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A Handheld for a Primary Computer?
fromtheblueline asks: "As the last of her children leaves the house for college, my mother is planning on ditching her desktop, cable internet and landline in attempts to simplify and reduce bills. She doesn't use her PC for anything more than occasional emails and online purchases and her cell phone has pretty much made her landline obsolete. She emails me asking if there is a handheld that could replace these devices. I don't own one, don't need one (my SE616 and Powerbook is plenty), and really never bothered to research one. A quick search for anything decent reveals prices close to, or over, a low end notebook. As for access, unless she searches for open wifi points, I can't imagine mobile service being anymore competitive than a cable/DSL line coming into a house. Any recommendations, Slashdot?"
Tell her that she can ditch the utilities but keep the PC as a backup/data entry device.
This is true no matter what device she uses.
Instead of Getitng a Handheld pc why not consider a newer Mobile phone, Both the Sony p800 (older) and the newer P900 come with opera built in, they would need no wireless point as they obviously use gprs to connect to the internet, you can also set up mailboxs on the phone to connect to your email servers. To a lesser extent you might also want to consider the Nokia 6600 (what i have) as it does almost all of the above but cheaper than the p900 (but not touch screen)
Just an idea anyhow....
Kingdom of Loathing (www.kingdomofloathing.com) Addicted is me
If she really wants to stay mobile and wants "small and light" then get her a TR series Vaio. If she's not a computer user, get her an 12 inch iBook.
Neither of them are cheap, but it'll be easier than doing tech support the next time she drops it...
If your mother has a bluetooth enabled cell phone, then with T-Mobile at least, she can get access to the internet for $20 a month (plus costs for regular services) through the cell phone and share that access with other bluetooth enabled devices (laptops, PDAs, etc). I guess she could check email and stuff on the phone too, though smartphones are kind of expensive right now and most cell phone screens are kind of small.
:)
I've used my PDA to check the web and email, but repsonding on it is a serious chore. She could just enable her desktop for bluetooth with a usb device.
I'm going on a road trip later this month and I plan to do that. Get a usb bluetooth enabler for my laptop and get the data service from T-Mobile. I guess it's partially the geek factor, but that's just cool to be able to connect to the internet almost anywhere I am. Check directions, road conditions, weather, lodging, food, etc. Plus, I still want to read slashdot
In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these. - Paul Harvey
It's simple really, find her a small notebook, or tablet pc. If she has no probelm with the small screen, go for light weight. True a notebook is bigger than a handheld, but a tablet pc is right there. As for Net access drop down to dial-up. It won't blaze through the net but for general surfing, and email is still acceptable. Make sure it has a wi-fi card, and network card, so she can bring it anywhere and use someone elses network when she wants.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
I spent a couple of weeks using a modern (like less than 6 months old) PocketPC via 802.11b. My results were mixed. I used it for browsing Slashdot and reading the occasional email. Can't say I'd want to do a lot of heavy duty stuff with it, though. It didn't really understand the concept of doing more than one thing at a time. I don't mean multitasking, it did that quite well. I could only open one email at a time, or browse one page at a time, etc. That may not matter to you but it bugged the hell out of me. (not to mention that most sites didn't render on IE readably..)
If all she really does is type the occasional email, then a PocketPC + Bluetooth (using her phone to send the mail out...) + a keyboard for it may not be all that bad. But if she does anything more, she'll ache for her PC again.
"Derp de derp."
Follow your own lead... "I don't own one, don't need one (my SE616 and Powerbook is plenty)..."
Snag an old laptop off ebay and get a PCMCIA phone card to hook into that cellphone service.
-=sig=-
Not worth it. Get a little laptop. I have a Tungsten C, and now I mostly use it for the same things I used my Handspring for. Better to put the money toward a 12-in. iBook - most of the Apple stores have an older G3-based one available for something on the order of $800, and the Apple web store has them for that under "special deals." They're not the latest and greatest, but they're a lot faster and more usable than a handheld.
For her uses, a second hand or refurbished laptop is the best value. Way better than any palmtop, unless she really needs to carry it around all the time. See if you can find a nice used Pismo or Wallstreet Powerbook, they do everything she needs and are better constructed than the newer iBooks.
I highly recommend a Sidekick from T-Mobile. It does it all: Phone, Internet, E-Mail, etc. And it's the entire 'net, not the cheesy mini-pages that the sites put up. It's at a decent price too, I believe $30/mo for unlimited data tranfer.
"Black holes are where God divided by zero." - Steve Wright
PDAs with VGA screens are expected in the next few months. These should make tasks such as browsing websites much easier. The Zaurus SL-6000 will a VGA screen. The Toshiba e800 already has one.
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Warning: Slashdot may contain traces of nuts.
