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HardOCP Sues Infinium Over Legal Threats
Cebu writes "According to GameSpot, in a less than surprising move, Kyle Bennett of tech website HardOCP has decided to file a lawsuit against Infinium Labs, makers of the forthcoming Phantom PC-based 'console'. On February 27, a lawsuit was filed in the United States District Court for the Northern District of Texas, Dallas Division under the Declaratory Judgment Act to force the issue of Infinium Labs' repeated legal threats against HardOCP for an allegedly defamatory article written last year."
Has /. become a place where the geeks talk law?
Stay tuned for new sig...
New section for this website: lawsuits
Well, that's one way to completely fail to keep legal costs down.
/me grabs a bag of popcorn and waits for the show...
HardOCP posted an article that was quite misleading. I don't think they they maliciously *lied*, but definitely misled it's readers.
On what points exactly do you feel that HardOCP misled their readers?
Infinium sent the letter saying that it didn't like the article and was going to sue, and then HardOCp decided to escalate by countersueing.
They didn't escalate, they just called Infinium's bluff. If I'm reading the news right, the legal action here concerns solely the matters that Infinium's original threats of legal action were based on. There is no escalation here at all, they've just moved the venue of discussion.
It's standard PC hardware, with a few custom add-ons to integrate the hardware&softwaresides of the DRM scheme.
I believe when people say the infinium doesn't exist they mean that the custom add-ons don't exist or do not have substance. I don't think anyone believes that Infinium doesn't have PC hardware.
However I also think most people who've looked closely at what Infinium is saying believe that in the screenshot Infinium distributed where there's the kid playing Quake 3 on a TV with a phantom sitting in front of it, that you're looking at any sort of actual product Infinium has or will have.
I agree that neither side is coming into the dispute with clean hands here. HardOCP's first edition of the article was not perfect, even they admited that there were several points that needed to be retracted. However, HardOCP handled their mistakes gracefully by retracting what they were proven wrong on.
Infinium thought they had weak prey, so they overreached and added a few threats that they wouldn't be able to follow through on either. They might have even been hoping that they could scare HardOCP into shutting down completely.
It's hard to run a news organization of any kind without at least having a laywer within reach. Whenever you say bad things about businesses, you'll eventually run into somebody who thinks thye have more lawyers than you can ever afford...
That said, while I am still quite scepticle of the whole thing, I have to admit I no longer think the console is just vaporware. Between the press demo they did a few months ago for a few select members of the press (which at least had photos of the thing), to fact that they will have an 8,000 square foot booth at E3 I think this might not be vaporware. It could still fail miserably and be nothing like they've promised, but at least they seem to be doing more than saying "we have a great console, we'll prove it later" like they did for so long.
The proof is in the pudding. Nintendo's DS, the Phantom, and more are going to be shown at E3. It should be very intersting.
And let's face it. Suing someone priting facts about you that don't look good more than a year after they were posted (and when you still haven't shown any real proof to anyone yet) just doesn't look good for your company.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
I bet that HardOCP could have let the "lawsuit" slide and an out of court settlement would have happened, if anything. Now there WILL be a messy legal battle.
Well of course they could have settled on this attrocious claim. And that might perhaps be judged the reasonable thing to do, if concessions to outrageous litigiousness simply because it's litigious are to be the expectation of private bodies in our society. But as of now, many of us still value due process of law over concession to threat. And so be it, that due process of law take its course here.
Doesn't your NDA prohibit you from talking about the product you are testing?
I bet that HardOCP could have let the "lawsuit" slide and an out of court settlement would have happened, if anything.
But that would be taking "the easy and cheap way out of this situation," as Kyle Bennett said, and would be "throwing away [HardOCP.com's] credibility." The point of the countersuit is that HardOCP doesn't want to let this thing slide. That should have been pretty obvious when they posted the threatening letters from Infinium on their site.
I hope you'll pardon me for saying so, but if you felt "misled" after reading that article then you may have a reading comprehension problem. Whether you do or not, failing to recognize that it is fundamentally wrong for a corporation or individual to attempt to silence a free voice on the Internet is the reason why you got flamed so hard.
