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Utah Leads the Way Toward RFID Privacy Legislation

Posted by michael on from the good-for-something dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Wired News reports that Utah's House of Representatives passed the first-ever RFID privacy bill this week, 47-23. Utah state Rep. David Hogue said that without laws to ensure consumer privacy, retailers will be tempted to match the data gathered by RFID readers with consumers' personal information. 'The RFID industry will carry the technology as far as they can,' said Hogue, sponsor of the Radio Frequency Identification Right to Know Act. 'Marketing people especially are going to love this kind of stuff.'"

24 of 259 comments (clear)

  1. Is it just me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    or does anyone else feel immediate antagonism when they see Utah mentioned anywhere?

    The state has accumulated a lot of bad karma lately. I'm kinda glad Novell is moving out.

    Mormons are not enjoying good karma either.

    1. Re:Is it just me... by 36526542DD · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As a Mormon in Utah, it is frustrating that so much attention is given to the "bad karma", and so little attention is paid to the great things about Utah.

      Polygamy is practiced by groups in many states, but Utah gets all of the focus because of the concentration in certain communities (half in Utah, half across the border in Arizona). Additionally, most of that is attributed to the "Mormon church", which hasn't practiced polygamy since it became a state about 120 years ago (at which time it joined the U.S. and polygamy became illegal in Utah. Before that Utah was not in the United States, and polygamy was perfectly legal). So to even associate modern polygamy with the LDS church would be like calling anyone who currently lived in the southern states racist because their states used to practice slavery.

      SCO is ~in~ Utah, but in no way reflects the views of Utah or Utahns. I don't hear anyone bagging on California or Virginia because Verisign is there, or Washington state because Microsoft is there.

      Utah is a great state with great people, a lot of great companies, incredibly beautiful natural resources that we take very good care of (8 or 9 National Parks, I think more than any other state, and certainly more geologically diverse), and a lot of other things going for it.

      To "feel immediate antagonism" toward Utah over a few issues that are really quite unrelated to the state is just a narrow-minded, uneducated, knee-jerk reaction.

  2. Bush's cronies... by YanceyAI · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Wait. You're saying that I could get one of these little buggers and stick it on someone and know exactly where they are? I'm more worried about the Bush administration's ideas for using this technology than I am about Wal-Mart's. Though I don't want them tracking me either.

    I mean who wants your retailer to know when you buy condoms or somethng equally personal. Really, technologically speaking, we are not far from the thought police at all.

    --
    Can I bum a sig?
    1. Re:Bush's cronies... by el-spectre · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Incidently... having been a cashier for a bit I can tell you: No one cares when you buy personal kinds of stuff. You wanna buy condoms? Go for it... most people have sex, it's not a big secret. Other than mild amusement when a giggly couple comes thru buying wine and rubbers, I never gave a damn.

      One exception, though: Couple cam thru buying wine, condoms, KY, straight razors, rubbing alcohol (!!!), and nothing else. Had a funny look in their eyes... I don't know what they were up to, but the alcohol and razors STILL makes me shudder.

      --
      "Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
  3. Marketing people really are awful by ZuperDee · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I wrote a letter to NewEgg, asking them to stop using HTTP Referrer on their site, because I thought it a privacy concern. Their response: "Unfortunately the HTTP Referrer Header cannot be eliminated because it is an essential tool for our Marketing Department used to monitor where we are getting our web traffic from so that we can improve future campaigns to focus on more specific demographics. Please accept our humblest apologies for any inconvenience." I have tried not to shop at NewEgg ever since, because the idea of gathering information on my web viewing habits WITHOUT informing me, and without my consent, really does bother me.

    My main point here though is that this is just one example of how marketing people will do ANYTHING to gather information about people. Without a privacy policy, I think the folks in Utah are right, things like RFID will be used to gather personal information about consumers.

    1. Re:Marketing people really are awful by ZuperDee · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Because NewEgg won't let me order anything if I don't have referrer information turned on.

  4. Well... by physicsboy500 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We've already seen Budweiser push for all the info they can get without these tags... I'm sure RFID is soon to follow.

    At least they won't be able to invade your spending habits this way, and I'm sure legislation will come to dissallow their current manner of tracking if it deeply affects consumer rights.

