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Protecting Our Parents' PCs?
Frustrated Son asks: "I assume that many Slashdot readers must serve as the IT staff for their parents. My folks get my old machines and just enough software to be productive. I try to protect my parents from the forces of evil by installing automatic OS updates, virus checkers, spyware blockers, pop-up blockers... But still I find that my parents end up with unwanted applications and dangerous software. What software or strategies do you use to protect your parents' PCs? Is it possible for inexperienced users to surf the net in safety?"
I run into the same problem at my college which distributes laptops to all students. I have come up with a motto that has made life easier for a great many people...
"JUST SAY NO!"
No matter what it's asking, just click no. I've never run into a time where this can cause a problem. If it comes back a few times, (do you want to go to this encrypted page), read it. Then if you're really sure, click yes.
either a mac or install mozilla and open office and other alternatives to the standard ms garbage. if you 'train' them to not use microsoft applications, the chances of them becoming victims is significantly reduced...
Gekido's Lair
I start by making their account a 'guest'. If I have to be the IT staff policy #1 is don't install/change anything without asking! Thus 'guest' works well.
My parents have a Gentoo Linux box, and only I have the root password.
No Internet Explorer/Outlook. Do not let them use it under any circumstances. That's where the vast majority of problems from the internet come from. Get them Mozilla, or Firefox/Thunderbird, or Opera, or anything other Internet Explorer and Outlook.
Remove that blue "e" from the Programs menu, and teach them to click on the little red fox circling the globe. That'll prevent a lot of this from happening...
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
My mom's pretty clever, and she listens to what I tell her when I talk about computers. So, in addition to using AdAware, AVG Anti-Virus, Zone Alarm and Mozilla (web and mail), she knows enough to install all the WinXP updates ASAP and never, ever believe anything that arrives in her inbox. Thank god my father rarely touches that machine... Oh, and I have VNC installed there, too, for when I need to do some remote administration from 1100 miles away.
Another trick that I find useful in XP is to set them up as a limited user, and encourage them to use it for day-to-day stuff (like in *nix), give them the password for the administrator account, but make sure you stress that it should only be used to install software.
..educate them, just a little bit.
just little things, like DON'T use ie on pron sites. don't install little helper applications they didn't spesifically went on to look for(bonzi buddies&etc - just not using ie puts this down pretty well though).
then lock down the computer from any outside access(firewall) but please, don't make it so that the firewall gets in the way since they will figure out how to disable it if it is very annoying(the whole point of why it was there was to remove annoyances, so if it is set to so aggressive that it really becomes an annoyance with a person who doesn't even understand the "allow connection blabla" dialogs it isn't fulfilling it's purpose).
though, these tips are quite obvious. just get it around into their heads that it is good for _them_ to use something else than ie for almost anything if they don't wish to get popups in the middle of doing some spreadsheets.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I actually swapped tech support with a buddy of mine. Its so frustrating trying to tech support your own parental unit machines. So, I tech support his parents, and he tech supports my parents. This has helped a lot in terms of stress and getting annoyed at the "stoopid" questions.
It's not often that users like that legitimately need to install software. Change their account type from "Administrator" or "Power User" to just "User", and they'll be much safer. For when they DO need to legitimately install something, you could let them have the administrator password.
My server
Yeah.. after hand cleaning beagle.j off my dad's laptop this weekend, I'm about ready to tell my family "I don't do windows anymore." Would really like to move them all to macs. Since I bought my 17"pb 9 months ago or so, I've just grown to love it. ...and yes, before anyone says anything, I already have them off of all windows mail readers (they use mozilla and my horde/IMP install to read mail, in fact) but my dad opened an attachment from a friend manually, even though my procmail system had defanged the filename so he had to rename it. What're ya gonna do?
- My favorite error message: xscreensaver, running on an old Sparc 5 w/ 8bit color: bsod: Couldn't allocate color Blue
Get mom an iMac. Install OS X if it doesn't have it already. You can pick up a decent iMac on eBay for around $300, but make sure it's at least 300Mhz. Enable auto-updates. Install Mozilla or Firefox, ensure popup blocking is turned on. Done. You will instantly become the favorite child.
Worked just fine for my grandmother. She'd never used a computer before in her life, so something as easy to use as an iMac was perfect.
As a side note, Safari with popup blocking turned on is as good as Mozilla or Firefox, and you don't need to install it.
"They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
She doesn't have to learn Linux, no one has to spend $$$ on a Mac, and she can still watch those stupid WMV video clips her friends send her links to.
Chances are your parents already have a Windows PC, just keep it and install the right free apps and you'll be all set.