The vocal majority is that way for a good reason. If you find that you have differing or opposing opinions, you should ask yourself why. If you truly feel you're correct in your assent, then you'll have to be eloquent and state your opinion clearly and offer a reasonable and detailed explanation why you're on the other side. If you can't do that, you will face the wrath of the vocal majority.
It is never right for someone to threaten a media outlet because they don't like what a writer has to say. HardOCP was 100% correct in refusing to remove the letter and 100% correct in offering to fix any factual errors. There being none, there should be no cause for dispute.
As for your home address... if someone on the Internet really wants to find where you live, they can. Over one million people in the Rochester metro area can find my address and phone number from the phone book that is issued to everyone who has a land line. No one's up in arms about that, are they? You can get lots of people's names, addresses and phone numbers just by searching publicly available tools or by looking up the owner of a domain.
Personally, I'm glad you got flamed; you deserve it if you spoke out against HardOCP in this issue. As an Internet journalist and writer I think it's of extreme importance that everyone recognize that HardOCP is in the right in this matter according to the facts as they have been presented, and that Infinium Labs was appallingly wrong for doing what they did.
-JemI wisely see you have removed your sig.
.sig to "Assigned Beta Tester". HTH.
Oh wait, you haven't, despite the admission you haven't played anything on a phantom.
Waspish comments aside, HardOCP do have the perfect right to sue them, and saying "I think this has gone a little bit too far" is rather counter-productive. HardOCP is forcing the issue here and now, to stop what could possibly be endless months of legal threats, with no action. No-one likes legal threats, and the HardOCP team have moved to clear this up.
The blame lies solely on Infinium Labs. They could of just politely asked HardOCP to correct a few errors in the article (which OCP did), but they then proceeded to wax lyrically about legal threats, which was unneeded. Of course, they could of done alot better by ignoring the article, and getting on with making the phantom, or providing some proof to the contrary, but instead they threatened to sue.
To me, that doesn't sound like a secure company.
Hint: To stop flammatory comments, much like my opening lines, change your
"Additionally, I don't see how hard it is to believe in the Phantom's existence"
I'd like to have evidence, not faith.
Think nothing is impossible? Try slamming a revolving door.
I propose a reason for the decline of relevance of US: the amount of money used going for lawsuits (defending against bad claims and making those bad claims) vs. the amount of money that goes to new developing new ideas. so... basically, it's asshole businessmen and CEOs that see a better living from the civil law system than actually thinking themselves. Maybe if all this effort was refocused all these WELL TRAINED tech people would actually have a job. Time to expire ALL of tort law and begin again...
Why don't you embrace your slashbotness instead of living in a dreamworld?
I've read the original HardOCP article, and they seem to have done a thorough job of investigating Infinium, and the evidence is overwhelming that at least at some point of time, the company was just a po box. From their evidence, tt is also quite plausible that the CEO is a dotcom era slash-and-burn artist, who went through VC funding for several companies and never delivered. Do you have any evidence to the contrary? I'm certain all of us would like to hear of it.
"The slave who knows his master's will and does not get ready...will be be beaten with many blows."Luke 12:47-48
IANAL, but this seems like the only way for HardOCP to counter these legal threats. Note that the letters were written by an Infinium person, not a lawyer. A real lawyer wouldn't make threats like "remove THIS content or I'll sue." No lawyer would ever do it, they'd first write a cease and desist letter, then if no action was taken, they'd sue without further notice. You can't say things like "if you don't do X, I'll sue you." That is barratry, using a threat of lawsuit for extortion. You get disbarred for making threats like that.
Personally, I'm glad you got flamed; you deserve it if you spoke out against HardOCP in this issue. As an Internet journalist and writer I think it's of extreme importance that everyone recognize that HardOCP is in the right in this matter according to the facts as they have been presented, and that Infinium Labs was appallingly wrong for doing what they did.
While I think Infinium labs is wrong, I have to completely disagree with the idea that this guy deserved to be flamed. While you stand up for HardOCP's rights, you encourage people to shout down this guy if they disagree. Why encourage him to think about his position and state it eliquently if you are just going to shout him down when he does so? HE has every right to state his opinion just as HardOCP does. Just as you have every right to disagree. But flaming is not disagreeing, it is badgering, shouting down, and harassing without any intelligent thought. And that is the last thing anyone should be encouraging.
