's the difficulty?
  
  and is pretty much tops in the category of anxiety-related disorders.
  
  tops??? Who modded this up?
  
  It would be a wonderful thing if it actually is useful in treatment.
  
  The drug companies have a near stranglehold over psychiatry. Without big money to fund the trials and marketing, it will never reach mass-usage.
Safe? by CelticWhisper · 2004-02-23 19:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

Call me a skeptic, but it seems like there's still a lot of room for potential damage from this. PTSD patients reliving memories until they're accepted? Doesn't that seem a little like forced traumatic recollection? I mean...yes, I'm sure it would have some desensitizing factor, but is that really a good thing? I don't necessarily know that I'd be jumping to sign up...

--
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1. Re:Safe? by Vthornheart · 2004-02-23 19:40 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Well, the trick of PTSD is that, for most people, the daily struggle to not remember (and avoid things that remind them) is much more traumatic. Imagine walking down a street, and a certain type of tree or smell in the air sets you off. Between having that and having one extremely painful session of emotion-dulling via reliving the experience, I'll take emotion dulling. At least it will bring a somewhat permanent conclusion.
  This is, of course, assuming that it actually WORKS. =)
  
  --
  -Vendal Thornheart
2. Re:Safe? by venicebeach · 2004-02-23 19:40 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Exposure therapy is not pleasant, but it does tend to work. I don't know much about PTSD, but for anxiety disorders and phobias exposure is quite effective and virtual reality techniques have been becoming more and more popular for this. For treating someone with public speaking anxiety it's easier to get a virtual audience than to arrange for a bunch of people in a room...
3. Re:Safe? by farquharsoncraig · 2004-02-23 19:44 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I mean...yes, I'm sure it would have some desensitizing factor, but is that really a good thing?
  It's not the desensitizing factor, but rather the acceptance/understand factor. It would be a dissapointing tragedy of the worst kind indeed were you not able to, over the course of your life, eventually overcome and have sovereign dominion over your own body and mind.
4. Re:Safe? by harvardian · 2004-02-23 19:46 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  I took an anxiety disorders class with one of the most famous voices in PTSD (McNally), so IANAP but IW a student of a psychologist.
  
  One of the aspects of virtual reality treatments for phobias (we didn't study its use for PTSD) is that the patient is always accompanied by their psychologist, and they always have the option of opting out, even mid-simulation. And a nice fact of psychology is that if you have a feeling of control (whether you have control or not), you're less likely to run away. So while many may be too fearful to go through with the treatment, it happens in a supportive, controled environment, and that can be very helpful. The result may well be better than what we've got now, since PTSD's not easy to treat.
5. Re:Safe? by useosx · 2004-02-23 20:36 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  I really think I am going to regret bringing this up on Slashdot, as it is inevitably going to be misinterpreted.
  
  But... victims of sexual abuse sometimes sometimes end up having sexual fantasies about that abuse.
  
  I recommend the following three articles by Betty Dodson as she, I think, understands the issue well. WARNING EXPLICIT CONTENT for those who care.
Detachment from Reality by laymil · 2004-02-23 19:38 · Score: 5, Insightful

So what happens when they come to rely on these techniques - people develop addictions to VR, just like they develop addictions to painkillers?

Sounds scary to me. Picture a person who can't live in the outside world because they have developed a psychological disorder based on the fact that the outside world only gives them pain.

Or the Slashdot reader who wants to experience VR so badly that he lights himself on fire...
that last one is definitely more likely, isn't it?
1. Re:Detachment from Reality by CB-in-Tokyo · 2004-02-23 20:43 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  While it is certainly possible to develop addictions to VR, it is a bit of a mistake to compare them to addictions to painkillers. Most of the painkillers that you hear about in terms of addiction are the in the family of natural or syntetic opioids. These drugs cause physical changes inside the body that lead to a dependency on the substance itself. This physical dependency is what is usually being talked about when you hear the term "addiction" concerning these products. This dependency can be so strong, that if you cut off the chemical altogether, the patient can die.
  Having said that the problem of addiction to the VR, as you mentioned, is a real one. People become addicted to all sorts of activities, gambling, extreme sports, and sex to name a few.
  VR is realtively new, and being used for a treatment for pain should undergo studies to check to see if addiction may be a problem, or if there are any other adverse effects...like the flaming slashdotter!
Somehow ... by RPI+Geek · 2004-02-23 19:41 · Score: 5, Interesting

... this part of the article rubs me the wrong way:
In collaboration with Cornell University in New York, Hoffman has built a virtual reality programme that is a simulation of the events of 9/11 designed to desensitise the patient to the events of that day.
It just seems too "Clockwork Orange" to me... :-/

--

- "Nobody came out that night, not one was ever seen. But Old Man Stauf is waiting there, crazy sick and mean!"
1. Re:Somehow ... by westendgirl · 2004-02-23 19:53 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Unfortunately, I think CNN's constant running of WTC clips subtitled "American Under Attack" has already had this desensitizing effect. The images don't make me retch the way they used to. Is this the passage of time, or the effects of seeing the same thing several thousand times?
  
  --
  -- SYS 64738 --
2. Re:Somehow ... by fenix+down · 2004-02-23 20:05 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  No, Clockwork Orange had all that elegant Kubrick style. This looks like Microsoft Paint shit all over my Metroid cartridge.
I need this for school by Flingles · 2004-02-23 19:41 · Score: 5, Funny

This would be great for relieving all that "intense pain" that I experience during class/study time.