Cidco makes a product called the MailStation. It's a keyboard connected to a small LCD screen for people who just want email. As it's a single-purpose device, I suspect that it's relatively easy to use.
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Personally, I think we still aren't to the point where a mobile phone can replace a landline, but, there are two options I can think of.
I am ignoring the possibility of using a pda for email and shopping. You'll go blind, and input is a pain in the tush.
So log onto ebay and get an old laptop for two or three hundred. Look for the good brands, IBM, Apple, Toshiba, and plan on buying a replacement battery. Then get a good 502.11g card for it. Use the os you wish, you can probably get knoppix running really fast, although windos 98se is ubiquitous and easy to set up. (please! no flame wars!)
If your mom really doesn't want to have a landline, in our area you can get a pcmcia Wireless modem for a couple of hundred for the card and 79/monthly. Or consider locating the nearest Starbucks, or Panera, or University or some other hotspot where she can go have a coffee and do her occasional emailing/shopping.
best of luck!
--Pete
www.avacal.com -- the home page of pete shaw
These are phones that are kinda like a blackberry, it can retrive it's own e-mails, and you can reply to a e-mail via the voice record button. They can run both Palm OS and Windows CE. Which ofcourse has a web browser. SO!
- Surf
- Shop
- E-mail
- Talk
- No PC, No hardline, No worries.
Now, what else do you need?
Disclaimer: Yes, I am involved with the company. OTOH I'm not paid to pitch this ;)
Bot Assisted Blogging
If she already has a cellphone and plan, adding data service to it can be fairly cost effective. I know for a fact that T-Mobile offers unlimited GPRS for $20 a month if you have a $30 plan or greater - otherwise it's $30 a month. That right there is cheaper than broadband (and rightly so, it is slower of course). Verizon and others have similar plans, though most of them specify its for pda use - not laptops/etc. (which, if she gets a pda - won't invalidate the usage at all) [the idea is likely just a "you won't enjoy doing too many tasks at once on this connection"]
That said - your mother probably still wants a full keyboard/etc. to go with things - she certainly doesn't want to be writing emails with a stylus. So unless she's big on thumb typing - you shouldn't rule out anything just because it doesn't have a builtin keyboard. Clie's are fairly cost effective, and Palm has bluetooth connectivity built into palmos 5 and above - perhaps the clamshell clie with the camera/bluetooth/wifi - uw20? I don't know if that has a separate keyboard attachment though.
Keep in mind that she'll be getting a relatively small screen with whaever she does settle on, what specific bills is she saving on by getting rid of her desktop - that she couldn't just get a dialup account instead of broadband to avoid?
cyn, free software and *nix operating systems enthusiast.
- Basic handheld with USB host capability) 300
- wiFi upgrade 100
- Extra storage CF/SD 100
- wiFi router for DSL/Cable 100
- USB keyboard 50
I think the low-end or second-hand laptop is the way to go.And the biggest argument: No printing. Someday you'll be able to hook up a USB printer to a PocketPC, but until then ....
Handheld devices are just not quite there yet, unless if she's extremely minimal use. She could also find a local coffeeshop that offers free internet access via their PC or you're wireless notebook if she doesn't want to pay for access regularly. Or go in with her neighbor and split a cable connection via wireless....
-m
http://www.invisik.com
Your ISP won't like it, but setup an AP in a neighbor's House with broadband, and get her a laptop with 802.11. You might need to play around with antennas and the like to get it working, but it is the only thing I think is worth it in the long run.
Fujitsu has a series called the Lifebook ($1.5K)and a bunch of others all the way down to the ST1000 ($0.32k)
"Can there be a Klein bottle that is an efficient and effective beer pitcher?"
Ok, it doesn't have to be McDonald's but if she can locate a wifi spot in a restaurant/coffee shop close by she can just get email that way.
One should not theorize before one has data. -Sherlock Holmes-
I see three auctions on e-bay for Toshiba Libretto's at the moment, one of them for 8 50CT's that the seller is selling at $385US (each), plus $20 s/h.
Add a standard WiFi card, and it sounds like she would be set.
As an option, that I am not sure I would recomend, but you could "try", I happen to like my Sharp Zaurus SL-5500. I picked up a second one for $185 plus shipping (refurb) on e-bay around Christmas, I see that there are several buy it now's for between 199, and 265 available. It has a thumb keyboard, integrated e-mail, takes a standard cf type wifi adapter, upgrade the linux os and it will take the socket low power wifi adapter, and will take up even less space than the libretto. If she would rather have a fuller keyboard, you might want to search for a zaurus sl-c750, 760, or 860 (there's an 860 for $649 at the moment.)
These (and the Libretto) also have landscape mode displays, rather than the usual portriat of most pdas.