    Technology like this is beginning to infringe on our privacy though... I wouldn't want everyone to know I bought four pairs of handcuffs and a lether whip around my girlfriend's birth... I mean candy and flowers... yeah

    --
    The original generic sig.
  5. Re:Voter issues by TheCanuck · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Of course we in Utah "protect our own". Why shouldn't we with all the negative Utah comments spewing here. Despite the Linux Lackey opinions on SCO etc, Utah has given the tech world many advances, Novell, WordPerfect, Altiris etc. The RFID legislation is just the latest in a tech savvy state dealing with modern problems. Deal with it!

    And leave religion out of this!

    --
    He shoots! He Scores!!!!!
  6. The real issue with RF ID is jobs by MountainLogic · · Score: 4, Interesting
    While the marketoids will try to mine the tags, I do not think that privacy is the biggest problem with RFID. Why is wallmart pushing for the tags so hard? To eliminate labor. Labor is one of their biggest costs. With the tags in place they can eliminate the checkout people, you push your cart through the scanner and up pops your bill on the ATM pad. This also allows them to keep track of what sells and when. With some scanners between each department they can find misplaced items that customers put back on the wrong rack. This would also all but eliminate employee thieft. Only jobs left will be the greeter at the enterace and security at the exit. They have already outsourced janitorial services to fight unionization and I'm sure they'l do the same with a restocking crew and rent-a-cop.

    In some ways this is the ultamate offshoring of a service job. The labor of checkout clerk is moved to the chip factory where the tage is made and the shoe factory where the tag is inserted.

    1. Re:The real issue with RF ID is jobs by tc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Also, printing presses should be regulated, because they put scribes and illuminators out of work.

    2. Re:The real issue with RF ID is jobs by Flavius+Stilicho · · Score: 3, Interesting

      With the tags in place they can eliminate the checkout people, you push your cart through the scanner and up pops your bill on the ATM pad.

      This is precisely why I never have and never will use the 'Self Checkout' lanes at the supermarket, Home Depot, etc. Not only are they eliminating some poor schmo's job, but they're getting ME to do it for them on top. When they start giving me a 10% discount to use those lanes, I'll reconsider. Until then, they can blow me. and forget the argument that the discount is built in... if that were the case the prices at the full service line would be higher. Of course, just like ATMs and bank tellers, I guess that's next. </rant>.

      Sorry... just thoroughly disgusted with the system lately.

    3. Re:The real issue with RF ID is jobs by doorbot.com · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is not offshoring jobs, it's technology making certain jobs redundent. Since this technology will be cheaper than labour it will win. Jobs are great and all, but people need to be "net productive", at least in theory

      You're getting at the capital-labor ratio... in "rich" countries where labor is expensive, labor will be replaced with capital as long as the replacement lowers cost. If Walmart believes replacing cashiers with RFID tags/scanners is cheaper, they will do so. RFID (at least for check out purposes) is probably not necessary in a place where labor is far less expensive.

    4. Re:The real issue with RF ID is jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I agree, because let me tell you. I love waiting in line behind the guy fumbling with a check and ID. Or waiting behind the person with 85 million things in the cart. Or watching the bagger put my bread at the bottom of the bag and then stacks canned food on top.

      I simply hate being able to scan my stuff across, stick in my card, press "Pay", and be out in 5 minutes. Convenience: who needs it?

      Seriously, they still need someone to man the stations. Kroger has U-Scan stations with someone watching a terminal that for some odd reason has a camera showing the scanning area. Never quite figured that one out.

  7. TEMPTED?!?!?!?!? by 2names · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They will absolutely pair the RFID info with personal data. Most retailers will probably do this even if there are laws against it and just hope to not get caught.

    --
    "I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
    1. Re:TEMPTED?!?!?!?!? by happyfrogcow · · Score: 3, Interesting

      hope not to get caught... well if I accuse them of pairing data with people the burden of proof is on me. How would I get that proof without breaking the DMCA through reverse engineering their system or other benevolent hacks?

  8. Re:RFID Locator? by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 5, Interesting

    > Is there such a thing as an RFID tag locator?

    How about an RFID Reader Card for your laptop or PDA? You can get one for $150.00ish US from Syscan International (http://www.syscan.com). It fits a CF slot or PCMCIA with an adapter.

