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Apple Sued in France for iPod Music Royalties
alex_guy_CA writes "A musicians rights group in France is suing Apple Computer for back royalties due from iPod sales. It seems in France, all CDs, hard drives, and the like owe musicians money in case any of it is used for piracy. Only Apple isn't paying up." I want compensation from sales of Microsoft Windows just in case it is used for spreading viruses.
"It seems in France, all CDs, hard drives, and the like owe musicians money in case any of it is used for piracy."
Does that mean that organizations like the RIAA are prohibited from suing music downloaders because the musicians have already been paid by the state (perhaps through some industry group), or is this just a tax?
Ahh see but in France they're not actually paying the tax while in Canada they are. I sure paid my $25 extra for my iPod last month and they clearly label that (bright red letters...yup).
So, here's an easy (if not cheap) solution.
Pay up, then stop selling. Refuse to sell so long as that law is in place.
Apple's got the kind of fan base that might make that tactic popular.
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Even that sounds like a reach. Their system is like that used in other nations where there is a fee on media that goes to artists no matter if their work is illegally copied or not.
The question that the article does not answer is if all/any HDD manufacturers pay the fee already. Guess what? If the fee was already paid by the manufacturer then Appled paid the fee already when they bought the drives. Not saying that is the case, but it is something to think about. Also, if no HDD manufacturer pays this fee then the threat is just as stupid as it sounds on the surface.
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
The last time I checked that only applied to countries in which the medium was manufactured. It really stinks that such a fine peice of hardware is getting bad press of a trivial matter. IIANAL, but what is the legality of Apple having to pay for loyalties only applying to specific countries? Is this something that would be taken care of during the trade agreement?
Steal This Sig
Not all countries work the same way as the US. European countries know about international diplomacy and don't take everything personally. Prime example: When bird flu was found in Delaware and the EU banned imports of US poultry due to safety concerns, the US "retaliated" and banned certain European imports. How on earth you can retaliate over a safety matter is beyond me. Is Europe supposed to import the infected chicken so they don't upset the US?
This isn't a dig at Americans or the US, but rather the seemingly childish attitude the US has towards international relations. It seems the US is only prepared to use its "big boy voice" when it wants something, and as soon as it has it, it's back to "little boy voice" complete with huffs and pouting. Go figure.
In Denmark we have levies too, but we're not paying for piracy, we're paying for "fair use". (Not that we have much fair use left - Denmark has one of the strictest copyright regimes internationally)
The distinction is important. I resent the thought of paying levies on CD-Rs used to make backups of albums i bought fair and square. OTOH, if I were allowed to swap and burn music all I wanted I'd happily pay up.
Of course the politicians aren't interested in this distinction at all - to them it's more a matter of stopping the artists from whining. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, that's how politics work.
Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
That's a little trite. One has nothing to do with the other, but it is interesting how laws like this in other countries don't generate the kneejerk reaction they do in the US. The supposedly liberal France and Canada both have such a law. Where are all the open-minded, rights-protecting leaders of such countries when those laws were passed?
Point is every country has some stupid laws. And we Americans have been laughing at the French since looooooong before 9/11. That probably started sometime in 1939 or 1940 at the latest. ;)
It's not a tax, it's a levy. Totally different thing in the eyes of the law.
The only issue I could think of, is if there is a double tax on the players... Such that if Apple is already paying a small tax for each drive they put in the iPod, then the retail sale shouldnt be taxed again. I doubt this is the case though.
The levy is added in to the retail price of the product. If I see CD-Rs for sale at $25, when I go to pay there's no extra levy added to that price, but there are the applicable sales taxes. It's not as bad as what you are assuming, though I'd rather not pay the levy to begin with.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
[i]The levy is added in to the retail price of the product. If I see CD-Rs for sale at $25, when I go to pay there's no extra levy added to that price, but there are the applicable sales taxes. It's not as bad as what you are assuming, though I'd rather not pay the levy to begin with. Pope [/i]
:)
I agree about the tax vs levy point... I just chose to use "tax", as thats what the parent thread and origional posting itself used. Nothing like being wrong for the sake of consistancy!
Are you sure the levy is applied at the retail level? If thats the case, it would the responsibility of each and every vender ( the BestBuys and RadioShacks of the world ) to collect and send the monies in. That would seem a terribly inefficent way to handle it. That is why I had assumed it would be at the manufacturers level that the levy got applied... or failing that, at the distributer level.
I honestly dont know where it is though... im not refuting what you said, im just looking for clarification.
The US would shit its pants, as would the EU. That'd be thousands of jobs lost, support ended, etc. etc.
Three terms:
* Apple
* Linux
* Emminent Domain.
If MS folds all of a sudden, people can switch to Apple with new hardware, switch to Linux for extant hardware--or the government can just declare emminent domain, and start a new company with the rights to windows. (It'd probably be a stock market purchase, with the money from the stock going right to the "fair price" for MS.)
The problem is that Europe is starting to develop a hare-trigger for banning US imports. Afterall, bird flu in one US state does not equate to bird flu being found from coast-to-coast. It'd be the equal of us declaring because a problem was found in Spain that we'd cut off imports of that item for all of Europe... the other countries would have a problem with that.
And when the USA bans all imports of Canadian beef due to one single case of Mad Cow on the Canadian prairies, this is different how?
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
We ought to demand a tax on blank canvas, paper, pens, ink, and paint since those can be use for reproducing copyrighted books and paintings.
Those f'in starving (and I'll guess crappy) musicians will have a harder time paying for their supplies than us computer geeks will paying for our blank media. Before long they'll be begging for the government to rescind all the blank media taxes.
--Rob
Paper is used for more infringement than any other media. Each piece of blank paper could be taxed, with those taxes going to the rights-holders of published works which may be xeroxed, printed from the Web, hand copied, or otherwise imparted to the paper without permission or payment to the content creators.
If it makes sense for other blank media, it certainly makes sense for blank paper. As for the relative value, look at what we devote educational resources to: 'literacy' and 'numeracy' - activities largely on paper - are viewed as crucial, whereas there is no requirement at all to be able to write pop music to graduate high school. So we should have special taxes on blank media which might be used for pop songs, but none on blank media which might be used for depriving investigative journalists and great short-story writers of income? Are pop musicians more deserving of special income from special taxes than writers? Why?
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Thanks for the clarification... that does lead me to a question then...
If the retailers ar the ones who collect the levies, would that mean buying levied media from Costco or Sams would remove the levy? Seeing as the entire ( orginal ) intention of these stores was to be a supplier to other retail stores and government employees?
In other words... If I own a small electronics store, and I source my cdr's from priceclub, since they are going to be resold... the levy should fall to me to collect?
Finally found the text (in french) Here
It does say that the hard-drives integrated into TV, VCR or video decoders and hard-drives integrated into mp3 players (like the iPod) are eligible to the tax.
The law does not apply to hard-drives sold for use in computers.
So this law is not that stupid, if you think that the general law that pay back artists for the right of users to make private copies is a good thing.
BTW, another law (here) says that floppy-disk (3'5 inches only) are eligible for this tax. And this law is probably a lot more stupid.
NB : The site http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr messes badly with cookies so the links above may not work at first.
That could work. Back in the '70s, there was a small Japanese pickup that was sold in the U.S. with a pair of rear-facing, plastic seats in the bed. With those, it became a "car" instead of a "truck," and avoided the tariff on imported trucks.
Q: What does the "B." in Benoit B. Mandelbrot stand for? A: Benoit B. Mandelbrot