In addition to this, make sure to not set them up as an administrator.
I'm not saying you shouldn't leave them with administrator access, just make sure that it isn't their day-to-day user account.
"Is it possible for inexperienced users to surf the net in safety?" No! Giving computers to the technically illiterate is like giving firearms to children. Computers were supposed to be tools only for the techno-elite. The good thing about viruses, spyware, pop-ups and spam is that they will eventually cause millions to swear off computers, and again they will be tools for the techno-elite.
How ya like dat?
My parents are both in their late 50s. They do not to computers readily, nor do they learn quickly. But they do learn. I've shown my parents, carefully, the results that happen from each action. Install spyware or adware? The computer is slow. Open unknown attachments? Get a virus. Fail to update Windows/Norton/AdAware, get taken advantage of. By now, they can operate pretty close to self-sufficiency. About once or twice a month I'll get an e-mail or an IM if they want to double-check a course of action with me, but 90% of the time they choose correctly with my input in those cases anyway.
In short, stop underestimating people just because they didn't grow up around personal computers. A little bit of time and help can go a long way.
Cogito ergo sum in Slashdot.
Well, neither of my parents are stupid, so I explain to them what it is I am doing and why.
I implement many of the same things as listed in other posts: Non-admin accounts, Firefox, auto-updating virus checkers etc. The point is that all these are solutions selected based on my product knowledge, what I try to give my parents is a good understanding of the first principals involved.
This has equips them to deal with issues in a timely way, solve their own problems, be empowered over the computer as opposed to being intimidated by it and most importantly, not call me every time something happens, but instead call me to boast about how they solved X, Y or Z.
Dialectician. Archology.
If so, that means it had been infected WITHOUT running IE/Outlook etc.
Which makes this discussion moot anyway.
I've got more mod points and GMail invi
I used to do what the OP did, give my parents old machines and clean them up for them. Up until November this worked OK, probably because they were on dial-up, but it was basically just an email/web access for them. In November, my parents decided to get DSL cause they had a deal where it was only $10 more than dial-up (and they no longer needed a second line, so its actually cheaper).
I kid you not, within 4 hours of getting online with DSL my mother had gotten a serious virus that Anti-virus was saying had infected kernel32.dll. OUCH. I didn't know exactly what had happened, but the computer was basically DOA until a certified geek could get working on it. I was NOT about to walk my parents through the process of formatting a drive and reinstalling the OS over the phone.
The earliest chance I had to look at this problem was when I came back for Christmas. So I told my parents this and suggested that they consider getting a new computer - and I recommended a Mac. My dad was totally against the idea, until he saw those new flat-panel iMacs. Then he actually thought they should get that OVER the eMac, which was much cheaper. =) That's what they came home with.
They took it home, set it up, and didn't once call me for help. They called with some internet setup problems, but it was actually the provider's server being flaky. My mom has been really happy with the new machine. She's talking with family via iChat, has figured out email and web just fine, and is even figuring out things I never really taught her. Just a couple weeks ago, she called asking me if she can burn more songs onto an iTunes CD she created. =) I had only introduced the programs like iTunes to her, but never really showed her how to use them, so this was rather surprising to me.
Anyways, they are much happier with the new machine, and honestly my mother in particular feels empowered by the fact that she can do this stuff. I would recommend that everyone at least consider the option. I know it's a bit more expensive, but chances are they'll get more out of the machine as well.
Rules of educating someone:
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If you put a new Windows installation on an un-firewalled Internet connection, it absolutely will be infected by at least W32.Nachia by the time the DNS record for windowsupdate.microsoft.com is resolved.
You cannot put a Windows PC on the Internet for even a second or two without installing a very recent set of patches first. It will be hacked if you do.
I bought my folks a PC. They used it for approximately 4 weeks. Then they said, "you keep it, its too complicated". :)
So i got the PC, i bought them a nice filing cabinet, pens, paper and calculator etc. If they want something typed out, they can ask me, but this isnt often.
i say dont protect their PC's, protect them from PC's
I had to laugh when I read the original post:
"I assume that many Slashdot readers must serve as the IT staff for their parents."
Many of us are the IT staff for our kids! And I don't mean 4 year olds, I'm talking teenagers. Not all teenagers are as computer literate as we'd like to think -- my older step-kids, 11 and 15, have been exposed to tons of computer technology over the past 9 years, but still have much less knowledge than I did at age 10 (1980). I know 60 year old men who know more than young "geeks" that work for me in IT
I think a lot of it has to do with personal interest and motivation. For most average users, they just want to do what they need to do and don't care about Windows or Mac OS X. A computer that needs constant attention from an IT guy is a less useful computer
I'm not trying to push buying a Mac, but this is exactly why I switched to an iMac for home a year ago. It was comparable in price to an equivalent PC from several other manufacturers (HP, Sony, Dell, etc.), but I haven't had nearly the OS problems that I've had with the same kids using a PC. I just got sick of spending 8+ hours per month at home fixing the same I.T. problems we see at work.
