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Just What is a Custom Configured Server?

Posted by Cliff on from the the-difference-between-'product-options'-and-'custom' dept.

djhanson wonders: "I just got back from a small claims court proceeding against Apple Computer. They successfully won their argument in front of the court that selecting additional memory and disk drives for a computer/server at the time of purchase, off of their website, constitutes a 'custom configured computer built to the customer's specifications'. Said computer is therefore not eligible under the company policy to be returned. Has anyone else heard of such a thing? As near as I can tell, Apple is the only company that has such a restrictive policy. I called both IBM and HP, and neither of those companies has such a policy. Am I the only one that thinks there is something terribly wrong with a policy like this? Any opinions? Suggestions? Comments? Whatever?"

23 of 318 comments (clear)

  1. complicated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    on the (limited) information you've given it does seem a little unfair to you though, technically, the judgement was correct. You configured the machine, you are a customer, therefore it is a customer configured machine.

    There should be a warning on their site when you do configure the machine yourself that you won't be able to do certain things.

    an interesting point would be, what if you used the same customer configuration system to add in say some extra software or another battery for a laptop?

    1. Re:complicated by ssewell · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You should also note that Apple does not accept any third-party returns. Even if they're not functioning!

      When I received my order of Logitech Z680 5.1 Speakers from Apple, they were DOA. Apple wouldn't refund or exchange my order (as stated in their return policy), so I had to go through the manufacturer. And we all know how fun that is!

      Don't get me wrong, I love Apple products... but they really need to be more flexible about their return policies.

    2. Re:complicated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      1. Most people charge huge markups on their higher-end products and break even on the lower-end. Apple charges decent markup across the board. Notice how they're still in business and profitable, even these days? Smart business.

      2. The software being easy to use has nothing to do with the sales policies of the on-line store.

      3. If Dell wants to take back a custom config, remove the customized items, re-certify the unit, and sell it as a refurb at a loss then that's their stupidity. Once a product is out of the box it cannot legally be sold again as anything but used or refurbished, so companies that do this always take a loss.

      4. They make it perfectly clear on the store you are getting a custom config. When you add additional items or change existing ones the model of the product changes and the time to ship usually doubles (or more). If you look at the shopping cart before checkout it's painfully obvious. For instance, I just went through the store and selected a stock 2GHz G5. The model number was M9032LL/A and the time to ship was 1-2 bus. days I then went back and added RAM and got model Z07K and a time to ship of 5-7 bus. days.

      That, and if you change anything on the "Customize your computer" screen I would have to say it was customized...

    3. Re:complicated by emerrill · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A note about software and an extra battery. If you get the extra battery, its is listed as a separate line item and is shipped separately, so it does not count as custom config.

      If you get preinstalled software, then yes it is custom configed, but if you get not installed software it is not.

      Basicly if you change anything on the first BTO screen, then it is custom config.

    4. Re:complicated by localman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      you can see Apple's point. He gets it and doesn't like it, sends it back, and they have to pull out the RAM, extra HDs - a giant pain in the arse. Why should they?

      Ha ha ha! That's pretty funny!

      They should do it because it's their job to please their customers and it makes for good business. Anything less is basically stupid. That's right: stupid.

      I work for a company that bends over backwards to please our customers. We just instated a 365 day return policy. And we offer free return shipping. Yes, it's a giant pain in the arse. It costs us extra money. But customers love it. They always thank us, tell us how rare good treatment is, and pledge their loyalty when we go the extra mile like that. In the end, we've spent a little extra to do these things and got back tenfold in repeat business and word of mouth.

      Sure, there are cases where a customer is trying to rip you off. If the shoes are noticably worn when they're returned, we would balk at a full refund. But in most cases the customer is returning because they're honestly unhappy. Make them happy. That is your job as a business. You may lose a little money on this, and even get screwed occasionally by a complete jerk that you misidentified, but in the end you'll be better off because most people are respectable and fair and they appreciate being treated that way.

      Cheers.

      PS -- feel free to trash me for criticizing Apple. I'm a non-zealot Mac user so I'm used to it :)

    5. Re:complicated by kommakazi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Here in the US almost every time I've had to return defective hardware I had to deal directly with the manufacturer... it makes sense to me - the manufacturer should be held responsible for their own defective products. Also, by dealing directly with the manufacturer you cut out the middleman - which should generally result in an overall quicker return/exchange process...

