Slashdot Mirror


Corbis, DMCA, And John Kerry Photos

Phronesis writes "Photo District News is running a story reporting that three historic photos of John Kerry from the early 1970s, including the one used for the Jane Fonda forgery, were pirated from Corbis. The photographers who own the copyright on the photos are asking Corbis to use its fancy watermarking technology to find the culprit. Corbis hopes either to track the responsible people down using watermarks, or to invoke DMCA if the watermarks were removed."

20 of 804 comments (clear)

  1. Not a bad forgery..... by BWJones · · Score: 5, Informative

    Yeah so this is the problem with folks who don't ask questions. A quick examination of the forged image reveals differing light angles. However, other than that, the forgery (based upon an interpretation of the low resolution image from the link) is pretty decent. The cut lines are well concealed, and the brightness has been rather nicely matched. Of course the highlights in her hair have been darkened to match the background of trees and such, but here is(are) my question(s)..... 1) Who would be stupid enough to obtain a copyrighted image in a forgery attempt? 2) Unless this is an attempt by a right wing organization to discredit Kerry, why waste your time? Especially when you are lying?

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:Not a bad forgery..... by shark72 · · Score: 4, Informative

      "But could someone explain the Jane Fonda thing? What did that forged photo purport to show?"

      Many people consider Jane Fonda to be a traitor.

      That's why this forgery is significant: it isn't some innocent and harmless Fark-style "let's put him with Barney the Dinosaur and make a funny image." It was designed to instill hatred of the candidate by associating the two. The rationale is likely that while the fact that both protested the war might not be enough to convey a sense of guilt by association, it might make all the difference in the world by providing a photo of the two speaking together.

      --
      Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
    2. Re:Not a bad forgery..... by techno-vampire · · Score: 5, Informative

      She did mnore than that. She sat in the seat of an AA gun and said that she wished she could shoot it against an American B-52. If we had declared war, it would have been treason as defined in the Constitution. Those of us that were serving their country in Vietnam in those days still remember.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    3. Re:Not a bad forgery..... by Skjellifetti · · Score: 5, Informative

      But could someone explain the Jane Fonda thing? What did that forged photo purport to show?

      Jane Fonda is an actress, daughter of Henry Fonda, formerly married to liberal media mogul Ted Turner and also to SDS activist Tom Hayden. She was an opponent of the Vietnam War who made a trip to North Vietnam at the height of the war thus earning the sobriquet "Hanoi Jane." The political right in the U.S. hates her guts. By placing John Kerry with Fonda, they seek to make Kerry appear as a left wing traitor.

    4. Re:Not a bad forgery..... by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 4, Informative

      "very vocal", as in donning parts of an NVA uniform, and posing for pictures at the controls of a NVA AAA gun.

      "very vocal", as in lying about the treatment of US POW's.

      "very vocal", as in christening her son Troy after a Viet Cong hero, Nguyen Van Troi, who later tried to assassinate SecDef McNamara.

      "very vocal", as in "I would think that if you understood what communism was you would hope, you would pray on your knees, that we would someday become communists." - Jane Fonda, MSU, 1970

    5. Re:Not a bad forgery..... by That's+Unpossible! · · Score: 5, Informative

      The political right in the U.S. hates her guts.

      Ummm, no, more than just the political right hate her guts. Anyone ever associated with the military hates her guts. Any (informed) patriotic American probably hates her guts.

      You see, she did not just "make a trip" to N. Vietnam. She ENCOURAGED them to shoot down Americans. She visited an anti-aircraft battery that was used to shoot at/down American planes. She encouraged the enemy to continue fighting, and encouraged the Americans (over the radio) to essentially "give up." She even asked to pose in videos with American POW's, and some of those POW's later testified that they were tortured if they did not want to appear in the videos with her. Like a previous poster said, if war had been officially declared, she could have been executed for treason. As it stands, most people who know all the facts consider her a traitor to this day.

      This is why any photo showing Kerry at an anti-war rally with her is extremely damaging to his campaign. This is also why Jane Fonda has been trying to distance herself from him in recent interviews, because she knows she is so hated it could torpedo the Dem's campaign.

      Here is some more info from Snopes.

      --
      Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
  2. Re:/. sums it up nicely for once by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 5, Informative
    how ironic it would be to turn the DCMA against the rich people who are in power and would like to torpedo Mr. Kerry
    Mr. Kerry was in the Senate when DMCA passed unanymously, thus he voted for it. Would it be ironic if a law that a senator voted for, turned out to be useful to him? Not really.

    And as for contrasting "rich people" with Mr. Kerry, that's a very interesting spin you have chosen.

    --
    "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
  3. Re:Watermarks by lynx_user_abroad · · Score: 5, Informative
    I don't get how DMCA applies at all.

    The other part of the DMCA says stripping copyright information or other identifying marks from a copyrighted work in an attempt to avoid proper attribution is also a violation.

    It's in that part none of us got really upset about because most of us (even those who "pirate" regularly) still think the creator should get credit (just not control).

    --

    The thing about things we don't know is we often don't know we don't know them.

  4. Re:Watermarks by Salsaman · · Score: 5, Informative
    Actually, it is a crime under the DMCA, section 1202. There was an article on this very issue on groklaw.net. All they need to do is say that a watermark is copyright management information.

    Sec. 1202. Integrity of copyright management information

    . . . (b) REMOVAL OR ALTERATION OF COPYRIGHT MANAGEMENT INFORMATION- No person shall, without the authority of the copyright owner or the law--

    (1) intentionally remove or alter any copyright management information,
    (2) distribute or import for distribution copyright management information knowing that the copyright management information has been removed or altered without authority of the copyright owner or the law, or
    (3) distribute, import for distribution, or publicly perform works, copies of works, or phonorecords, knowing that copyright management information has been removed or altered without authority of the copyright owner or the law,

    knowing, or, with respect to civil remedies under section 1203, having reasonable grounds to know, that it will induce, enable, facilitate, or conceal an infringement of any right under this title.

