Do Videogame Skills Transfer To Real Life?

macshune writes "Lately, I've been wanting to try my hand at firearms, just to see if a youth spent playing Duck Hunt and an adolescence playing FPS games has given me a preternatural shooting ability. This got me thinking, do videogame skills, both reaction-based and of other kinds, transfer to real life? My friends that play D&D are good storytellers, but do games like Counter-Strike build teamwork skills? Inquiring minds want to know!"

Comments

Hrmmm....

[consolidatedbord]

Now only if cheat codes transferred to real life!

instrument flying and flight sims

[ceejayoz]

My first time flying, we flew through a cloud layer heading back to the airport. I flew the approach perfectly, only having to ask where certain knobs were on the kind of plane we were flying.

I definitely wouldn't have been able to do that without the hours and hours I spent on MS Flight Simulator (many of which, admittedly, were spent ramming into the Sears Tower in my Cessna :-p).

Re:instrument flying and flight sims

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI - The USAF gives half-time credit for flight sims including PC based ones like MS's. I.e. spend eight hours on a sim and log four hours of whatever craft you were flying.

(Posting AC as I've already moderated in this thread.)

Re:instrument flying and flight sims

[srmalloy]

The staff at places like Air Combat USA have repeatedly admitted that people who play air-combat simulations, particularly against real opponents, do much better in the mock combat they present. One of the things that is the most difficult to learn is SA (Situational Awareness) -- the ability to keep track of where the other plane is relative to yours when both are maneuvering, with the basic ACM (Air Combat Maneuvers) being secondary, and air-combat simulations give the opportunity to learn those skills without the penalties that failure in a real airplane would produce.

Re:instrument flying and flight sims

[Cecil]

Perhaps the USAF has more lenient standards. The FAA, on the other hand, has not licensed MS Flight Sim. 2000, at least, had numerous painfully glaring flaws in its physics model when I tried it. Everything from turbulence to clouds to icing, ground effect, all sorts of things were lacking or poorly implemented. Yes, I am a pilot.

X Plane, on the other hand, is FAA-certified. In fact, its physics model is so extensive that it is able to determine handling characteristics based on aerofoil shapes (and has been used to model such characteristics before). It still isn't quite realistic in every regard, but it's a far sight better than MS Flight Sim.

Fast Reactions...

[tktk]

I've found that I've got faster reaction times than most of my friends. I spent a year working at a daycare, and I could consistently catch babies before they fell and hit their heads.

But this discussion begs the question of whether game players develop fast reactions or whether people with fast reactions play games regularly.

FPS skillz != firearm skills

[PeteyG]

I consider myself a pretty good shot (in CS, Day of Defeat, Quake, etc). However, about a while ago I had the opportunity to fire several clips (or magazines? I forget) with a 9mm pistol in a large group of other first time shooters.

When we got the targets back, and the scores were compared, I was significantly below average. I am quite certain that I was well above the average of that groups FPS skills as well.

On the other hand, my good friend, who was a computer gamer but NOT a very good FPS player, joined the military and quickly earned expert marksman qualifications on both rifles and pistols.

There is absolutely no correlation.

Re:FPS skillz != firearm skills

[gruntled]

I agree that you'll never learn to properly aim a firearm via first person shooter; in fact this is one of my primary arguments against those loons who say Doom and its ilk teach kids how to shoot. No sights = no training.

I have, however, actually taught people to sight using a light gun. The sighting is somewhat less accurate than you'd get with a real weapon (light guns are more charitable), but you can definitely learn the principles of accurate shooting. I hadn't fired a weapon in nearly 20 years, but was impressing the hell out of my future father-in-law three months ago using a heavy frame 22 pistol, something I largely attribute to continued practice with light guns over the years (although the fact that I was on the pistol team in college may have had something to do with it).

Re:FPS skillz != firearm skills

[Alkaiser]

Same here. I'm deadly accurate in light gun games, and with the sniper rifle in Q3 and CS...I've fired 9mm guns, .45s, etc.

If you're shooting not expecting the full pyhsical force of the kick, it totally messes up your aim, moreso than someone who's coming in not expecting anything.

A gamer's going to level his sights, and expect to hit where the crosshairs says he's going to him. The normal guy's going to aim lower like the people teaching them tell them to.