  2. Yeah, Apple does that sometimes. by Pedro+Picasso · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sounds like your computer does fit that description in its barest sense. Good on you for actually going to small claims court, though. Good use of the system. Hope it was a neat experience. Unfortunately, yeah, Apple does screw people in a couple of places. It's unfortunate, but they don't have huge margins for their hardware, and they are hell bent on turning a buck. As far as consumer rights go, you got screwed, but at the same time, you could have read the terms of the sale beforehand.

    --

    --
    (sourceCode == freeSpeech)
    1. Re:Yeah, Apple does that sometimes. by shaitand · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This would be shady even if the customer added memory. But it's twice as shady when the customer requested additional memory and drives and apple installed and configured them!

      The reason for the policy is simple, they are cutting out some returns for starters and the overhead those machines would bring since they would need to either track those systems seperately or remove the memory/drives before putting them back in stock. This of course only makes sense if apple is in turn selling these systems as new again.

    2. Re:Yeah, Apple does that sometimes. by meta-monkey · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's why you never tell a company that you have done anything with their product that they do not expressly approve. This applies to everybody, not just Apple.

      However, case in point involving Apple. The video card in my G5 was bad. I'd get these green pixels flashing on the screen when I played a DVD or a video game. The video card also failed the Apple hardware test. So, I called AppleCare, and made absolutely certain not to tell them about the extra RAM I bought from Crucial and installed in the computer myself. Every time they asked if I'd modified the hardware in any way, I'd say "no, no, I don't even know how to do that..."

      They had me bring my G5 to a local Apple authorized service center, and they swapped out the card, and it works fine now. Of course, I removed the extra RAM before I brought it to the service center...

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  3. I call BS by Hungus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have certainly returned custom apple systems in the past and have not had any issue whatsoever with it. How long had you had it before trying to return it? Where is your court docket? You are way to lite on details for me to consider this anything but false at this point. Feel free to prove me wrong however.

    --
    Bad Panda! No Bamboo for you! In matters of importance ACs will not be responded to. Want to say something critical,OK
  4. Details by Compulawyer · · Score: 5, Interesting
    You leave out a number of basic facts that make it impossible to comment intelligently on your posting. I'd like to know:
    • What country/state are you in?
    • WHY were you trying to return the computer? Was it defective or did you just not want it after you got it?
    • How long did you have the computer before you asked Apple to accept a return? For that matter, DID you ask Apple to accept a return or did you just file suit?
    • If you did ask Apple to accept a return, how far did you escalate the matter? Did you stop at the first person who told you "no" or did you ask for that person's supervisor?
    If I was representing you in this matter, these are just the first of the questions I would be asking you, for two reasons: First, it is information that establishes whether you have a case. Second, they are the first questions the OTHER SIDE will ask you.
    --

    Laws affecting technology will always be bad until enough techies become lawyers.

    1. Re:Details by Compulawyer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But there ARE good ways to evaluate suitability - specifications are one. Recommendations by a salesperson are others. In fact, if a salesperson recommends a specific product based upon his knowledge of a customer's needs, an implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose arises as a matter of law when the sale is made. If the recommended product does not do what the customer said he needed the product to do, the implied warranty is breached and the seller is liable to the customer for the customer's damages. This usually means accepting the return of the product and/or having to pay the difference in price between what the seller sold and a comparable product that actually does what the buyer needs.

      --

      Laws affecting technology will always be bad until enough techies become lawyers.

  5. Re:You've been stung by kinnell · · Score: 2, Interesting
    it is a mater of Apple not willing to accept a return of the product.

    The point is, though, that the work is done by Apple, and should be done to as high a standard as the original manufacturing, and they should be prepared to offer a guarantee on it. Even with a well designed product, there is always a chance that a component will fail, and therefore the system should be fully guaranteed. It would be fair enough not accepting returns if the buyer had modified it, but not guaranteeing your own workmanship is a cop out.

    --
    If I seem short sighted, it is because I stand on the shoulders of midgets
  6. Re:uh.... apple treats their employees bad eh? by romulet · · Score: 2, Interesting

    apple here employs asembly line workers through an agentcy. The agency fee is deducted in an hourly rate through the employee's hourly wage for the complete duration of the employment.As a result the employee gets under the national minimum wage which is 7.35 euro's .I am in ireland. I know this as i was going to work there for the summer.

