ICQ Universe

scubacuda writes "PC World: ICQ Universe (now owned by AOL) will soon be the first to offer social networking services on an IM platform. One has to wonder what types of legal issues might surface as social networks (particularly those unsecured) become more popular. For example, could being an IM buddy with someone later come back and haunt you?"

Comments

Prediction about "social network software"

[heironymouscoward]

This round is a fad.

It will last about 2-3 years and then disappear as people realize that the software does not support the true exchanges that keep human social networks running.

And in 5-10 years someone will build social networking software that really works. Some clues: men and women build different kinds of social networks. Younger and older people build different kinds of network. Information has value. People trade information. Social networks are information economies.

Re:Prediction about "social network software"

[DavidDeLux]

I think it will take less time that the 5-10 years you talk about... software development moves quite quickly - although I would have to say that software innovation moves less slowly ;-)

How difficult would it be to create a network that caters for the different social groups that you talk about. But, are there any differences between the networks that these groups create? Sure, the criteria for determining who is added/excluded from a group will be different, but the underlying requirements are the same. Psychologists feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!!

Re:Prediction about "social network software"

[Apreche]

May I refer you to this great article by Doug Rushkoff.

Social Currency

Re:Prediction about "social network software"

[hype7]

This round is a fad.

It will last about 2-3 years and then disappear as people realize that the software does not support the true exchanges that keep human social networks running.

I think you're right, but I'm not sure it'll even last that long.

The thing that has made IM so popular is not that it tries to facilitate the true exchange of human social networks, but instead it tries to support it. If organisations like ICQ refocused their efforts on how best to support existing types of human networks instead of trying to replace them, then I think they might be on to something.

I can't remember the details, but MS (of all companies) was really on to something like this a little while back. They also limited group sizes, which is a clever way of ensuring meaningful interaction between acquaintances when they're online.

-- james

Re:Prediction about "social network software"

[DavidDeLux]

The thing that has made IM so popular is not that it tries to facilitate the true exchange of human social networks, but instead it tries to support it.

Exactly. IM should be seen as a way to support communication between people who know each other, rather than being a way to start the communication between unknown people. For many years, I avoided things like IM because it just seemed to be full of kiddies with nothing more to say that A/S/L ;-) But recently, because people I work with are all around the world, we use IM to stay in touch with each other - much to the regret of my local telco who have seen my internation phone calls drop to almost nothing :) Of course, there is a big difference between using IM between a closed group of contacts and IM between the unwashed masses (which is more what IRC is all about)

Re:Prediction about "social network software"

[abiggerhammer]

I don't really get the cachet of signing on to Yet Another Social Networking Site. The proliferation of SNS's in the last twelve months reminds me of the proliferation of instant messaging services after ICQ came out -- and until clients like Trillian and services like Jabber emerged, it was a huge pain in the ass to manage IM accounts on every service out there. (Perhaps someone will develop an SNS portal so that people can manage their Orkut/Friendster/Tribe.net/LinkedIn/etc. accounts all in one place?)

If the point of a social networking site is merely Yet More Networking, then the point escapes me. That said, it would be interesting to see social-networking sites with really useful added value, perhaps in a niche-specific fashion. For example, the biotech firm I work for is developing a site where users can data-mine article databases like PubMed more deeply than existing tools allow; they'll have the option to save the document classification schemes they build, and to share their classifiers with other users if they want. Social networking (or academic networking, if you will) is a natural extension of this -- if it helps people find collaborators as well as information, we'll consider it a success.

Re:Prediction about "social network software"

[janbjurstrom]

Interesting, but could use some references to sources / related material, e.g.:

Andrew Odlyzko's paper Content is Not King which I often point to - it's that good :), and the groundbreaking Understanding Media by Marshall McLuhan (written in 1964, in which he coined the phrase "the medium is the message". First 7 chapters also available online.).

Re:Prediction about "social network software"

[SurgeonGeneral]

A person can only intake so much information. Desensitization will play a factor in people caring less about other's raw data. Maybe it will help us look at each other in a different light: what has this person accomplished with their life and who has this person helped or hurt?

I am going to have to go ahead and agreed with you on this.

In psychology we call this "habitutation". There are a lot of things that enter our mind, especially due to the senses alone. Think about all the stuff you could actually be hearing and seeing right now. Instead you've turned off your hearing and are focusing on the computer screen. Focus out for a second and you might suddenly pick up the whine of your computer fan or the drone of some far away television.