--
Karma: -2^0.5 . Mainly due to the imbibing of dihydrogen monoxide
Dulls the Pain of Social Rejection by spun · 2004-02-23 19:42 · Score: 5, Funny

Scientists today discovered that Virtual Realities can dull the excruciating pain of social rejection suffered by millions of geeks and nerds on a daily basis. It also helped them recover from the Post Traumatic Stress of Wedgies, Wet Willies and the dreaded Rear Admiral. Lead Scientist Nelson Muntz claims 9 out of 10 nerds enjoyed a Virtual Rear Admiral far more than the real version.

--
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Why not slashdot by foidulus · 2004-02-23 19:48 · Score: 5, Funny

Why not just have them read slashdot at -1, that usually makes me forget about my painful, painful life....ow...existance
Re:I believe we already have a cure... by Vthornheart · 2004-02-23 19:53 · Score: 4, Insightful

That also poses a point about the great benefits for Burn Victims... I've been focusing on the PTSD part of it a bit too much...
Finding a way to distract patients from pain is a far greater solution than medication. No side effects, no expensive or addictive substances to use (well, those who really like MMORPGs would disagree with my "addictive" statement, but...), and in general would be preferred over medication.
I mean, this daily dressing routine... it takes only a fraction of the day. Giving them morphine for it then ruins the majority of their day, as they spend it in a near-lifeless stupor. And without anything, those few minutes of the day would no doubt be torturous...

--
-Vendal Thornheart
Distraction by ChimpyMonkey · 2004-02-23 19:54 · Score: 5, Insightful

..how is this any different from when you were a child, your mother distracting you from injuries with a lollie/toy? I know it used to work on me, and it sure works on my girls. It seems a bit of a reach to claim this is anything new.
Re:I believe we already have a cure... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-02-23 19:56 · Score: 4, Interesting

Ok troll.

I can tell you I just got out of the hospital after having a tension pnuemothorax (life threatening)and I can tell you that morphine is about as useless as a nun with two tits. Might as well just smoke some 7up (the *good* addicts will know what I mean).

Morphine is useless. It does nothing but make you want better drugs. The pain is still there. A good hit of some BC Bud would do much better. Plus, I can't walk straight after morphine.
Re:I believe we already have a cure... by beaverfever · 2004-02-23 20:02 · Score: 4, Informative

"It's called morphine."

Wow - that's quite a medical breakthrough you have made. I'm sure the global medical community would like to hear more about this as it seems this idea never occured to them to use painkillers before.

Okay, enough with the sarcasm. If you had paid closer attention while reading the article you would recall this:

"Dr Hunter Hoffman, research fellow at the Harborview Medical Center in Seattle, has tested his virtual worlds on victims of burns injuries who suffer excruciating pain during their daily dressing changes which conventional drug therapy fails to control."

That's gotta be a lot of pain.

--
RTFM; please, I beg you.
Funny enough... by sunbeam60 · 2004-02-23 20:04 · Score: 4, Funny

I had a HGNS while taking my JKL, so HYSA and he LPHN'ed me.
Try it in OB/GYN! by sssmashy · 2004-02-23 20:07 · Score: 4, Funny

"Pain requires conscious attention. Humans have a limited amount of this and it's hard to do two things at once," he said.

I truly relish the day they give this VR "distraction therapy" to women giving birth...

Wife: OH MY GOD, THE PAIN!

Husband: Keep pushing, love! Keep pushing!

Wife: I AM! I'm trying, but he won't come out! Enough of this natural childbirth shit, I WANT AN EPIDURAL... oooh... hey, look over there...
Anxious Husband: What? What is it, honey?

Wife: it's a polar bear!
This has been going on for quite a while by FisterBelvedere · 2004-02-23 20:16 · Score: 4, Informative

I remember seeing a report on this probably around 10 years ago. The technology was in its infancy but was being used to adjust people with a fear of heights. A link with information along these lines (found it in 2 seconds on google) is here:
Here
even the screencaps look the same as in the story I remember, and they appear to have the look of 10 year old renderings.

--
FisterBelvedere -- Putting a whole new meaning to "streaks on the china" since 1996.
Post Traumatic Stress and other usages of VR by rpiquepa · 2004-02-23 20:39 · Score: 4, Informative

It just happened I wrote yesterday about the usages of VR to treat fears. A company named Virtually Better, based in Georgia, creates virtual environments mixing video images and computer-generated ones to help people deal with their fears and anxieties. In this article, the New York Times (free registration) writes this costs only 10 percent more than conventional therapy. The newspaper adds that therapists using this system claim a success rate exceeding 90 percent. Virtually Better "has created scenes of a glass elevator and a bridge to address fear of height, an airplane cabin for those who fear flying and a thunderstorm to diminish fear of bad weather." Other environments address the treatment of substance addiction or of post-traumatic stress. A (Virtual) Therapist's Dream contains selected excerpts. It also includes images on the virtual airplane environment.
Survivor Guilt by malia8888 · 2004-02-23 20:52 · Score: 5, Interesting

Some years ago I wrote a small book for the V.A. for spouses and children of veterans with PTSD. I found in talking to soldiers and other victims of PTSD that survivor guilt was such a crippling part of the disorder. So, I found this snippet encouraging in the article: One patient overcame her sense of guilt at running away from the scene and failing to help others who subsequently died.
If this treatment can truly help deal with survivor guilt, then it is a very useful therapy.

--
Harpo Tunnel Syndrome--my wrist feels funny.
Memories can be relived until they are accepted by RyatNrrd · 2004-02-23 20:53 · Score: 5, Funny

We found nuclear weapons in Iraq.
We found nuclear weapons in Iraq.
We found nuclear weapons in Iraq.