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On Reaction-Based Massively Multiplayer Gaming
Thanks to GamerDad for its editorial discussing why massively multiplayer games that require player dexterity are so much more intriguing. The author explains that "...the reason I don't play a lot of the conventional massive player games is because there's no skill involved in them", and goes on to detail: "In most of the MMORPGs, battles have almost predetermined conclusions based on the level and abilities of those player avatars involved in the fight and the creatures they're fighting against." He concludes by recommending his current skill-based MMOG of choice: "That's where PlanetSide has struck a chord with me. It takes the player interaction I enjoy in these games and combines it with a skill-based game." Do players want "the ability to use their brains and their hands to succeed" in MMORPGs, not just progress based on the "amount of time they played the game"?
It makes sense that people who don't have as much time on their hands like to play games based on skill. But then, there are those who will always prefer the games tha you play them for hour after hour after hour, since they have nothing better to do with their time. That's kind of my opinion on some card games. I hate games based solely on luck and chance. And ones that are purely strategy, well, they're all right. But the games that combine luck with strategy...those are the best. Games just need to have a nice balance if they want to be appealing to more than one type of gamer.
... I played it and found out the game was tedious, the patches terrible, the player base filled with morons, bugs and exploits aplenty, very high monthly fee and the released game felt like a beta.
To add insult to injury, they come out with their first paid expansion while endlessly balancing and rebalancing the game, forcing people to pony up more money for a beta.
No freaking thanks.
It's not just what you do, it's in what order, with what timing, etc. Eg, on Arctic, a thief or two could take down a seriously stronger fighter type by constantly fleeing as soon as they were engaged, then sneaking back in and backstabbing... that took dexterity and quickness of mind to type all the commands (or aliases) fast enough... but there also the fighter type, if he was quick-minded enough, could easily have bashed the thief and screwed him completely... Each class has its own strong points that you have to learn to exploit. That could be considered player skill/dexterity.
Daniel
Carpe Diem
I agree wholeheartedly about all the stupid MMOs that require no skill whatsoever. I have been saying it for years. Who the hell is stupid enough to pay for a program where you click on a picture, it dissapears and then a number goes up. Rinse and Repeat. Oh yeah, it's a chat room too.
Of course, planetside, while much better than games like Everquest and Asheron's call, is still crap. Why? Planetside has two large armies that are fighting against each other for land and power. But neither side ever wins. Neither side ever can win. The game is in permanent stalemate. Without goals or purpose the fps game is meaningless. It's just a ton of people running around fragging each other. Because there are no goals or victory condition the game is pointless.
This is why I have found solace in Puzzle Pirates. It's completely skill based, puzzle game skill. Not only that, but there are clear goals. Getting lots of poe to get shops to get poe to get boats to get rum to get canonballs to destroy the boats of other crews. The economics are extremely complex and if managed improperly crews and flags can go bankrupt inside a week.
The thing that makes puzzle pirates so awesome is that there is a "7th puzzle" the social puzzle. Stinky fanboys can't succeed at puzzle pirates no matter how good their puzzling skills. Crews are closely knit social groups, and if you have no social skill none of the larger flags/crews will take you in. There are plenty of nice normal people who are good at the puzzles that nobody has any reason to let you in if you're an asshole. I set up a teamspeak server for our flag and now I talk in real time to my pirate friends every night I decide to play. The pirate theme is awesome too.
Oh yeah, puzzle pirates is cheaper than just about every other MMO there is. And there's a free trial too.
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It's a fact that RPG is solely based on leveling up and slapping on the right equipment on your characters. You don't need fast reflex or quick hand-eye coordination. All you need is patience and be motivated to keep playing.
I know I'll get modded down big time for this... but the only major reason why RPG is still an existing genre is because they are the only genre that can guarantee 80+hrs of original gameplay.
I have a number of relatives and friends that can play RPGs all day long. None of them can handle a fps for example, they simply get destroyed. Vice versa I have never seen anyone who mastered a fps... and can't handle an RPG. I don't call it a coincidence.
I was pretty much set to say MMOs can't be skill based, but reading the article, I can see some room for it.
Specifically in a traditional dungeon based MMO I'd propose something to the extent of each player can choose to be in active mode, or passive mode. The key being giving players choice.
Players in active mode would essentially gain the opportunity to be 10-20% more effective, but would run the risk of being 10-20% less effective, based on how well they interacted with a skill based interface.
Players in passive mode would be baseline.
This would present a really nice mix. It wouldn't alienate the passive players. It would give the skilled players a chance to be better through application of skill. PVP could require the active mode (no passive PVPing). High level encounters would demand people be in active mode, to better their chance of defeating the difficult encounters.
It's a neat idea, I'd like to see something like that. It would require a lot of interface work though to make it intuitive.