My primary concerns with the 5500 are the display (portrait quarter vga) and the keyboard. The display can be rotated, but not all apps like the rotated mode, web browsing should be fine though.
e-mail clients are built into the Zaurus. I won't claim it's the best out there, but it is workable.
-Rusty
You never know...
I've consider the color sidekick for a while. But, I decided to tail it for now.
h on eid=195184&class=pda.
http://www.t-mobile.com/products/overview.asp?p
It's your simple phone/browser (no javascript)/email pop3/aim/games with full querty keyboard.
I've considered it, b/c it does html, not wap. It's being truly mobile with internet. NY prices has it 50/month:
$19.99 60 Minutes N/A 500 Minutes
Sidekick Unlimited
With Sidekick Unlimited service, you'll enjoy unlimited e-mail, AOL(R) Instant Messenger? Service (AIM(R)), Web browsing, and text messaging.
$20
and
$10 for tax and other bs the final bill tacks on.
Amazon.com has it for 20 bucks after rebate.
More info on the device at hiptop.com
Pros: software updates over the air, no payment necessary (yet). Great if you're never at home and in an urban environment.
Cons: it's still a small screen (compared to a laptop screen), and it doesn't support javascript and it's a 2nd generation model, still room for improvement.
The other alternative is the laptop and wifi cards and I'm not talking 802.11. They're about the same price range 40-60 bucks a month, but they're not unlimited. Plus, I don't know where you can get a deal for their 250-400 dollar cards.
Pros: it's a laptop!
Cons: it's expensive.
Sorry, I didn't do as much research for the pcmcia wifi cards b/c of the cost issue.
Note: if you go true wifi, it's will not be anywhere near landline speeds. It'll feel like modem speeds.
Thanks for all the insight.
I pointed my mom over to this thread, and it seems she'll be dropping the phone/PDA idea going with a laptop.
I'll use anything as long as it runs Nethack, I can PING things, and get some sort of email client on it.
At risk of sounding redundant, I also suggest an iBook or small PC laptop. They're small and easy to get out of the way (could even be stored in a desk drawer when not in use) but you don't have to sacrifice having a real keyboard and you get to have a display larger than 2 or 3 inches. :)
The AlphaSmart Dana is exactly what your mother is looking for. It's basically a simplified laptop running the full PalmOS. Instant on. Full keyboard. Has two USB ports and can print directly to USB printers. Can browse the web, and several good email clients are available for it. One model has built-in WiFi. These are neat little machines.
infrared printing, or bluetooth
WinCE devices aren't designed to run solo, they have to have a "partnership" with a "host" to do things like install software. I had an iPaq for a week before the cradle arrived, and I was trying to install the drivers for the CF wireless card. I had the Dual-CF sleeve for it, with the ma701 in the top slot and a 64-meg flash card in the bottom slot.
.exe file which then loads the drivers onto the portable via the sync cable. Whose assinine idea was this? (don't answer, I already know!)
:)
I figured I could download the driver package and load it onto the CF card at a desktop machine with a reader, then move the CF over to the ipaq, unpack it, and install it. No such luck. The driver ships as a win32
Not that I would've wanted to use an iPaq as my primary machine anyway, even with a foldup keyboard, the screen's too small and the viewing angle is terrible. However, there are a pair of WinCE devices I could imagine using as an everyday machine: The IBM Workpad z50, and the Vadem Clio (a.k.a. Sharp Tripad) are both laptop-style PDAs, with a clamshell hinge and a full size keyboard. They both have real PCMCIA slots, CF slots, hardware serial ports, and VGA screens. Both of them get approximately 8 hours on a battery, and the z50 is available with a double-capacity battery which honestly, realistically does get 16 hours.
Because of the WinCE codependency problem mentioned above, they're both unable to survive without occasional connection to a desktop for certain tasks. The easy solution is to ditch WinCE and run the hpcmips port of NetBSD, which boots on both of them. With a decent-sized CF card you can have a full development environment and not even need someone to cross-compile for you. That's definitely enough to be self-sufficient.
Full keyboard, harware serial port, and 8 hours on a charge. That's a recipe for "portable serial console" if I ever heard one. Oh yeah, it also happens to be a full-fledged NetBSD machine.
I use a Palm T2 with my GPRS phone via Bluetooth. I check email quite happily on it. Surfing the web is a pain, but for basic use (getting a bit of information) it's usable.
My Journal
Two years ago I went to China for two months. All I brought was a Palm IIIxe with a keyboard for it. I wrote emails back to my family on it and sent them online by synchronizing to my friend's laptop (with infrared).
In your case, you'd want to get a Palm modem so you can be independent of other computers to receive and send emails. And if she's not that much of a typist, maybe she doesn't want the keyboard...
All in all, if you get the 3 components second-hand, you might get it under 250$ I guess? And the older Palms use AAA batteries, so you don't have to remember to recharge. You just have to show her how to quickly replace batteries if she's not to lose all her content!