  7. Apple has horrible customer support - accept it by xtal · · Score: 4, Interesting

    People have tried writing Steve Jobs, petitions, you name it. They do this all the time with notebooks. Their ram and HD upgrades are a ripoff anyway, I just add that stuff later. Apple won't take the machine back if there is a problem.

    Worse, IMHO, is that there is no way to get Apple to send you a machine in the interim while yours is getting fixed. I make money with my hardware, and if I don't have a machine, that costs me a lot of money. So I have to have a backup machine just for that eventuality. Kinda stupid eh?

    Hey Apple Executives, if you ever read anything here, FIX THIS BEFORE IT BITES YOU. This is one part of Apple that is really lacking, and coinidentally I'm sure, it's also one that Steve Jobs doesn't have a lot of personal expertise with.

    I'm already paying a huge premium for Apple hardware. I would gladly pay a little more for the ability to get a hotswap done - Applecare does not offer this.

    --
    ..don't panic
  8. Re:You've been stung by splattertrousers · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I think Apple really wishes customers would simply go out (or online) and procure a bigger hard drive or more RAM themselves.

    If that's true, I wonder why the standard amount of RAM on all Macs is so rediculously low. If they threw in more RAM, perhaps fewer people would custom configure their computers.

  9. Small claims? by Anixamander · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What juridiction is this guy in? In my state, small claims court does not allow attorneys. You can still go to civil court for similar amounts and use an attorney, but not small claims. I can't imagine Apple going to court without an attorney. The usual tactic for big companies is to get the case moved to circuit court. This involves months of waiting to get on the docket and can be quite expensive. This story, if true, would be very odd.

    --
    Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball(TM)
  10. Re:You've been stung by kabocox · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think Apple really wishes customers would simply go out (or online) and procure a bigger hard drive or more RAM themselves. They go out of their way to provide instructions for installing these components and it really isn't that hard to do. Besides, it's far less expensive for the customer in the end, and you don't need to wait an extra week for the computer to be shipped by Apple...

    It would be easier in most industries if you did the work instead of the company. Hey, most people don't want to bother. But they would like to pay for what they want.

    I'll go to Wal-Mart, buy bookshelves and put them together myself. I'd much rather have a store deliver the bookshelves and set them up, but I don't want to pay for it. If I were willing to pay for it, I wouldn't be going to Wal-Mart.

    There are things that I'm willing to pay for so that they will be done right. The first bookshelf didn't turn out too well.

  11. Re:Sounds about right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That's pretty funny... I assume you're probably some retail grunt working part-time at an Apple Store whining because you didn't read the fine print of their holiday bonus promotions.

    I just left a job with Apple after about 5 years with them. I can honestly say that I've never worked for a company that treated its employees as well as Apple and the people I worked with were fantastic. In fact, if my wife wasn't offered such a large career opportunity out of state that practically doubled our income, I would still be working with them.

  12. Re:Sounds about right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm an Apple employee too, and you're full of shit. Employees are treated very well at Apple. What other company can you name that gives everyone a week off at christmas over and above normal vacation? This year, we even got the whole week for thanksgiving, too.

  13. Re:Sorry, but... by arkanes · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Because you aren't selecting from arbitrary parts or components and having them filled. There are PC manucaturers who will do this - you select the parts from thier inventory, they assemble/test and send it to you. They also have pre-built kits where you make minor modifications (512 megs of ram instead of 256), those aren't customized. Certainly buying the extended warranty is not buying a customized computer.

    Falconware will provide you with customized cases (including an airbrushed nude, I suppose) if you pay them enough. You can get your iPod with a peronsalized engraving - those are customizations.

    By your same argument, selecting the 40 gig iPod instead of a 30 gig could be consided a "customization", if it was presented as such. Is that reasonable?

  14. Funny, since Consumer Reports ranks Apple #1 by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Consumer Reports consistently ranks Apple #1 in lowest incidence of repair and best support among all computer manufacturers.

    Most recent Consumer Reports report available on their web site (June 2003)
    Most recent report, available to CR subscribers, referenced in News.com article (March 2004)

    So if Apple's support is "horrible", then I guess everyone else is a lot worse (especially since Dell, the next closest to Apple, got the middle rating on 3 out of 4 support categories, while Apple got the top rating in all categories).

  15. alienware by Suppafly · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Alienware and several small time pc sellers take a similar stance on 'customized' hardware, even when the customization is just adding harddrives or ram. It's pretty bad that Apple is doing this though, what would happen is Dell acted like this, every pc they sell is customized based on this logic.