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Viacom and DishNetwork Battle On Air Over Contract
An anonymous reader writes "This weekend, Viacom stations began scrolling messages on their cable stations(MTV, Comedy Central, Nickelodeon, etc) stating that DishNetwork may soon be removing the channels from its lineup and urging subscribers to call DishNetwork. DishNetwork subscribers(me!) may have begun to see black bars cover the messages and calls to DishNetwork regarding the messages were greeted with a recording telling subscribers to call the President and GM of KCBS. These antics stem from lawsuits here. I, for one, will be switching to DirecTV if they don't get this figured out."
...two big companies fighting and suing, and who gets screwed? The customers. They're the ones losing the channels and getting black bars on their screens...
And who wins? The lawyers, of course.
libertarianswag.com
One wonders whether these calls for help actually get people to call in, and how many people have to call for the company to want to keep a show. I'd imagine some people see that and say "sweet merciful crap, first commercials, and now a telethon in between". Guess it's a good thing I'm too much of an internet junkie to care about TV anymore. :)
I still get those damn scrolling messages. Haven't looked to see if they covered them up with anything, but it's quite a freaking shame to have MY PAID FOR channels have a scroll-bar at the bottom because of a scuffle with an entirely different company.
The message itself was inflamitory, saying how customers should call Dish to keep the channels that "they [the consumer] paid for!" when that doesn't describe the scope of the suit in the least...
First we have SCO suing customers (and another company did too last year) and now crap like this being pulled with companies using customers as pawns in their power games between each other.
Maybe companies are forgetting one thing and one essential thing. No matter how much money they have or how many years theyve been around and on top they got where they are by being a service to their customers
It sounds like neither of these companies are doing that any more. It's the death throes of business when distraction overcomes service.
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I've been a DishNet sub for 8 yrs now. To say I'm unhappy with the quality of their products would be an understatement. I'm ready to jump ship to DTV as soon as the HD DirecTiVo ships.
BUT, Viacom is the evil party here IMO. They're holding Dish and all of its customers hostage until Dish accepts unreasonable contract terms. I for one, don't want higher TV monthly charges just because Viacom forces Dish to carry some obscure channels that the vast majority of subs will never watch.
A la carte pricing would address this, but that's a whole nuther discussion.
Who would ever subscribe to Dishnet? DirecTV rules! Seriously, I've seen both, and DirecTV won hands down!
Those of us who want a package for $25.
MTV is such crap. They had an excellent show, Clone High, which they cancelled. As far as I'm concerned, Viacom can screw themselves.
And Comedy Central is just boring most of the time. I can't figure out how Dave Attell earned the title of "Comedian". All he does is just take us around shitty neighborhoods chatting with stupid people. If I wanted to see that, I would watch Cops.
Last I heard, Viacom wants Dish to carry Nickelodeon's GAS channel or some such... and Dish said no, so Viacom said you can't carry anything then unless you pay us more money. So then Dish ran crying monopoly and... now I will have no CBS or UPN since I get the Boston feeds. I don't have any big connection to Dish except my hardware investment, but I can't blame Dish for the problem (since I tend to dislike monopolies myself). Changing to DTV seems like caving to Viacom's corporate muscle...
So, in other words, nothing worth watching.
I don't like big words..., does that make me anti-semantic?
DirecTV rules!
Their content is _arguably_ better (especially when it comes to HD), but the company is no better than the RIAA. Remember the smart card lawsuits? Why on earth would you willingly do business with a company like this?
Where's my lobbyist? Right here.
You forget that this is an election year and that due to corporate scandals and the like, the unwashes masses *want* to see some blood in the water.
And let's not forget their own investors.
Dish Network holds about 8% of the TV audience. What that means is that there will be an instant drop in the audience by 8% on all of the affected stations.
Viacom does not own any distribution arms other than OTA TV stations. Their entire cable empire stands at risk if they can't make deals with outside distributors. Viacom needs Dish more than Dish needs Viacom.
Yeah...I don't understand why Dish has to pay Viacom to carry them. Doesn't Viacom already have commercials to support them? Dish is just a nice way to distribute their commercially supported content....you'd think they'd be more reasonable.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
No, it's not censorship... jesus christ. Viacom is intentionally scrolling messages to try and turn Dish Network subscribers against Dish Network by making it seem like Dish is "threatening" (I quote) to drop various popular channels such as Nickelodeon, Comedy Central, etc.