My kids generally get my old machines, too. My Mom doesn't just because she's not that interested in it.
It's honestly easier to guide their use of the iMac because I'm home, so if I gave another family member (Mom, brothers, sisters, etc.) a computer, it probably wouldn't be a Mac. The biggest problem is when you look for software and the vast majority of the software is not compatible with the Mac at all. It's too easy for a newbie to buy a quickie piece of software at Walgreens and never realize it's not Mac compatible -- then they get mad at the fact that they have a Mac.
With my kids, I just steer them in the right direction when we're shopping for software. We've been able to do all of our home stuff on our Macs (iMac and PowerBook G4), and about 85% of my I.T. stuff on my Macs (some I.T. things are easier in UNIX/Linux than on Windows, which is nice).
Protection of the innocent is a non-issue on a Mac because I'm a dedicated parent. I don't need filter software, I just know what they're doing and control access times. The rest of the crap we deal with on Windows every day is non-existent in the Mac world.
Yeah, it's nice being a Mac-owning parent...
I got her the iMac for two reasons: 1) It's about the same cost as a Windows box, once you figure in years worth of AV, a better firewall, etc etc,
2) I don't have to worry nearly as much about the box being secure, I just have to educate her about phishing and other user-targeted attacks, and
3) It just runs. I'm not running over to her house all the time to fix it.
It's probably been said already, but the best thing I ever did for my parents' computers was to install Firefox and hide the IE icon.
Nice way to return the respect due to the person that helped give you life.
These trolls are annoying. If you ignore my opinion regarding what is going to serve you best and purchase something more difficult to use and maintain, don't call me asking me to help you use or maintain it.
It's that simple, don't bring in the ``helped give you life'' bullshit. I'm not obligated to help my mom do everything she ever asks, especially when she has specifically ignored my advice and continues to go down that path.
-- The world is watching America, and America is watching TV.
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One thing I appreciated about Apple is their tendency to use verbs- For instance TextEdit's buttons read (Don't Save) (Cancel) (Save) instead of Yes and No. Safari's Add Bookmark pane reads (Cancel) (Add). It's just better that way.
Oh yeah and to keep this on topic, my brother and I just got our mom an eMac and it works well for her (and her 5673 digital pictures).
Windows is not the problem. User-ignorance is a problem, but it's not the big problem either. It's what's installed/configured. Here are some tips:
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
My father got his first computer last year at age 73. Fifteen years ago he used a couple of custom DOS programmes at work for a while, but that's all. Now he had to start from the very bottom basics, things like how to use the mouse and what the shift key does.
For a man who doesn't know what the shift key does, the learning curve is equal in all common operating systems. There was no legacy here, nor any acquired bad habits to take into account. So I installed Redhat on his machine.
The first major advantage, for the both of us, is that I can do everything on his machine remotely. We live some 3000+ km apart, so dropping by to do an update or fix a problem is not an option. However, as long as sshd runs and he can connect to the net, there is no problem that can't be fixed remotely.
The second major advantage is that we could skip most part of the security litany. No Outlook there. No MSIE. No spyware that comes in easy click-here-to-install rpms. Mozilla is secure enough for clueless use all by itself and, if he ever tries to run Netsky, all he'll get is a question he can't answer.
The third major advantage is that he is protected against himself. He can't ruin the system no matter what he does. Yes, he does have the root password, but he has no concept of what root is and no wish to find out. A little bash scrip backs up his home directory on CD every once in a while and that's all it takes to keep that system sane.
After eight months, the net result of this is only positive. All the probems he has had so far are of the kind he would have had on Windows too. Of all the problems mentioned in the main article, he has had none.
My short advise is: if your parents are new to computers, don't waste their learning efforts on Windows. Go straight for your favourite OS, as long as it has a good-looking and well-functioning GUI on top of it.
teach them how to use XFree86 and GNOME or KDE. No more spyware, worm, virus, dangerous program threats. Use Evolution for Email, and OpenOffice.org for Office software. Use Mozilla or Firefox for web access.
Either that or don't give them an account with Admin access to install programs on their Windows system.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Just load their system with auto-updates, etc, then make a restore image on CD or slave hard-drive. Give them a boot floppy that automatically restores to your original config. Now you just have to teach them to save to the slave drive.