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I support spreading santorum
the dumbing down of RPG's like has happened in the strategy world. Real Time Strategy games have overall dumbed down the level of games so as to increase the market share of them. Even calling Everquest a RPG is a stretch but at least it isn't a twitch game where very little thought is needed in order to do well. RPG's are about long term choices you make and involve many, many hours of advancement and choices. Even the 24 hours or so to beat Knights of the Old Republic is a quick RPG.
-- Slashdot, making the Left look conservative since 1997.
One of the reasons this 4 year old game is still popular is that the combat system rewards (but doesn't necessarily require) manual skill.
Actually, AC seems to have the best in-game physics (you can actually dodge missiles) and landscape (you can run to pretty much any part of the world you can see, and you can see far from the top of a mountain). Too bad about the graphics...
Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
From the average quake players perspective I can see how one might think a game like everquest or daoc requires no "skill", but you are wrong. Your personal definition of skill is skewed if you think that hand-eye coordination is the only kind of skill there is. The cleric has to watch the health of all the people in his group, then heal them accordingly, it is not always a slow process where you have plenty of time to react, sometimes it is a split second to react and most of the people playing mmorpgs would not react fast enough.. that is the difference between a "good" player and a average joe. If there was no room for a "good" player vs a bad one then I would agree that mmorpgs take no skill. But if someone can go beyond average, and even beyond good to where they are renowned as the best cleric on the server, then how can you possibly say there is no skill involved? This is not even taking into concideration the strategy needed to take a large raid force into an area and clear it out, anyone who had done a fear raid back in the day knows what I am talking about. Only very coordinated groups could "break" and hold fear.
While I haven't played Planeside, from what I've heard, it sounds terrible. I'd much rather have to come up with a strategy for 60 people to kill an "unkillable" monster, than run around by myself fragging people. While the low-level game of Everquest might not necessarily involve much skill, it's completely ignorant to say that's the case for the entire game. There's no question what we did was more involving than shooting someone in the head over and over in an FPS.
A big factor in my favorite skill-based games is the duration of your minimum session. The tedious leveling process of most games lengthens that minimum session from your average "I've got a couple minutes to kill" into the "Whoops, is that the sun coming up" timespan. This really narrows down the number of ADD/ADHD people (ahem) who would be interested.
For example:
* Super Smash Bros. Melee - five minutes, and a match is over. I've seen fifteen in rare circumstances. Skills make the butt-kicking your opponent deserves in a revenge match much easier.
* Pacman, Galaga, Space Invaders, Breakout, etc - Classic, because you could just put a quarter in and play for a few minutes. No leveling, just gameplay. Skill could gain you some extra points or even more lives/whatever.
* Mario Bros, Donkey Kong - Good for a few quick minutes of fun. Quick reversals and timing make you "good."
* Outrun, Pole Position, etc - Drive for a few minutes, and it's done. Pure brain-numbing racing fun.
* UT, Counterstrike, Q3A - Play a few minutes of fragging and go. Although, having a good 3D card can sometimes provide the illusion of skill due to higher responsiveness and vision quality.
In summary:
A critical element of games is the length you have to play them before you can safely get up and leave. These games are usually skill-based, since a few minutes can't possibly give you any fancy EXP-based advantages.
Like *any* MMO, the real joy comes not really from the game, but the people you play with. A good group of people will always make a game that much more enjoable. The key to planetside is being in an "outfit"(re:guild), that suits your playstyle. There *are* outfits out there that focus heavily on teamwork and coordination on a scale that is quite litteraly not possible in any other MMO type. Of course, these kinds of outfits feel few and far between, but they are out there. And they sure make Planetside a blast to play. :)
Granted, I only played for the free week that they offered at one point, so I never did a whole lot. But if I had the money, I would have subscribed (I just can't see paying $50 and then a per-month fee... just a per-month fee and I'd be there). Why? Because it had variety.
One afternoon I'd be zooming along in my stealth ATV, single-handedly taking over enemy positions that were left undefended during a big battel elsewhere on the planet. The next night, I'd meet up with a squad that I randomly bumped into and joined so that we could do some scout-work in preperation for the next big fight. The day after, we'd all join up in a huge base fight and sweep through an entire continent.
And it was fun! No AO/E&B "Okay, do the same thing over and over until you level" crap... the other side would constantly be doing new things, and so would we. Any game that can give me the joy or strafing the enemy base in a transport bomber before jumping out, -and- sniping the enemy from a distance, -and- playing anti-aircraft defense in a jumping mini-mech, -and- parking my stealth ATV next to an enemy sniper, getting off, putting my gun to his head, and shooting him three-four times, slowly, while he looked around trying to find my invisible ass, is a fun game.
If I ever find myself in some money, I may just pick it and the expansion up and start playing again. Pity I'm so poor.
Even Planetside feels a bit plasticy when it comes to the whole 'dexterity' thing - because of the techniques it uses to counter lag, you never really avoid bullets, you just have to move into a position where you're not in another player's massive 'cone of fire'.