"Information wants to be expensive" - Stewart Brand, the same guy who said "Information wants to be free"
Yes, by retracting some ambiguous statements and replacing them with some quite specific statements that basically were even more annoying than the originals, and completely in line with what Infinium was demanding.
Notice how Infinium hasn't bothered to call Penny Arcade on their numerous articles on the Phantom. They probably know how big PA was and don't want to fuck with them. They probably had no clue about HardOCP and figured they'd be an easy target. Good guess, but wrong.
'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
I'm not going to post my play-by-play analysis, but suffice it to say, I agree with you about one thing. Anybody who's interested should indeed do their own research. (and have a few good laughs and amazed slaps of the forehead while they're at it)
Imagine you are some non-tech-savvy investor, and all you know about Infiniujm Labs is what you see here. Not so bad, right? So I think the reason Infinium is so intent on protecting its image is because of this fragile bubble they have built around the stock.
Actually, my guess is that they're underestimating the impact of PA. Since PA is basically talking smack, and HardOCP is talking facts, they're more worried about the effects on investors from actual dirt being dug up. Investors are unlikely to be swayed by PA's implications that Infinium's CEO is on LSD or kills dogs to orgasm, while the HardOCP article would make them look very hard at where they were going to put their money.
On a side note, PA has been talking about going out to actually see the Phantom (apparently, they've been invited to check it out but have ignored the invitation, which comes as a bit of a shock)
"Additionally, I don't see how hard it is to believe in the Phantom's existence"
I'd like to have evidence, not faith.
I understand where you're coming from, and I disagree with the parent, but I don't think any more faith is needed to believe that some aspect of the Phantom exists than for me to believe you if you tell me you own a computer. Sure, you could do all your Slashdotting from an internet cafe, but if you tell me you have a computer, I'll believe you without evidence, because it's not a difficult matter. In the same way, for some working prototype of the Phantom to exist takes no real faith: it's just a computer with an unsual contents delivery platform. If the prototype doesn't have the contents delivery section finished, it's just a computer.
I'll take it on faith, without evidence, that Infinium owns at least one computer.
Not really making progress. They are a public company now due to some waving of stocks at the end of 2003, acquiring some guy's consulting firm.
So they have had to have a viable business address to get the paperwork filed..
Anyway... I find it interesting reading the SEC filings that their whole concept comes down to a VPN to deliver content which they haven't started on yet.
Reading the latest reviews, where they actually show a box... Nice packaging, but couple of thoughts... If they are running a vpn and drm why do they need to communicate with ssl? Additional thoughts abound as to how long they expect their ssl encryption to be valid as one side the the communication is compromised...
Shrug, must be one of those things like the sealed unit the console comes in. It's impossible to take the plastic appart to get at the insides... right?
Anyway, all smoke and mirrors so far. I like how they have $5000 stock, no incoming capital, yet set the value of the stock to 5000 times it's starting price and run a 4 to 1 split on all outstanding stock... wow, instead of $5k they are now worth a cool $25 million... Oh and they say their chief competitors are xbox, nintendo and sony. Somehow I doubt even if they did have $25 million they could compete head to head with their competition...
Just goes to show what I know about business... I always thought it was about trying to make a product which you then sold to make money.
/* TODO: Spawn child process, interest child in technology, have child write a new sig */
Since among the many disputed statements in HARDOCP articles is whether the Phantom is vaporware, filing a suit is a great way to find out whether the thing actually exists. If Infinium challenges the statement that they don't really have a product, then they have to show that they do have a product and HARDOCP gets to see it.
Shouting people down is fine.
Suing them for speaking is not.
Free speech is a bitch somethetimes.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Good point, but the front page commentary has been a bit more smack-talking than the comics have. Going as far as to call Infinium's CEO a 'huckster'. The LSD and dog kill orgasm (WOW, good band name...) things are obvious parody, but not everything they're saying is.
I wouldn't be surprised if they got to wherever they were going to be shown the console and were then handed NDA's. Knowing those guys, they'd probably laugh their asses off and tell the Infinium dudes to lick Dave.
'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.