Chess

[NetDanzr]

I found that playing chess on computer has greatly increased my umm... chess playing skills.

Yes they do

[Apreche]

They most definitely do. The problem is they get no respect. For example, only people with exceptional leadership and social skills can become great captains in a game like puzzle pirates. But you can't put that on your resume. You'll only get hired on the rare rare rare chance that the person hiring is a player.

Of course other skills go over as well. Problem solving, hand eye coordination, etc. etc. But in this world nobody will care unless you've done something "real".

Definitely

[neostorm]

I'd say that many skills from gaming definitely transfer to real world scenarios. Things that I have noticed personally are elements of resource management from RTS's applying to efficient living in the real world. Critical thinking and decision making can be taken away from nearly any game, from snap-decisions in FPS games to strategic ones in Strategy.
I'm not so sure about social skills, but efficient team work definitely grows when playing a team game, regardless of the genre.

Something I've noticed before is that it's not so much the subject of the game that is conveyed to our minds, but the mode of thinking that are minds are forced into after hours of play. We begin to think more like machines, efficient decisions, precise moves, cunning strategies, and these roll over into the real world more than raw knowledge (which is something that edutainment hasn't really touched on yet).

I'd have to say that physical actions are something that have very little chance of transferring to the real world, though. Games are nearly an entirely mental experience, and the player is usually quite detached aside from the usual hand-eye coordination. Firing guns and playing sports are entirely different actions on the screen and off.

Re:Definitely

[Harassed]

Things that I have noticed personally are elements of resource management from RTS's applying to efficient living in the real world. Yeah, I've found that too. In fact, I've got the kids out back in the yard collecting food and my wife is chopping up a tree for the wood. Meanwhile I've got the dog digging in the basement for gold and I'm nearly finished building a new wonder on the patio :)

Firearms

[Usquebaugh]

It depends on what type of shooting you're doing.

Twitch as in skeet or practical pistol, will probably be helped by anything that improves reaction time and hand eye co-ordination.

Logic as in 1500yd or three positional will probably not be helped by having a lightning reflex.

The important question of shoot or not shoot is probably fucked up beyond all recognition in those that play FPS.

"Well officer, the victim suddenly popped up from behind a crate so I fired a warning shot through her chest. Better safe than sorry"

I attribute my pilot's license to simulator time

[Quarters]

I solo'd at 12 hrs. I took my flight exam at 42hrs. The averages for both (respectively) are ~18-20 hrs and ~50+hrs (some say 60).

While most PC based sims aren't certified as trainers there is still inherent value in things, like:

*Just shooting landings for a few hours to get the timing and visual cues of things down.

*Planning your cross country and then flying it virtually to make sure you've gotten everthing correct.

*Practicng stalls in a controlled environment

etc... Yes, PC games can give you skills that transfer to real life.

I don't think so

[Angst Badger]

With the caveat that I've spent a lot more time with real firearms than FPS games, my impression is that no, the skill doesn't transfer. Guns in games are much easier to use than real-world guns. The main differences that I can see are:

• It's easier to aim in a game than real life. I suspect this is an intentional feature to make the game more fun to play.
• Guns in most games never jam or misfire.
• Guns in games require no cleaning, repair, or other maintenance.
• Automatic weapons in games never seem to overheat.
• Guns in games reload themselves automatically.
• All the ammo you find lying around in heaps and mounds(!) is in excellent condition and is never booby-trapped.
• Bullets in games don't ricochet, and shooting at brittle objects nearby (concrete walls, for example) never seems to spray you with high-velocity debris, nor does shot bounce around dangerously in enclosed spaces with hard surfaces.
• The player character in most FPS games must have some sort of prosthetic ears, because not even a grenade detonation at close range ever seems to cause either temporary or permanent hearing loss.
• Guns in games have no appreciable recoil.

...and so on. As for developing teamwork, you may have a point, but that probably applies to any team sport. Evidently, the Army seems to think that multiplayer FPS games might be good tactical training, and perhaps it is, but the Army makes soldiers get lots and lots practice with real guns.

Re:I don't think so

[Grym]

Bullets in games don't ricochet, and shooting at brittle objects nearby (concrete walls, for example) never seems to spray you with high-velocity debris, nor does shot bounce around dangerously in enclosed spaces with hard surfaces.