The social atmosphere changes with the forces that influence it, and filters out parts that are inconvenient or too powerful to notice. World War One brought on a sweeping change in the way the people think about themselves. People started talking about themselves in terms of form instead of content. Concepts of honor and chilvary made way for personality and style. But great changes in mass psychology are not merely stories in history books. Its not hard to notice that the internet makes information the paramount variable - thats why they call it the information economy. Without content, you have nothing. Thats a lesson the dot-bomb bubble taught us. and this focus on information permeates the way we interact with each other: look at Douglas Rushkoff's idea of information as social currency - he says that information is presupposed in our interactions and those that can offer it have power (not in those words). Information is power. Information dominates our thinking, our interactions, our business, our media, our newspapers, our politics. Its a good thing, because the more we come to realize how important it is, the more we will value it, and the more we will reject those that make false promises and empty threats.

Re:Prediction about "social network software"

[abiggerhammer]

You mean like listservs, newsgroups and web forums?

Not at all. I don't see anything Orkut's communities do that a decent webforum doesn't already do better, presuming that the webforum allows people to link their usernames to their own webpages, as lots do.

Actually, /. is a fine example of what I mean by "really useful added value". Its primary purpose is to disseminate news that geeks will find interesting, but it also has some networking features: you can define other users as friends, foes, &c., you can get more information about people via their user pages, you can send messages internally, you can see who "friends of friends" are, and so on. LiveJournal is a pretty good example too -- primary purpose is providing a blogging tool; the ability to define profiles, interests and friends allows for networking.

Needlessly long reply to what I'm sure was sarcasm, but eh.

First Microsoft, now AOL?

[Motherfucking Shit]

I thought this was a dupe until I went back and looked; the previous story was about Microsoft getting into this game. I wonder which one of them will be first to partner with Acxiom?

The Internet becomes more like the real world...

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess all these "social networks" make the internet more and more like the real world. Have to be careful of who you talk to, etc.

Except of course in the real work scamming someone is a lot more work - on the internet they can't see you, so you could be scamming lots of people at once. The "social networks" might even build up a higher layer of false trust.

Damn you internet!

Simply chatting with someone can be a problem.

[JanusFury]

A few years back, during the eFront Fiasco, someone got a hold of ICQ Chat Logs off of the machine of Sam Jain, the CEO of eFront. I was an administrator of one of the sites that got hit hard by the scandal, and if my memory serves the chat logs (which included a lot of very embarassing things being said by Sam and other higher-ups at eFront) were one of the big things that resulted in eFront's eventual destruction.

I can only imagine how much worse it will get when ICQ expands its services.

ICQ Universe

[AndroidCat]

With a name like that, I'd expect to logon by typing "By the Power of Greyskull!". (Skellitor might explain the haunting part.) Or start some quest to boldly go where no one has gone before!

Universe does not exactly suit the cozy pub atmosphere I'd be looking for.

what a nonsense...

[selderrr]

could being an IM buddy with someone later come back and haunt you?

Could my 1 year old son being a friend with someone in day care come ack later and haunt him ?

Puhlease ! What a FUD. Are you trying to even further associalize those who are socioophobes but found AIM a useful tool to make friends ? Stop being so afraid of life !

Re:what a nonsense...

[selderrr]

that's ridiculous. Chances are far bigger that he'd meet someone on AIM who will later in his life save his life or donate a million bucks or teach him how to basket or marry him or drive him to the station every wednesday or ... whaveter...

The point is that for one chance in a million (yea yea, throw me a terry pratchet), you're giving up a thousand possible beneficies.

Go live with the monks in tibet, dude. And stab your eyes out, cut your ears off and eat your tongue for god forbid you might one day in tibet stand in a public loo pissing besides the next osama, for which the feds will spend a billion bucks to haunt you and chain your bollocks to guantanamo beach rocks.

Re:what a nonsense...

[Anonymous Coward]

that's not a problem of IM, that's a problem of your country. Guilty until proven otherwise.

Re:The Internet becomes more like the real world..

[selderrr]

I am totally baffled... More and more, I have the impression that a majority of slashdotters is really afraid of any form of bidirectional and/or replyable (you call it tracable) communication. For heavens sake : where's the principle of "innocent till proven otherwise" ?

I notice this attitude going on at my kids school too : don't talk to anyone, don't look at anyone, don't think about anyone. Curl up inside your safe self-shell and murmur away. I once had hope that the internet, and especially AIM were a way out of this downward spiral, but the FUDders and paranoiacs are well on their way to ruin that utopia.

Makes life easier & harder for law enforcement

[G4from128k]

Although online social network technology makes it easier for law enfrocement to track people and find out who they are connected too, it also makes life harder for the law. These types of networks encourage large numbers of connections. While the subjects of an investigation might only call a dozen different people by phone, they might have hundreds of contacts in an online environment. Tracking down all these contacts, most of whom are innocuous, becomes a labor-intensive needle-in-a-haystack problem.

The more contacts people have, the harder it is to determine which contacts are the salient ones from the standpoint of investigation.

social networking

[DavidDeLux]

This looks like somebody else is jumping on the social bandwagon... how many services will be popping up to offer such facilities in 2004?

