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Xbox 2 Controller Loses Two Buttons, PS3 Gains One?
sbszine writes "Gaming rumors site C&VG is reporting that the the black and white buttons will be removed from the Xbox 2 controller, according to an un-named source. This would seem to support the reports of no backwards compatibility in Xbox 2. The site also has some interesting PS3 controller rumors: wireless control as standard, and a dedicated 'trigger' button for FPS games (in addition to the existing shoulder buttons)."
Most current fps games have a secondary fire (sometimes a scope or other feature if you're getting technical) on their weapons. They normally require a second button or trigger. Having just one trigger button doesn't make sense unless Sony plans on changing the fundamentals of most fps games. In this case, having the trigger for primary fire and a non-trigger button for secondary fire would feel clunky, if you ask me.
I'm not going to buy this rumor just yet, and hopefully it won't come true.
Until Slashdot fixes the funny modifier, use insightful or interesting. The poster knows your intentions.
- analog face buttons that feel just like digital click switches--WHY?? (really, they should have made the 4 triggers analog, although they would have probably still ended up being cheap feeling)
- poor positioning of the analog sticks (because they were after thoughts only put in due to the N64), not only do they cramp thumbs, but they make it difficult (if not impossible) to hit the start/select buttons without either hitting the sticks or contorting your thumb
- (3 things) analog stick is too loose, rubbery surface gives no grip for your thumb, lacks the 8-way "insert" found on the Nintendo sticks
- the broken up d-pad (killer on the thumb) which I do not understand because it's actually one piece of plastic under the surface
- "rounded" grips for holding comfort, unfortunately not round enough--makes me wonder why they even wasted the plastic if they weren't going to do it right
It would be a shame if Sony didn't mess with the dual shock design.I agree that the Dual Shock 2 (PS2) controller is just about the best gamepad you could buy, unless you have *very* specific needs for one thing or another. If you buy one and a USB adapter from Lik-Sang, you have just about the best gamepad in existence for playing Game Boy, GBA, NES, SNES, Neo-Geo, etc games on your computer.
I do think that a couple changes could be made worthwhile.
People joked about the size of the X-Box controller. While I do think that the thing was a bit awkward (and it was unusual), it did teach me that larger controllers aren't a particularly bizarre idea. I *would* like to have larger grips on the PS2 controller -- thicker and longer.
If Sony can put triggers on the PS2 without ruining the balance, more power to them. One thing I'd like to see -- the triggers being *analog*, unlike the X-Box's ridiculous digital triggers. It's so frusterating to both have no feedback in a trigger to know when it's activated, no click or anything, and to lack analog control, which would make up for not having said feedback.
May we never see th
I do think a new system should have new controllers. Being able to use a dual shock from a PS1 to a PS2 was a nice touch for some people though.
My favorite controller remains the dreamcast but the Xbox S controllers I have are pretty near and dear to my heart.
Some of my friends have ps2's and they can't deal with analogue, I guess the sticks are just too flimsy or something. Anyway we play fighting, FPS, and driving games(occasionally strategie).
Console controllers are terrible for all of these except fighter's, the driving games are what hurt the most because it would be so easy to just make the triggers analogue, all of the crappy physics could be negated with some analogue triggers and good force feedback. FPS's require triigers, they found that out with GoldenEye, granted it wasn't perfect but it was a lot closer, some of the more recent games have tried to offer more functionality with fewer buttons and have gotten burned(R6:Raven Shield, GTA:vice city[xbox]). Their success is due to the fantastic original design and they can afford to suffer from assbackwards menu's, when someone games on a pc they often have to deal with 20-25 buttons (proper voice and weapon binds) and mastering a game on a console means getting good muscle memory of controller layout. We can use more button's, your developers want them, what are you thinking?
My requests for next gen controllers (not listed above) are decent force feedback, and analogue sticks that are easy to use (Play station too loose, Xbox inside feels digital outside requires too much precision for casual gamers, Gamecube good god what were you thinking.
People keep complaining about the triggers on the ps2 or xbox, but I think the Gamecube triggers are great.
They are analogue, have a good range of motion and they have a digital click when you fully depress them and then push just a little more. It's great for precisely controlling speed in games like Rogue Leader so you can get behind a ship and tail them or boost away if you're in trouble. I don't understand why one would make an analogue trigger like the ps2's triggers. The range of motion would be so short fine controll would be way to hard.