I don't think it's unfair to expect Dish to try and block out that kind of obvious bullshit. If the issue really were that simple, then okay, but Viacom is trying to play ignorant consumers against Dish Network by manipulating them with half-truths and menacing terms. I see nothing wrong with Dish trying to defend itself from these flagrant attacks by blotting the messages out.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
I can live without most of them especially BET/MTV/VH1. I'll miss the Comedy Central, but then I should be doing homework anyway.
They don't have to. They own that particular bit of the TV landscape. Just like if you want to advertise your business or cause you can do it for free and pretty much how you want on your own property.
So, Viacom, regardless of the motive and underlying garbage involved, can scroll whatever they please across their own broadcast.
However, I do not think that Dish has any standing to block said scroll. Simply because it sets a bad precedent. What's to stop them from blocking boobs on HBO or bleeping the Chappelle Show when he drops an N-bomb?
Yeah Dish network for resisting Viacom's cash grab. Personally I think every one of the channels mentioned should be FREE to the cable and sat operators and anyone with a dish for that matter. They are commercial supported broadcasters, not pay channels. Somewhere along the line the rules changed and now we PAY to watch commercials. Screw that. HBO, no problem because viewer fees are the only way to have movies without commercials. But MTV and Comedy Central should be able to support themselves with the commercials the same way the traditional broadcasters manage to get along without collecting fees from the viewers.
Democrat delenda est
No, it's not censorship... jesus christ.
Censorship is still censorship. I don't support the KKK, but I respect their right to say what they want openly without being told what they can and cannot say.
Oh no. It's the "I don't like TV" elitists coming out again. People complain about religious groups like the Gideons or tele-evangelists being annoying, but I swear the no-TV guys are far worse IMHO. They'll spring at any opportunity to either shove their viewpoint down your throat, or at LEAST make sure you're aware of their "superior" choice not to watch TV. One of of my all time favorite movie scense, from Pulp Fiction (paraphrased):
Jackson: You know pilots for TV shows?
Travolta: I don't watch TV.
Jackson: Yes, but you are aware that there IS an invention called television on on this television they have shows.
Hats off to Viacom for this brazen and underhanded move. Not only did they post Dish's number and completely flood Dish's phone network with irate customers, they also hurt Dish by scaring off people who saw the scroll and will avoid Dish network so they don't miss channels. But I think it will come back to haunt them. They set the tone, and I hope they will remember who was trying to screw who first when those stations go off air to be replaced by a black title card with a Viacom's phone number urging customers to call them and demand their stations back. Dish has the propaganda power then, and the two days of irate people calling Dish will easily be countered by weeks of irate people calling Viacom.
I don't understand why Dish has to pay Viacom to carry them
The submitter says it all:
"I, for one, will be switching to DirecTV if they don't get this figured out."
Dish is buying content that appeals to their subscribers and can draw more subscribers. It is more symbiotic than just a distribution system. Viacom gets viewership, Dish network gets something to sell.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Censorship is still censorship. I don't support the KKK, but I respect their right to say what they want openly without being told what they can and cannot say.
Ahh but there is where you become lost, grasshopper. For the only 'right' regarding speech is freedom from Government censorship. A corporation is entirely within its rights to control what is broadcast over its own satellite. Much as a sysadmin can delete forum posts he or she does not want to host.
Repeat the mantra again, young one...
"Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech."
"Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech."
"Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech."
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
unfortunately, its going to be Howard Stern's blood :(
- tom -
Each time, a few words in, a black bar appeared across the screen to block it out.
;) ), and besides, I'm perfectly capable of filtering for spam on my end.
[ from the article: "DishNetwork subscribers(me!) may have begun to see black bars cover the messages"]
Now, I seem to remember a fuss about how modifying web-proxies (like Proxomitron) which remove ads from web pages, and TIVO-like devices, which allow the editing out or skipping of broadcast ads, violated the creator's copyright.
My feeling is that editing out, as an end-user, is perfectly acceptable, equivalent to glancing away from a TV or scribbling over an ad in a magazine.
But that's because I got the content the creator wished me to get, and I made a decision to ignore it. And indeed, that's what a judge decided in the case of those browser add-ons that replace a site's ads with their own: since the end user (wittingly or nor!) installed it, it's ok.
But were my ISP to start modifying pages I received via my ISP's pipe, I'd be outraged: it's one thing for me to ignore whatever ad is showing on Slashdot today (yes, I use Proxomitron), it's quite another not to have the option to see that ad. Similarly, at one point, my hosting company (not my ISP) was filtering my email for spam. I promptly told them that wasn't what I wanted: I'm paranoid enough to about missing mail (you never know when an old ex-girlfriend is suddenly going to realize she's still in love with you -- and so far none of them have, but I live in hope
So how can it be legal for Dish to edit out content that's is efficiently advertisements on Viacom's stations?