I had the opportunity over the summer to talk with a solider in the U.S. Special Forces, and, being a paintball player I asked him some questions regarding actual combat.

What surprised me the most was when I asked him how they handle people at the ends of long hallways. I know from paintball and FPS games that this can be one of the most frustrating situations.

He told me that what they do is "skip" bullets off the walls so they don't actually have to come around a corner to shoot the other soldiers. I immediately asked him "So, real bullets will bounce off regular walls if you shoot at a shallow enough angle?" His response? "You're daaamnn right they do...", with a smile.

That's an idea that I found very interesting because I've never seen an FPS game that tries to mimic this, and it's not really applicable in paintball where the balls have to be soft. I really hope that some games/mods in the future try to model this kind of stuff because it would definitely have an impact on the tactics and realism of the games.

-Grym

Yes, definitely. "Driver" helped save my life.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm fairly certain that the game "Driver" on the (Playstation 1) saved my life - or at least my car.

When you're cruising around the city, Driver is fairly similar to Grand Theft Auto - with the notable exception that the traffic behaves realistically and tries to obeys all the rules of driving - including stopping at intersections for lights. The result is that if you drive up some streets at the wrong time, you get a *lot* of heavy cross-traffic.

At first, when I was driving like crazy and encountered a car in the intersection, I would often swerve the wrong way. If it appeared from the left, I'd swerve to the right. Of course, because we were both moving, I'd T-bone the car almost perfectly. Eventually I learned to judge the speed of the cars and swerve towards the rear of them if their speed was sufficient compared to mine - because I'd have a much greater chance of passing behind them.

Then, one night in real life, as I was driving home on the highway - an elk ran across the road. There was a car in the left lane in front that had just overtaken me, blocking my view of the left lane. The first I saw of the elk was when it entered my lane just in front of that car - it was moving very fast from left to right across my field of vision - several car lengths in front of me.

My instinct was to swerve to the right, but I didn't. I knew that if I did that - and based on the speed that it was moving - I would hit the elk straight on. I swerved left... car submarined to the right, tires loaded up, started squealing... my right wing mirror practically touched the beastie on the backside as I narrowly avoided it... and I straightened the car back up again without going very far out of my lane.

If I'd done nothing, I would have hit the elk on the passenger side of my car. If I'd swerved right (what I know I would have done pre-"Driver"), I would have hit it dead-center at 65mph, a 600lb fully-grown male elk would have come through the windshield of my bottom-of-the range subcompact car - and I'd probably have been made dead. I still think that luck had a little play, but the game "Driver" definitely taught me the reactions that I needed to have in that specific circumstance.

Reloading

[Tetrad_of_doom]

Many modern gun games at the arcade require you to shoot off screen to reload.

I'd hate to be the guy standing next to the Time Crisis pro at the real shooting gallery. I might just get shot it the head when he thinks his clip is empty.

cognitive skill will transfer, but not motor skill

[directrealist]

americas army uses thier video game for exactly this purpose. it is a research tool to investigate if squad based virtual combat will make a soldier that accels "better" in a number of different catatgories. They are not really interested in whether motor skills can transfer. they know they dont and have plenty of research that supports this. the ability of motor skills to generalze to novel situations is well known and somewhat easily predicted. if the simmilarits of the game are close enough to the real thing then the skill will transfer. the question of what is close enough is a minute detail question. common sense can do wonders here, too much theory can muck it up. riding a virtual bike with a joystick is not a skill that will transfer to being able to balance on a bike. but chosing a good route through an envoronment will. the lattter is a more cognitive task the depends on being able to execute the more motoric task of riding a bike. I know studies have shown that general reaction time to targets is improved with fps videogame use but actual transfer of skill such as shooting (aiming at targets) from fps games to actual targets has not held up under scrutiny. you may have a better awareness of targets in a visual field but you will be no more able to shoot them than the average joe. cognitive skills transfer more readily to novel situations than do motor skills. Most of what will transfer from a video game will be cognitive unless the new task involves using a joystick or keyboard/mouse in a simmilar way.

Bravo

[vga_init]

After reading the question, I was prepared to write a response that was very similar. So similar, in fact, that you've pretty much summed up everything that I would have said.

Reading through the many responses, it is obvious that the vast majority of posters are seriously preoccupied with guns. While many games have guns in them, many do not, and, setting all that aside, this is hardly important at all.