Also, the Gamecube triggers are nice and comfortably curved so you fingers don't slide off or cramp while trying to hold them in place, it just kind of cradles your fingers where they should be. That, and Nintendo obviously made the right choice in putting the left joystick under the thumb's natural rest. I absolutely hate the left joystick on the ps2 controller, you have to angle your hand all janky, or the joystick sits under the joint of the thumb instead of under the nailbed like it should. Using both joysticks on the ps2 requires me to rotate both hands into an uncomfortable position, ugh. The triggers suck and those afterthought joysticks HAVE to move!
"Cheeze it!" - Bender
I agree about the GameCube's controller. A big primary button, a small secondary button, and "X", "Y" and "Z" in the same direction as in the 3D co-ordinate system.
I think it is very interesting that while Nintendo has been talking recently about simplifying gameplay and having games that use only a single button, Sony is making their controler more complicated.
I think the end result will be the PS3 appealing to the college and up crowd, and the Nintendo Hypercube appealing to the younger crowd, families, and old school gamers. In fact, very close to the current situation.
Fortunately, Sony has figured out that one of the best things Nintendo has done this generation is the Wavebird. I'm glad the default controller is rumored to be wireless.
I've got a Cube and a Playstation so I'll go ahead and ad my two cents. The Cube controller is an excellent controller that is just a joy to use. However, it's odd array of buttons can often lead much to be desired from games that are cross platform. Soul Calibur is an excellent example of this. Designed for a Dreamcast / PS controller type with four buttons in diamond, it relies on hitting 2 buttons simultaneously to do many moves. For moves that don't use "A" the Gamecube is tricky and/or relies on mapping a trigger to the combination. This leaves you short.
Sports games also tend to assume a PS type layout but the problem there is differant. They want you to have the 4 triggers. When they don't, they tend to map things to the second analog stick (C) which can be trickier to hit properly. I now tend to buy my sports games for the PS.
That said, when you look at games that are exclusive to the Cube, they use the controller in just wonderful ways. First part games are the obvious examples. Metroid Prime had some simple controls but had incredible depth just a flick of the C stick away. WindWaker was just great. Then look to something like F-Zero to see how those big ol' analog triggers can be used to give a player the finesse that a controller like the dual shock just doesn't offer.
The dual shock is great about giving you a lot of buttons to press, and if they add another button somewhere, they are playing to their strength. The cube controller on the other hand is about initial ease of use and later finesse. When you pick up a controller and and a game it's obvious how to do the most basic thing in that game. You press that big A in the middle of the controller.
I really don't like the GC controller. The d-pad is way too small and out of place, making the games that DO use it a lot more of a pain than they need to be. (Megaman Network Transmission, for example) Then you've got the arrangement of the buttons themselves. A and B aren't too bad, though I find myself wishing they had standardized on a button size for them. X and Y, on the other hand, I find to be nearly impossible to use at the same time as A and B. Using the same game as an example, I have to completely shift my right hand grip to be over A and X to use chips in MMNT, making B impossible to hit for that duration. On a PS2 controller, that'd be a whole lot easier based on the uniformity of the button arrangement.
The biggest complaint I have with the idea of L and R being analog isn't on the GC itself, but rather the DC-- the buttons have a very large range of motion, and the deadspace for most games before they detect L and R (when used as digital buttons) absolutely wrecks those types of games-- especially fighting games, which were already broken badly by the DC's horrendous d-pad. This is a software issue, though, and thankfully it's not one that really appears on the GC.
The most comfortable controller I've ever used is the SNES one. Buttons are well-placed (though L and R could have used equivelents on the front as well, IMHO.) The PSX is a little less confortable due to the d-pad center break and required adjustment of how one holds the controller due to the rounded grips. The Dual Shock was too heavy, though the DS2 fixes it.
All in all, despite how much I find the GC controller irritating, I think there are worse designs-- see Jaguar, Dreamcast, and X-Box for example. (the latter being just too bulky for my hands to hold it comfortably, and the buttons feel wrong to me)
analog face buttons that feel just like digital click switches... All buttons with the exception of Start, Select, L3 and R3 are analog. I use X and Square all the time in racing games as Gas and Brake, and as long as the game supports it, and uses a decent sensitivity range (couugh *TIR* cough) they work fine.
poor positioning of the analog sticks... I'll agree a little - I have large hands and sometimes in FPS's or other games that use both sticks (Robotron) I get a little "angled" because of how my thumbs line up. But for most games it's not a prob.
analog stick is too loose, rubbery surface gives no grip for your thumb, lacks the 8-way "insert"... Totally agree here - especially when intense gaming action has led to sweaty thumbs. I hate when my thumb slides off the center of the stick and all my inputs are off. Or I get distracted... The DS2 is tighter than the DS1 though.
the broken up d-pad... I don't play a lot of fighters, but when I do, I have no complaints about the cross.