And how can we let the precedent be set that a carrier, not a creator or an end-user, has any right to do this? Because while what's being edited out is effectively an advertisement by Viacom, it is also an editorial comment. which leads to a slippery slope: if Dish can censor this, can they also censor a story on "60 Minutes" critical of Dish? A new story about, or an advertisement by, a political candidate that Dish doesn't want you to see?
Just because you're the client of some carrier should not mean that that carrier has any right to regulate -- or, as in this case, change what you see. This is dangerous, and desires to be slapped down quickly and decisively.
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
No, sorry, not a bit. And here's why:
I had DirecTV and was completely satisfied, then switched to cable (because it was "better" and I got a cable modem that worked about 50% of the time), dumped that nonsense and went to Dish Network. One of the reasons was I could finally get NASA TV with Dish.
Dish, DirecTV, and your local cable company have to buy programming packages from the vendors, such as Viacom. They dont get to pick and choose ala-carte. So you, as an end-purchaser, dont get the chance to pay for just what you watch. The service provider gets stuck with the contracted package and has to air the losers along with the popular high rating channels.
Personally, I prefer the satellite way because 1) I'm in control of the hardware. I dont mind climbing a latter and replacing a piece of cable that gets damaged. At least I dont have to take a day off from work to wait on a cable installer. If I move, it takes me 30 minutes to install and aim the dish. 2) The price is tremendously cheaper all around. The earth station equipment was free with free installation, and 3) the quality is much better. Straight mpeg video out of the decoder, not a signal that has passed through gawd knows how many line amplifiers between the head-end and my house. My cable reception looked like something off a cheap roof-top antenna.
The only way I would dump what I have is if someone would pull fiber to the curb, like we've been promised for years.
That is just the tip of the iceberg. Personally I don't like Stern at all, I think he's one of the most overrated radio personalities ever. However, I do support free speech, and I think that parents should be responsible for what their kids read/see/hear, within reason.
Try explaining to my boys that they're not in danger of loosing Spongebob. Sometimes, almost wish they couldn't read.
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
I'm getting the damn banner while trying to watch TNG. I DO NOT CARE because I'm not a Dish subscriber. Whoever targeted this is a lazy idiot who can't be bothered to not irritate people who have no interest in the matter. They'll probably end up with more irritated subscribers that start phoning them to complain from other networks than they get DISH subscribers complaining. (Er, I couldn't figure out how to word that so it would make sense, but I'm sure readers can figure it out...) If they don't quit doing this within the next few days, I'll fire off an annoyed email and drop the season pass -- and yes, Nielsen is now tracking who watches what via TiVo, so it will count against them.
i am a soviet space shuttle
Swich to DirecTV, and Viacom will try to shake them down next. To hell with Viacom!
How ya like dat?
If you want to know an advantage, how about Dish never sued any of their customers or started filing blanket lawsuits against anyone with a completely legal and legitimate ISO card programmer.
If you are not willing to vote with your dollars, what are you willing to do?
Go Charlie [Ergen, spiritual and actual leader of Dish Network]!
The wacky seasons, the reality shows, the lack of any script writing, 30% commercials... it all pissed me off.
I dropped my cable TV to the lowest possible tier and signed up for Netflix instead. When I'm sure my cable company can properly separate cable and Internet services, I'll drop the cable TV altogether.
At a DVD per day, it should take me a little more than 40 years to get through the Netflix inventory. No commercials, and I get to watch what I want when I want it -- the reason I signed up for cable to begin with.
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a USPS mail truck full of DVDs.
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
This is *exactly* why ala-cart channels are better for citizens. The package idea would not fly in any other market.
"No, sir, you can not buy that printer without also buying the computer."
"No, sir, you can not have a soda without also buying the burger and fries."
The media companies, however, are huge and know they have the weight to toss around. I've never used either dish provider, but I'm glad to see one stand up to keep citizen's prices lower (and thus their own, of course.)
I, for one, will be switching to DirecTV if they don't get this figured out.
That's what they want. Dish Network doesn't want to pay more money and charge you more. They're fighting for you. If you can't see that, you're a total dick.
Think about things once in a while. It might do you some good.
Stupid reaction to stupid problem.
Why not disallow *phone* ordering of customized selection? Instead allow it over the web where you can browse the listing and click & pick? I know e-commerce sites are Difficult(tm), and cable/dish companies are not the brightest bunch, but still...