What many people fail to realize is that what people really gain from playing games is much more abstract. The things you learn to do don't really have anything to do with actual firearms (or cars, or anything else mentioned). As you have put it, they teach modes of behaivor and ways of thinking.

There are other benefits that deal with general knowledge; that is, you can learned raw facts from a game, but usually this is not the case.

People are trying to simplify too much

[AvantLegion]

As often happens here, people are trying to apply simple answers to what may appear to be a simple question. But it's really not. People can say "yes" and "no" and both be partially right, because there isn't an iron-clad, applies-in-every-situation answer.

Humans can learn from many things. We learn from text descriptions of things, as well as abstract diagrams or photographs. We can also learn from interactive simulations - depending on how much they deviate from what they simulate. Obviously, learning from simulations (like flight sims) has been much discussed elsewhere, with a lot of anecdotal data to suggest that it helps greatly (and the military's own anecdotes and interest in sims should help make the point - not just flight sims, but things like the game that will be released publically as Full Spectrum Warrior soon).

That accounts for learning of mental skills, but there's also the physical ("twitch") factor. Of course, people here are often failing to apply sound logic. Being good at a FPS doesn't necessarily mean that you'll be good at firing a real firearm. That said, one could argue that the same person might have been even worse at firing the real firearm without the FPS skills. The question isn't if one makes you automatically good at the other. The question is if one helps with the other. But people are answering the question as if it were the former.

The original question asks specifically about teamwork skills. Interpersonal skills are, in my view, totally separate from mental or physical skills. I would argue that, yes, playing cooperative games would help build your cooperation skills more than not playing coop games. Interpersonal communication is a very dynamic thing, and does not exist in a vacuum - working with people in CounterStrike is not somehow a totally different human skill than other kinds of cooperation.

This could be a very good discussion, but there's been too little insight so far. This post here wasn't all that great either, but hopefully it will spark some true insight. :)

My Experiences

[Jorkapp]

I've had my fair share of experiences with Game Skills Real Skills. Here's probably the best 2 (and recent) examples I can provide.

2 Months after joining the Royal Canadian Air Cadets, and a nice safety course later, I was finally cleared to use the rifle range. I had about 2.5 years skill with FPS games, and 0.0 seconds skill shooting a rifle.

My FPS skills did not transfer over. None whatsoever. An FPS teaches you to move a mouse and press buttons on a keyboard. Shooting a rifle requires actual movement. You actually have to squeeze the trigger (not pull it), adjust the sights, reload, and aim. In a FPS, you click the mouse. Big difference.

After 4 months of Practice, I have earned Marksman 1st class qualification. Basically, 20 shots at a range of 10m (32.8ft) were inside a 2.5cm (1 in - about the size of a quarter) diameter grouping. Not an easy task.

As for flying, I had no experience. Zero. No Flight Sim skills, no real life skills, hell, I hadn't even been more than 30m above ground. After months of Ground School and passing the exam (barely, with a 50%), it was time for a flight.

About a week after the flight, my flight instructor burned me a copy of MS Flight Sim 2000. Everything I learned in real life transfered over. Controlling the Eleveators, Ailerons, Flaps, Throttle, Rudder, and other Aircraft controls is a breeze, thanks to the months spent learning how to do it properly.

I suppose to conclude, some skills do, and some skills dont. You have to look at the complexity of the task in real life vs the complexity of the task in the virtual world. Shooting is complex in real life, but overly simple in virtual reality. No transfer. Flying is difficult in real life, and flying is difficult in virtual reality, so there are some transferable skills.

Real life example?

[MachDelta]

"Gimmy your lunch money, four-eyes!"
"Uh, hang on a sec. Got a pen?"
"What? What you yappin about, nerd?"
"Nevermind, found one."
"C'mon poindexter, fork it over!"
"One second..."
"What you writing down there?"
"Hang on, hang on! I... D... D... umm... Q..."

Checkers on the other hand...

[FatalTourist]

A friend and I decided to play some real world checkers. Everything was going fine until he jumped one of my pieces. The damned thing didn't move!
We stared at it for 15 minutes, waiting for it to disappear or leap off the board. Nothing. Finally we managed to prod it off with a stick.
Never will I trust a computer game again.