"rounded" grips for holding comfort... I've used almost every first-party console controller made in the last 20 years and I still feel the basic design of the DS is the best. It could use some tweaks (maybe two sizes like the Xbox pads) but overall, I prefer the DS layout to any of the others. Although the Xbox Controller S is a close second.
I just can't get used to having only two shoulder buttons and most GC/Xbox games mapping those as Gas/Brake, leaving me to shift with face buttons. I think my most hated pad is the Dreamcast's, and one look at a DC pad and a non-S Xbox pad...
GTRacer
- Wonder if that PS to GC/XB controller adaptor is worth 12 bucks...
Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
Mmm...the start/select buttons usually do not need to be hit suddenly in games. And while I see what you're saying, there isn't much room for two analog sticks *unless* you stick them there.
You've apparently never lived with people who like to turn off the damned TV during a game of Zone of Enders 2. Fuckers.
Uh...ontopic, right. Well, view GameCube. Two analog. Easy to hit start button. Allows your hands to rest in the most comfortable position for the most common control configuration. And don't complain about the C-stick being awkward to use. It is, sure, if it's a main component of a game, but it's perfect for what it's there to do -- camera control.
I have to say, I really enjoy the shape and texture of the xbox s controller. It's actually not too bad of a joystick, its big problem is really the black and white buttons, and the shape of the buttons themselves. They are rounded up, so if i'm holding them down, I start to hurt my fingers. I got top spin a while ago and now I don't play it because it hurts my hands to hold down the buttons for a long duration. The buttons need to be flattened out like ont he gamecube or ps2. The black and white ones just suck. They are good for halo type use, flashlight on off, or switching grenades, but they arent versital enough to be used in all games. There's no reason for them to be pushed into the controller and difficult to hit.
Gamecube is nice, but the direction pad sucks and there's not enough buttons to translate cross platform games effectivly. But otherwise the layout is nice and unique, though a little hard for me to play a game where you'd have to switch which buttons you are hitting quickly, like doing x,y,b or something is tough to move your thumb to sometimes. C stick also sucks. Its like the b/w buttons on xbox, can be used for non important stuff, but why limit controls like that when you can just create an effective right analog stick?
I like the ps2's dpad the best for whatever reason. Any of the round ones you see on computer joypads suck for me, becuase I cant press absolute directions consistantly.
A personal pet peeve of mine are the big trigger buttons. Anygame where to play it you have to hold the r trigger down for the duration (driving type game or something), makes my fingers hurt when I'm done playing a long session. Its a big bulky button, and theres a lot of range of motion to get it to fire off. If the buttons were smoothly responsive the whole way from start to finish, it wouldnt be bad, but when theres like 4 cm of deadzone that just makes my finger tired. That's why I like the ps2 the best, quick little toggle triggers that I can hit quick, and they respond quick.
One big complaint for all three is playing something like soul calibur on them sucks. Whenever you have to press 2 or even 3 buttons at once, I find it very hard to do with my thumbs. So what happens is I hold the controler with my right wrist flipped over and use my index and middle finger to press the buttons. After a while though that gets painful. Hard to manage the simultanious presses now a days...
I want responsiveness from a controller and some good erganomics behind it. I don't want force feed back messing up my control and I don't want vibration that'll give me jollys when I put the thing in my lap.
Speaking of that, does anyone think adding vibration to controlers makes em die easier? Ever since I got the ps1 controler with vibration in it, the lifetime of my joysticks have been cut in half. My nes and snes and original non analog ps1 controlers still work fine, and they've had twice as much of a work out as the vibration ones. Meanwhile the vibrating ones die after a year of good use. Oh well. Can only cross my fingers and pray the next round of joys are well thought out and comfortable.
Shouldn't that be running out about now? IIRC, patents only last 17 years, and the NES came out in 1985...
It ran out before the launch of the Dreamcast, which is why it had the Nintendo-style D-pad.