Actually, this reminds me of LinkedIn.com, but I suspect the signal-to-noise ratio will be a bit different ;-)

In fact, I don't see anything wrong with using a computerized system to help with social netwoking... but as in real life, you gotta be careful out there, although its too early to say whether it will be better or worse than getting scammed/screwed/whatever through a service like this or in real life.

Invite only. So now we are not invited to computer

[SmallFurryCreature]

Invite only. So now we geeks are not invited to computer parties as well? Dang.

A lot of things will come back to haunt us

[sisukapalli1]

Usenet posts, for example. Slashdot posts too. However, with so many people being online, unless one plans to run for a major office, things won't be scrutinized much (or, atleast one can hope for that).

I wonder how a race for a public office in 2020 would look like. A multimedia ad sponsored by next generation media cronies will say, "Candidate xyz posted *THIS unpatriotic message* on slashdot in 2003, so don't vote for him" A lot depends on how the people evolve by then -- may be they will wisen up and can think for themselves, or may be they no longer cease to be people and just become sheeple.

Definitely, interesting times ahead.

S

Re:A lot of things will come back to haunt us

[Councilor Hart]

Hey guys, from 2020, who are investigating my posts.
Please bear in mind that viewpoints can and do change.
If everyone always stick to their opinions - right or wrong - then what is the point of debate? Changing your mind is allowed. Hopefully most - me included - do it because the arguments from the other side were better or because the first opinion was based on a flaw.
My posts represents my viewpoint at the moment of posting. It can be different from my ideas in the past, it can be different from those in the future. My idea can change the moment I read someone's reply a few minutes later. It can change years later or not at all.
To make progress, you have to allow that someone changes his mind.
We are not born with ideas preprogrammed, we make them as we go through live. And we change them in those years.
To point out what someone said 20 years ago is meaningless. Look at what is being said today.
You can look at skills or style or ... with wich those ideas were presented at the time, but the ideas themselves could have changed.
Is the person trustworthy and qualified? That is one of the questions you should be asking yourself.

See you in parliament in 2020. Give or take a few years.
english != native language

Re:A lot of things will come back to haunt us

[craXORjack]

You make a very good point. However if George Bush Jr can snort cocaine yet be elected President 25 years later when his party advocates mandatory prison for drug users, then I have to think there are other factors much more important to running for office. Such as: does your daddy control the CIA, are you rich, are you easily manipulated by daddy's business associates, do you have no respect for life, etc.

How is this different?

[Garwulf]

Okay, I've read the article.

So, could somebody please explain something to me: how is this different from what ICQ and the other IMs already offer? It almost feels to me like somebody putting a nice new coat of paint on something that's already there, and then bragging about it.

Re:How is this different?

[Trejkaz]

The only difference is currently you can't see your friend's friends list. For ICQ to implement a social networking app, they would need to permit this, but you're right, it's really just showing the same information.

27 Year Old Russian Girl Wants To Meet You

[gadlaw]

Humm, I remember when ICQ was a wonder and people from around the world would drop by for a visit and a chat. Now that has changed and the only people who ever want to message me anymore are those 27 year old russian girls with websites and they want me to look at their pictures. Eh? I know where to get good p0rn and it isn't from the web or from fake 27 year old girls. I doubt very seriously that any sort of social networking system in the AOL crapware that ICQ has become can ever be good. -Unless of course there are plenty of pretty 27 year old russian girls who want to really meet me that is. So sayeth the gadlaw.

Not to Worry...

[Quantum-Sci]

could being an IM buddy with someone later come back and haunt you?

In the US Constitution is a provision called "freedom of association". You can be friends with whom you want. (Until that too, is undermined by The Party, at least)

If your friend is a drug dealer, just don't talk about or be involved with drugs with him.

Chatting can indeed be dangerous!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to work on AOL as a Guide. One time there was a Guide they suspected was into kiddie porn. So, Not only did they (Law Enforcement) read all of his email for awhile, they also read email of all the people he talked to. Basically they were on a Fishing Expedition. They thought this guy was doing kiddie porn so of course they figured everyone else he talked to must be doing kiddie porn too!

I still remember, the day I opened my mail box (real one) and there was an envelope, from the Virgina Dept of Justice, telling me, hey guess what, we've been spying on your email for a few months while we investigated someone else. Hope you don't mind!!

And this was 6 or 8 years ago! God knows what they can do now, with carnivore and more powerful computers.

Re:Chatting can indeed be dangerous!!!