    In other words "Thou shalt not do anything we don't like."

  5. Background On Photo from Guardian by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Informative
    Not necessarily. Heard that it was helping Kerry soften his pro-Iraq war support.

    That would seem ironic, considering it's apparent origins:

    From the Guardian

    Ms Fonda is reviled by many Vietnam vets for her wartime visit to Hanoi, and the image was widely aired over the internet by a fringe group of Vietnam veterans who have pursued a vendetta against Mr Kerry for years.

    In less than a week, the forgery travelled from a message board on a rightwing website to a Vietnam veterans' mailing list to mainstream organisations. Two British national newspapers - the Daily Mail and the Mail on Sunday - used the photograph in editions on Friday last week and at the weekend.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  6. Re:/. sums it up nicely for once by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Kerry probably qualifies as one of the "rich people" who are in power

    In fact, if Kerry is elected, he will the the 3rd richest US president ever (behind George Washington and JFK).

  7. Re:Interesting by Blic · · Score: 5, Informative
    Parody and "pranksters" is one thing - no one lost any sleep over this one or the pic of Dubya wearing the One Ring - but this is different. This was passed off as a legitimate AP photo to news organizations complete with fabricated story.

    And if you RTFA (I know, this is Slashdot) it's Corbis going after them for copyright violations, not Kerry.

  8. Re:Open-Source Watermarks? by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Informative

    This level of watermarking needs to be done every time an image is downloaded. The whole point is that they want to embed the IP address the image was sent to along with the timestamp so that there's enough to take a subpeona to the ISP to find out under what ISP account it was downloaded.

    That might not get us down to what person did it, but it very certainly would narrow the number of suspects into a very tight group...

  9. Re:/. sums it up nicely for once by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 4, Informative

    Forbes. Kerry was not poor before he married the Heinz heir.

  10. Re:/. sums it up nicely for once by DustMagnet · · Score: 5, Informative
    Mr. Kerry was in the Senate when DMCA passed unanymously, thus he voted for it.

    You are not required to vote in the Senate, but I checked and Kerry did vote yea .

    --
    'SBEMAIL!' is better than a goat!!
  11. Re:/. sums it up nicely for once by mapmaker · · Score: 5, Informative
    And you DO know his wife's maiden name, right?

    No. And clearly, neither do you. Her current last name, which she got from her first husband, is Heinz.

    I have no idea what her maiden name was.

  12. Re:/. sums it up nicely for once by LostCluster · · Score: 4, Informative

    Mr. Kerry was in the Senate when DMCA passed unanymously, thus he voted for it.

    Sorry your premise doesn't lead to that conclusion... A bill can pass unanimously by a score of 97 to 0 in the Senate. It's still unanimous because nobody voted "no", but that doesn't lead to the conclusion that all of the senators in office were present or that everybody that was present agreed, the losing 3-person side may have just chose to abstain.

    What happened in the Senate is that the Senate voted by "Unanimous Consent", which is to say not one senator spoke up to object to the bill being passed and/or request that an on-the-record vote be taken. This is often done for sure-to-be-disliked legislation because nobody has to vote "yes" either.

    Now, the thing is, to call for debate and a recorded vote on an issue that you're opposed to, but you're sure the other side has the votes it takes to pass is a waste of the Senate's time, and sure to make you some enemies who might start to do their best to muck up an unrelated issue that you're in favor of. Therefore, there's a downside to objecting, the only real thing you have to gain is to get your objection onto the record.

    Kerry, being a Senator, is going to be confronted with a lot of questions about the activities of the Senate and when he took action and didn't take action on them throughout the campaign. Candidates who run for a higher office after ahving any legislative position always have these questions... that's why it's more common for a former govenor to run for the office, they have far fewer on-the-record actions they have to justify, and total control of their own agenda rather than having to fight other legislators for control of a schedule.

  13. Re:/. sums it up nicely for once by NearlyHeadless · · Score: 4, Informative
    You DO know what the F. in John F. Kerry stands for, right? Hint, it's not Field&Stream.

    And you DO know his wife's maiden name, right? A well known condiment.

    Her maiden name was Teresa Simoes-Ferreira. She did inherit millions from her first husband, John Heinz. Kerry's middle name is Forbes, but he's not related to the Forbes magazine publishers.

    He does come from a wealth family, too

  14. Re:/. sums it up nicely for once by Phronesis · · Score: 4, Informative
    how ironic it would be to turn the DCMA against the rich people who are in power

    Of course, you might ask, "who owns Corbis?"

  15. Re:Watermarks by jpmjpm1 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually, the DMCA doesn't apply because you CAN'T remove a watermark, unless you have the original image! If you had the original image, why would you send out the one that has a watermark in it??? You would get caught...that would be stupid.

    Watermarking an image is pretty basic signal processing (go talk to your EE friends about it). You add a small amount "noise" to the signal (in this case, an image). This "noisy" image is then sent to people. To prove where a watermarked image came from, you subtract the original image from the watermarked/noisy image and you get the noise that you added. You compare this to your records and see who you you gave that noise pattern to.

    The problem with removing the watermark is that you don't know what noise was added, and there isn't a way to find out, unless you have access to the original. Another way of putting it is that A+B=C. If you only know C (the watermarked image), you can't find out what A and B are! (unless you know A (original image) or B (noise you added).

    --
    "The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't." --Douglas Adams