I'd always thought that a MMORPG that gives a player captain-level control over a giant ship (naval, space, whatever) would be a nice middle ground between the first-person MMORPGs and the MMORTS games - the fact that the ship is so massive and has so much inertia can make up for the lag - then the action really boils down to short-term tactics, which is what most FPS games come down to in the end anyway.
Anyway, thoughts like this are a dime a bzillion, so I'll just go shush now.
They say that skill is involved in high-level encounters. That's great and all, but what do you have to do to get to those high-level encounters in the first place? Hint: It has little to nothing to do with skill.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that if getting to the point of the game where actual skill is involved requires months of treadmilling, that's not a good thing. It also means that skill is only required in the small percentage of people who play the game for hours at a time, which makes the whole thing moot.
Rob
Now I've noticed some people remarking about Planetside, having played it in Beta or after release. I've heard them ragging on PS (Planetside) and I am a mite tired of it.
Now I've been playing PS since European release in late May and I can tell you this game is changing. The performance (FPS wise) is so much better now. The memory leaks and most bugs are gone. The features and tweaks come every month and in fact the game is doing just fine (as most of the Leet geeks have gone back to their CS or UT caves to play). Intentional griefers are far between and becoming rarer. Sure there are still problems, but no worse than any other MMOG.
Planetside is in fact the first and only game to hold my interest for more than a few weeks and why? Because of the teamwork and teamplay. To really planetside is all about not going out thinking of kills, or being leet or getting loads of XP to increase your rank. PS is fun when you play with other people (Teamspeak is also quite useful here). I am apart of one of the top European Vanu Sovereignty Outfits (The Immortal Serial Killers aka ISK) and I have yet to find finer buddies in any game.
Finally the reason I got into PS in the first place is exactly for almost the same reason as the author notes, the game manages to balance rewarding players spending alot of time in, but also allows the newest character to wack the leetest uber killer from one of the two other empires.
theICEBear
-C328 with the Immortal Serial Killers on Werner (PS)
A person is smart, people are deeply stupid
I'm a veteran Planetside player, its a game that has its flaws like any other but it has some amazing innovations in gameplay that could really move the MMOG genre along.
1) Starting characters can compete with, or cooperate with, characters of any level without being useless. What an amazing idea! Imagine if 'newbies' in other MMOGs were useful right away! (and not just so you can PK them and take their gold). PS doesn't load high-level characters down with unbeatable bonuses, they have access to more of the game's equipment but a few solid hits will kill them just as dead, this means that characters of all levels are useful on the battlefield. Net result: levelling up is worthwhile but being low-level isn't depressing and dull.
2) Both character level (time spent playing) and player skill have a part to play in success. Whether or not you think that selecting the right attack or casting the proper spell is skillful or not, hand-eye coordination can be added into the mix to make the game even more skill-based. In PS your character will have access to more toys as he levels up, making him overall more effective, but your skill is always key - from level 1 to level 20.
It seems to me that there's no reason that these two key features couldn't be included in future MMORPGs... allowing a more interactive experience for characters of all classes and levels and allowing players who are new to the game, or have less time to spend on it, to enjoy the game alongside the more experienced or obsessive gamers. It also breaks down the divide between casual and hardcore players and lets them play side by side.
For my money it seems that games like Anarchy Online or Starwars Galaxies are crying out to be played using a Planetside-like system and although it would need to be quite different for fantasy-themed games (all those melee weapons make FPS mechanics less useful) the core concepts of player skill and gameplay balance accross levels could still be included.
but not one that I respect. All the posts I've read imply that there is strategy and skill in playing your typical MMO, but they're actually talking about min/maxing. Min/maxing is the 'strategy' of gaining optimal value for your experience, knowing which skills to buy, what weapons to have, etc. The skill is knowing how the game functions and building the best possible character to match. The related skill is knowing how to 'game' the system. Figuring out how the AI works, managing the health and stats of your party, etc.
There's a final skill to these guys that ties the other two together: Deluding yourself into thinking that anything else is going on.
Perhaps the first person who figures out what it takes to kill the uber-monster and coordinates the players to do it is applying skill, but the ones who go with him? They might as well be AI party members.
I want those MMORPG's to be more than they are, I really do. I'm an old school pen and paper player, and the idea of having those amazing worlds displayed on my screen in full 3d wonder makes my heart leap with joy. But the gameplay is everything I disliked about pen and paper honed to a razor sharp edge. Everyone is a munchkin, the game IS about the leveling, and everyone talks in a modern game specific slang (uber, agro, mog), occasionally peppered with the odd "hail".
With Planetside, I feel like something new has been added to the table. The twitch component makes me feel like I'm doing something to earn my experience, regardless of the fact that the game itself is relatively shallow at this point.
Here's hoping the next batch will take the best of both worlds and make something truly extraordinary.