    From an article in RFID Journal
    http://www.rfidjournal.com/article/articleview/3 93/1/1/
    "The read range is just five to 10 cm (two to four inches). But Striefler says the company is working to extend that. 'We hope to increase the power of the chip to improve its read range.' ... The reader can record changes in temperature, time and other data. The initial reader that Syscan is producing works with 13.56 MHz tags based on the ISO15693 and ISO14443 standards. The company is working to produce versions for the ISO 14443A and ISO 14443B standards. It will also create readers for the Sony FeliCa RFID chip, and 125 kHz and 134 kHz frequencies. "

    Looks like a bold new frontier for interacting creatively with corporate computer systems.
    --
    Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
  9. Personal jamming / confuse the system? by dankjones · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What would happen if you just walked around with hundreds of RFID tags all over your body?

    1. Re:Personal jamming / confuse the system? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You would have lots of RFID tags on your body, but nothing else really. People should read up about this technology before getting parnoid, currently RFID technology for consumer products is limited to a few feet at most, or:

      "What's the typical read range for RFID devices?
      The majority of RFID transponders have a read range of less than 3 feet. Some applications, limit the read range to around 6 to 8 inches. Some newer technologies (UHF systems) do have a longer read range that can be 20 to 25 feet, but these systems are intended for pallets and shipping crates. Read range depends on many factors, but the size of the transponder's antenna, the size of the reader's antenna and its output power are the main ones. With battery-less transponders, long read range and small size are mutually exclusive."

      Taken from:
      http://www.aimglobal.org/technologies/rfid/ rfid_fa qs.asp

      This of course isn't to say in the future you couldn't be tracked with improved technology. However needing to jam a RFID signal right now is kinda pointless.

  10. Profound Implications? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    RFID detectors could be used on sidewalks to monitor pedestrians and the things they are carrying. And it wouldn't necessarily be government. Anyone could buy a detector and just start compiling data.

  11. Remember Matrix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Can you really believe this since this is the very same state that wanted to send information about every citizen in the state to a company in Florida called Matrix. See http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,590041052,00 .html

  12. Tech solution to privacy by AndroidCat · · Score: 5, Interesting
    In the February issue of Circuit Cellar, there's an article on RFID tags and how to make your own. (Alas, it's not one of the freebee articles on their web site. Go kill a tree for a good cause.) And once you understand how something works, it's always easier to shove a potato into the works!

    Starting from this, building a RFID reader detector should be easy -- know when someone is scanning for tags. After that, if some reader is looking for tags with data, why not give the poor thing some? LOUDLY. Reading the data off of some existing tags should give you an idea of what format data the reader is looking for, especially if they use any CRCs or such to stop someone from feeding the reader arbitrary data. Then feed them arbitrary data. The best part is that you really aren't transmitting with passive RFID, you're just "echoing" the reader's transmission.

    The gizmo used in the project is an Atmel e5551. Google for that and you'll find lots of things to read.

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  13. In the end, it doesn't matter by pturley · · Score: 4, Interesting

    RFID is a red herring. It's needed now simply because our computer technology can't understand what's going on around it without a little help. As soon as computers can understand what they're seeing through a video camera, they'll just *look* at you and your basket and gather the same information. Are we going to ban video cameras in order to protect our privacy?

    Instead of arguing about whatever particular technologies happen to be available now, let's jump forward to the final argument. Unless you're inside your house, or some other friendly enclosure, you will be observable - and how can we really complain about anyone just *noticing* what they see and recording information about it, regardless of what their purposes are? I'm not really sure where this question will eventually lead but, in the end, it's the truly relevant question.

  14. Re:I NEVER thought I'd say this... by 36526542DD · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As a Utahn who absolutely loves living here and raising his family here, I have to agree.

    So many people move to Utah (usually from California as far as this post is concerned) because it's a great family-oriented place to live, and the first thing they do when they get here is complain that there isn't enough alcohol (the greatest source of child abuse and spouse abuse ever known to man), gambling (the greatest source of wasted lives ever known to man), and that everything is closed on Sunday (because people are at church or home spending time with their families, which is the reason you moved to this family-oriented state in the first place, isn't it?).

    The same road that brought you in will take you back out, and have fun in California!

    Utah: A great place to live, despite many efforts by outsiders to make it otherwise...

  15. Re:Information wants to be free by Hentai · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Look at it this way: Corporate interests will continue to fight to ensure that THEIR data is private and OURS is public; why shouldn't we do our best to fight for the opposite?

    --
    -Hentai [in vita non pacem est]