Although I found this to work quite well in my case, 2 months is not very long. Also, I suspect she'd wanna see her kids' pictures they're gonna send from college... So probably a cheap laptop would be better for her. Since it's for light usage, even a 200 mhz laptop with Win95 would do.
My hardware is a bit different (Sony UX-50), but otherwise, I totally agree with you. The main beef I have is the speed of data transfer over my cell phone.
The advantage, in this case, of the UX over the T2 is really just the very usable built in keyboard on the UX50.
The UX also supports 802.11 for visits to wireless hotspots. That's a big win if you're cell phone provider lets you access their 802.11 hotspots. The extra resolution (320x480 vs T2's 320x320) on the UX might make web browsing a bit nicer, too.
As others have pointed out, the price (around $500 new, cheaper on eBay) of a UX50 is in the range of a cheap laptop. The cheap laptop won't fit in his mom's purse, though.
The new Palm's can be very cheap. It's most impressive.
And I have a foldable keyboard for mine - it sits in my jacket pocket and I used it whenever I'm on a train.
WiFi would be nice tho.
My Journal
I found this article which might be of interest to you.
I used a Palm V, a collapsing keyboard, a lame sprint cell phone and an annoyingly long pda-phone cable as my primary "system" for about nine months back in, um, 1999? 2000? I was traveling a lot, working as a freelance journalist, and it was a perfectly acceptable solution. Except for the smallness of the screen text.
Slow transfer speeds, web pages broken by minimalist small screen browsers, truly limited functionality, even the two bit color--I became accustomed to all of that, along with my slowly worsening eyesight. Small PDA text is really brutal over a long period. Unless you can find a way to expand the screen (even if it just mirrors the cramped pda screen display), using a pda instead of a computer is not a long-term solution if you care about your vision.
Then again, if she really just sends a handful of brief emails a week, and doesn't do anything extensive online, she might be perfectly happy with a hiptop. Despite their proprietary approach, I think they have the most comfortably usable keyboard of any of the small pda-phones I've used.
-- Hyou have a powerbook and your mom can't afford a landline?
If all she wants to do is surf the web and do e-mail, find an old Pismo book. They'll still run OS X just fine - I've spent quite a bit of time on a Pismo powerbook runnin 10.2.3, it wasn't any worse than a newer iBook.) It's plenty fast for surfing the web and all that, and would probably cost about as much as a handheld. Be a lot easier to use, too.
Pismos are 14" screens, right? Bigger than the 12" white iBook, so less portable. Also, for a complete computer newbie, I don't know whether it is worth it to pay $500 for a used computer on Ebay (that might have who knows what problems) versus a new one from a store that provides support, etc. for $300 more. And I can't say I understand what makes a Pismo easier to use than an iBook. But still a good thought.
The write-up said she was ditching her land-line.
Dial-up is a very poor value anyway, if in order to use it, you have to pay for a landline you wouldn't otherwise have a need for..
Cost of land-line after the many US taxes: ~ $20/month
Cost of average dial-up Internet service: ~ $20/month
Total cost: $40
Total utility: Very little, assuming you have no use for the land-line (this includes me). Sluggish speeds.
Cost of cable Internet in most areas: $45/month
Total utility: More, since you aren't wasting half your money on an overpriced landline phone. Better speeds.
I, for one, use VOIP (Packet8) over my cable connection. Great unless Comcast's network is acting up (which means about 1 day out of 4 I can't use it, lately, but they're working on it.)
I think Bastian meant, easier to use than a handheld. That would make more sense, and I'd agree with that. But you are right about the portability.
She doesn't use her PC for anything more than occasional emails and online purchases and her cell phone has pretty much made her landline obsolete. She emails me asking if there is a handheld that could replace these devices. I don't own one, don't need one (my SE616 and Powerbook is plenty), and really never bothered to research one. A quick search for anything decent reveals prices close to, or over, a low end notebook. As for access, unless she searches for open wifi points, I can't imagine mobile service being anymore competitive than a cable/DSL line coming into a house.
I think a notebook is the right choice here, for many many reasons:
Since you yourself use a PowerBook and a Sony-Ericsson cellphone, you should consider getting her a similar but cheaper setup: possibly an iBook with built-in Bluetooth and a CDRW drive. If the iBook has built-in Bluetooth, it will work with many more cellphones and she can probably also use iSync to keep the address book up to date. Also the CDRW lets her (you?) make backups and copy music.
--Bud
T-Mobile (or Verizon, if you go with them) have *absolute control* over what software is on your Sidekick. If you install something they don't like, THEY can remove it without telling you and you have no way of preventing it.
For me, this makes the Sidekick a non-option.
+++ATH0