Two big conduits for evil software. I've seen moderately protected machines (no router, no auto updates, no spyware elimination) with very little bad stuff, and well protected machines with tons of crap because the owner(s) look at porn and/or download music. Please folks, don't think Mom or Dad are above surfing for pron or grabbing a couple of tunes.
Perhaps you confuse "statistical correlation" with "ironclad guarantee." You give two data points, yourself and the friend you were helping. That's not enough to do anything with. All you've shown is that now all Asperger's people have technical parents, which we already knew, and that not all autistic people are good with computers, which we also knew. Or at least, I knew. The surprising thing is that many technical couples DO have children with Asperger's. Note the "many." This research doesn't address the other side AT ALL, which is how many Asperger's kids have technical parents. It may not be many at all, but it's still significant from the perspective of a possible parent. To put it another way, being stabbed by a mugger is not a leading cause of death among the population at large, but it may be a serious consideration when a shady character is eyeing you and reaching for his pocket.
Let's assume their system starts out hosed, so we either have to clean it up or reinstall, first.
Then we have to go through and manually disable all of these services.
Then we have to set up separate accounts and hope that they're not going to run anything that requires using the admin account. We either have to not give them the admin password, or give it to them and pray that they don't just use it for everything.
Then we have to download a third-party browser and somehow keep them from using IE.
And finally, we have to buy and install ghost and set up separate partitions and make sure ghost works with them.
How is this "simple", again? You can install Mac OS X, and have it be in a fully secure yet completely ready to use state in twenty minutes, most of which is just watching the pretty animated progress bar move from left to right.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
You forgot to mention running a firewall. Zone Alarm is excellent and free. If nothing else, enable the firewall that ships with XP.
If you as a third move install third-party software for netuse (Opera, Mozilla. That kind of stuff), you'll need some pretty clueless people in order to screw the machine over.
Though be careful with something that has pop-up blocking installed. I've been trying to switch my family PC over to Firefox as the default browser, but the pop-up blocker frequently blocks necessary pop-ups on safe commerce sites. This can be very confusing. You click on a link, then end up with a blank browser window, because the data is presented in a (blocked) pop-up.
The fourth and probably best move you can ever do, is setup a systempartition with only the system and applications (move documentfolders elsewhere), and take a Ghost-snapshot. Then if they somehow manage to screw up, you're recovered in 5 minutes with absolutely no hassle.
Agreed, but also realize that almost all PCs from Dell, etc., ship with one big partition. So you have two choices: either reinstall everything from scratch, doing the partition as part of the XP install (a long and painful job overall), or buy Partition Magic for $70. Then to do the ghosting, you need to buy another utility. This is at least $100 worth of software, which is a lot to ask (20% of the cost of a $500 PC). Or do you know of some cheaper or free alternatives? I'd (seriously!) love to hear about them. What software do you use for this?
Ok. Forgot Firewall. But I think it get's turned on by default, unless you tell Windows otherwise.
Opera can be configured (very easily) to only allow requested popups. Works very well. Have yet to see it fail. And you don't have to use the pop-up blocker at all, if you for some reason fancy pop-ups.
Yes. But you if they screw up, it's reinstall immidiatly (once) or reinstall later (multiple installs). I know what I'll go for.
I don't know what the price for Symantec Ghost is, seriously. However I have had the luxery of working in a IT-department, which were using Ghost as their primary installation tool.
Call me a thief, but a 600kb DOS-program used only to recover a broken machine once a year, can be copied without feeling to guilty about yourself.
And if you create a Linux bootdisk I'm pretty sure a quick "dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/ghostbackup/in-case-they-screw-it-up.raw" will do the job just as fine, just without the compression. And diskspace is excess these days.
Yes, you can use Linux tools to maintain a Windows setup. Just remember to keep the Ghost-file on a FAT-partition. That way it can be accessed from more or less any tool and OS.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
As a professional, I can't imagine supporting anyone without a copy of SystemRescueCd [sysresccd.org] on hand for just these kinds of problems. A single linux bootable CD image with GNU software such as GNUParted [gnu.org], QTParted [sourceforge.net], and Partimage [partimage.org], all of which are excellent and FREE replacements for PQMagic or Ghost.
Okay, I looked at those programs. GNUParted does not appear to allow re-partitioning on the fly, which is the whole point of Partition Magic. QTParted is a 0.4 beta version. Kinda scary for something that messes with filesystems and partitions. Partimage only includes "experimental" support for the NTFS file system, the Windows standard. I'll stick with Partition Magic and Ghost, thank you.