Except that DirecTV has recently struck a deal with Viacom. Perhaps this is what the problem is and DirecTV is hoping to dislodge their main competitor with Viacom as a pawn?
I'm not speaking on any authority here, just musing.
"Terminate?"
"Terminate... with extreme prejudice"
DirectTV extorts money from people if they own a SmartCard reader..
DishNetwork and viacom play foolish "kids" games with the consumers.
and Comcast is just, well expensive, and could care less about it's consumers.
Dish wants to pick and choose what they want to air, instead of taking packages...and Viacoms stance is its a package, they want some they take them all.
I find it ironic that when dealing with the customer, Dish Network (along with every other Sat and Cable provider) ends up taking Viacom's position on the matter. Customers ask to pick and choose channels, but they are forced to take packages. I couldn't give a crap about the golf channel, but I have to take it (and 10 others I don't want) if I want Discovery. Maybe they need to learn that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Actually that assumes that all Dish Network Subscribers watch all these stations.
Very unlikely.
They would see they *potential* decreased by up to 8% assuming that all those people did not go to someone else's house, local bar, or switch providers to watch those stations.
More likely they would only lose a fraction of a share and that may just warrant the risk of the service provider alienating its distributor in the hopes of a better deal.
If they start, Bush and Ashcroft are going to go down as the people who sent the Republican Party into the graveyard.
Rupert Murdoch is basically gambling his empire on DirecTV. Increased content regulations will hurt his profit (porn is the most profitable aspect of DirecTV's business). If the GOP becomes a threat to the profitability, Rupert will try to eliminate the GOP.
This means prime-time specials on Fox, Fox Sports, and Fox News denouncing the Republican Party as the Communist Party of the USA. This means every GOP scandal will be fully aired in the New York Post.
He's taken down governments in Australia and the UK before.
I've been waiting for someone to do this.
I'm sick of having to pay for dozens of channels I never watch and don't want, just to get the half dozen I do want.
I want the cable company to let me pay for just the channels I want. That means no news channels and no sports channels. Ironically, most of the Viacom channels are ones I'd pay for.
I'd also pay extra for HBO, if I didn't have to pay for all those news and sports channels... but since I do, no HBO for me.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Contrary to what Harrison Bergeron might predict, I somehow doubt people will just sit idly by while soccer moms on a preacher's wives tell everyone how to live their lives
Right. Because we all fought so valiantly (and successfully!) against Tipper Gore and the PMRC. And video game ratings. And countless other attempts at censorship of what we watch, read, play or listen to.
Be careful what you wish for....
"I planned within my means and got a fixed rate mortgage, so where's MY bailout?" -cafepress
From two years in a DTV call center, I can say that the contracts they make you sign are because of the cost of the equipment and installation. Or at least that's what supervisors told us. I'm not sure if we were supposed to let the customers know that or not, but it did help them see it from the company's viewpoint when they were pissed cause they couldn't leave.
Granted, it's better for the company if you commit to a year of service, but some of the equipment deals give you three receivers and installation for less than $100. Speaking only in terms of DirecTV giving you the equipment (which they didn't until the tail end of my sentence, er, employment with them which ended two years ago) rather than an outside dealer, that was pretty cheap.
If you're buying your equipment from anybody other than DirecTV (I don't know how Dish does it, what I know is DTV), you signing a contract allows the equipment dealer to get money from DirecTV. The dealer often loses money on the equipment, depending on what special they have going on at the time, but they make it back and then some with the money they get from DTV when you sign the contract.
It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye. Then it's fun and games without depth perception.
You are bitching because Dish and DTV are making you buy a package when you only want one channel? Well, what the hell do you think this squabble is about? Dish and DTV have to buy the whole package from Viacom just to get one channel. Dish and DTV want to pay Viacom per channel just as much as you (whether they want to allow you to pay per channel is different).
The reason Viacom won't do the PPC is that the number of people who will actively decide to pay for Nicktoons is much lower than that for Comedy Central... therefore it will be tough to support that channel. The reason Dish and DTV won't do PPC is that the cost for them to distribute Nicktoons is the exact same as Comedy Central. And they have to distribute it to everyone (just that everyone won't be decoding it), so if nobody buys it, why distribute it?
So, would you rather pay $2 per channel and only get the 30 or so channels you watch, or $40 and get 300 channels? I know I'd opt for the first. The problem becomes that lower rated channels can no longer support themselves. I don't know their stats, but I'm guessing Golf Channel is gone.
IANAL, but I play one on