[saturng]

The fact that all of you are confusing AIM and ICQ is exactly where your paranoid trouble lies - those are different netwroks (still, how stupid) and as long as they are, they cater different people - the close minded, the I-need-my-fix-of-the-6-oclock-news, the Id-rather-live-in-fear-than-talk-to-someone-outsid e-of-north-america crowd of AIM, and those who actually still want to think of the world as a big place full of surprises, a world wide web indeed of ICQ users. And yes, the big bad world has porn (which can be easily blocked), and not so nice people (which can be ignored), and yeah, if you're stupid enough to talk about your boss on your work computer (or porn or anything else workplaces dont appreciate) then you have it coming. and u know what? Not chatting can be dangerous too. try the universe, you may just like it

Re:The Internet becomes more like the real world..

[lxs]

Curl up inside your safe self-shell and murmur away.

Isn't that precisely the attitude that is fostered by these invite-only networks? The great thing about the internet today is that you can talk to people whether you belong to their clique or not.

The fact that posts like these are public record does mean that you do have to watch your words, but I don't think that is a problem as long as your posts are reasoned out and you're prepared to defend your position, or admit that you were wrong. If someone really wants to dig up dirt they will always find something, so you might as well speak freely.

Re:The Internet becomes more like the real world..

[selderrr]

If someone really wants to dig up dirt they will always find something, so you might as well speak freely.

totally. In these, an AIM social network is no different from your local darts club. The point I'm trying to make is that I'm stunned by the FUDders that want to make us believe that AIM is a jungle with a IDthief behind every tree. I can't and won't let them say such nonsense. AIM is a free speech network wheer you can say dumb things that can blow up in your face. Just like real life. But that's no excuse to label it as dangerous.

I happen to think this is a good thing

[jobugeek]

If you felt strongly enough to post your opinion to the world then I see no reason why it shouldn't be brought up later. Posting to /. or usenet is no different then stepping up to microphone in a crowded room. People will hear you.

Of course we all have said things we regret, too many people spout off when they shouldn't. But your example of political races would prove interesting to me. If candidate X posted feelings one way on an issue 5 years ago and is now campaigning the other way, I'd certainly like to know why.

Re:The Internet becomes more like the real world..

[filekutter]

I finally joined one of the 'networks' because of a recommendation from a friend, and was a bit non-plussed by the amount of personal information I was immediately asked to provide (by choice fortunately). A wonderful database for people to phish to say the least, and I saw absolutely NO warnings about possible abuses by unknown parties. I also must admit that the program and the idea of 'networking' with a bunch of people I don't know doesn't really appeal to me, and it will probably become a dusty link.

Irony Meter

[handy_vandal]

Thus typed by an anonymous coward. I'd better switch my irony meter to a higher scale.

Dude, this is SlashDot -- you're gonna max out your irony meter ....

-kgj

Do you know what I use to socially network?

[holizz]

I meet new people via friends. You know, I get added into a group conversation (IM or IRL) and I say hi and they say hi.

I've never used social networking websites.

This bubble will burst

[heff]

The social networking craze is eerily reminisent of the dotcom heyday - sure the technology is cool but does it really make all that much of a difference in the world or to people? Will people pay for it? I doubt it.

I have no idea why all the VC's are dumping money into these things.. it's only a matter of time before this little "bubble" bursts.

non-issue

[U.I.D 754625]

For example, could being an IM buddy with someone later come back and haunt you?

In the same way talking to the person in the checkout line in front of you could come back to haunt you. Slashdot of all places tries to explain that things done on the internet are NOT NEW just because they are on the internet, and then we have a story driving the other point of view. You always have to be careful with other people, but in order to live, you can't hole up in the basement thinking mommy told me not to talk to strangers.

Degrees of Separation

[Atryn]

For example, could being an IM buddy with someone later come back and haunt you?

Well, we all know that President Bush is only 2 degrees of separation away from Osama Bin Laden (maybe 1?) and that didn't seem to hurt him any. :)

That is why PGP/GPG is your friend!

[MikeCapone]

PGP

gnuPG

Livejournal is my social network

[samael]

I have friends all over the place who I keep up with via LJ. Sure, I also use email and MSN/ICQ/AIM to chat. But when I want to find out what they've been up to, I check my friends list.

LJ supports RSS, FOAF and is intrinsically interconnected. To my mind it's much more of a social network than anything else I've used.

Tell this Mr. Arar ...

[TekGoNos]

... who was send to Syria to be tortured
because a suspected terrorist signed
his rental lease as a witness six
years earlier.

"freedom of association" is nice,
but in this terrorist-witch hunt
society, your rights dont count
for much.

Therefor you should be carefull
what to write
(online)
or whom do you chat with.

Even if not
tortured, you might find yourself
constrained for interrogation for an
unlimited time

as a suspected terrorist.

That being said, you shouldnt become paranoid either. The governement will probably monitor you for a while before they decide to take any action and as long as you dont write things like "I swear death to all infidels" you probably wont be bothered.

But "freedom of association" (or any civil right for that matter) is a myth.
Defending our civil rights from terrorists has become more important than respecting these civil rights.