On The X68000's Obscure Majesty

Thanks to NFG for its newly published in-depth feature on the Japanese X68000 computer/games system. The author explains: "The X68000 is an unheard-of gem from Japan. Released around the same time as the Amiga and Atari ST, it was leagues ahead of them both in terms of design and capability. Originally released in 1987 with a 10MHz 68000 CPU and 1MB RAM, the series finished six years later with a 25MHz 68030, 4MB RAM and a 80MB HD." The piece ends with a gallery of X68000 game screenshots, often near-perfect arcade conversions, as well as referencing the previously mentioned X68000 floppy disc game warnings.

Comments

Y'all feelin me?

[Anonymous Coward]

Growing up just north of san fran there was always some lucky kid in the neighborhood who had one of these fancy import devices. I'd salivate over its spot-on arcade ports........and he'd never let me play it.

bastard.

Mirror is available

[ljaguar]

x68000

It's uploading as i am posting this. So it won't be up for a while. I'm off to sleep.

Re:Mirror is available

[notanatheist]

No need to worry about a mirror unless it hits front page. Though I don't know why it didn't. Had someone looked at those classic pics (especially page 2) then it would've been /.'ed in no time. :-)

Re:Mirror is available

[NEOGEOman]

I've made the mainpage before, and my puny little home server coped with huge load without problems. All hail fiber to the home (yay Japan!) and Abyss webserver. =)

Re:Mirror is available

[ljaguar]

My slashdot setting has every story on the front page... so I never know which is frontpage and which isn't.

wasnt MG originaly on that thing?

[cyrax777]

IRC the Original Metal Gear was on this thing then ported to nintendo. yeah its its what im thinking of. http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/nes/data/7936.html

Re:wasnt MG originaly on that thing?

[ag0ny]

The original Metal Gear was an MSX2 cartridge released in 1987, so the NES and MSX2 versions were released (more or less) at the same time.

Konami at the time had lots of developers working on MSX, so I guess it would be a safe assumption to say that the MSX version was the main one, which was then ported to the NES. There's even an MSX computer in Metal Gear Solid 2: In the tanker sequence, in the room where Metal Gear is, there's a computer terminal that you must use to upload some photos. This terminal displays "MSX 5.0" or something like that when used (it was long time ago since I played that game, sorry).

Also, if I recall correctly, the "MSX Metal Gear team" is greeted in the ending titles at the end of the game.

Re:wasnt MG originaly on that thing?

[HoneyBunchesOfGoats]

Seems like a lot of NES games were also on that system... Lots of shots of Castlevania on the screenshots page, as well as one that's unmistakeably River City Ransom. Also some shots of Image Fight; compare this to the crappy NES version that I played as a kid.

Gallery Page two has 1 NSFW pic

[Kris_J]

Just a quick heads up.

Re:Gallery Page two has 1 NSFW pic

[B1LL_GAT3Z]

...and traffic to the site immediately quadruples.

"leagues ahead" ???

[udif]

Released around the same time as the Amiga and Atari ST, it was leagues ahead of them both in terms of design and capability. Originally released in 1987 with a 10MHz 68000 CPU and 1MB RAM, the series finished six years later with a 25MHz 68030, 4MB RAM and a 80MB HD.

Considering the fact that the Amiga was released in August 1985 with a 8MHz 68000, I find it hard to claim that a 10MHz 68000 machine released in 1987 is "leagues ahead". Also knowing the Amiga custom chips and its OS, I also find it hard to assume the X68000 was "miles ahead". Ofcourse the last Amiga modek had a 68040 chip vs. the claimed 68030 for the X68000.

Re:"leagues ahead" ???

[PD]

The magic of both the Atari and the Amiga wasn't their CPU power. The 68000 at 8 Mhz was roughly as fast as the 80286 chip, which had been used in the IBM AT and clones since before the Atari and Amiga were released.

What made these machines special was the hardware support for accelerated graphics and better sound. I am not an Amiga expert, but I had an Atari ST. The thing had some very decent sound hardware in it. It also had MIDI ports which made it very useful for controlling more advanced instruments. These were built-in to every ST made. The graphics were better than the IBM EGA graphics, and there was a blitter chip which accelerated the process of moving blocks of memory around. Since the screen was relocatable to any address in the system, the chip worked on all the memory. That blitter could be used to move memory that wasn't currently on the display at the time.

The Amiga also had its magical hardware which I'm sure someone else can explain in detail.

This X68000 appears to have had some advanced features too, which in some ways was more advanced than earlier machines. The disk interface was SCSI, capability to run 4 floppy drives, 1024x1024 screen resolution, hardware scrolling, hardware sprites, advanced sound, and a socket for a math coprocessor.

Re:"leagues ahead" ???

[szyzyg]

Actually the Amiga CPU ran at 7.2 MHz - it was the Atari ST which ran it's CPU at 8 MHz. Amiga custom hardware helped for a lot of things especially sprite based games. But the atari with only 4 bit planes to handle and a 10% faster cpu typically produced slightly better 3D games.

At least that's what I'd tell all my amiga owning friends in the days before I purchased a load of Midi driven gear to take advantage of the one real bonus that the ST offered.

Re:"leagues ahead" ???

[udif]

You are right. It was 7.18MHz to be exact, and was derived from the 3.59MHz NTSC frequency.
The Amiga had about 20 different DMA channels, and as far as I remember, all of them were coordinated based on the horizontal video beam position, since access to the "chip" memory had to be shared by both the CPU and all the custom chips.

BTW, the PAL models had a slightly different frequency, but I don't remember if it was faster or slower.

Re:"leagues ahead" ???

[NEOGEOman]

FWIW the ST also excelled in WYSIWYG desktop publishing as well, with vector-based fonts and drawing apps that are still unequalled (in my budget-driven experience at least) on the PC. Calamus, Avant Vektor, Didot, DA's Vector, Retouche Pro... Some seriously stellar software, especially when coupled with the Atari laserprinters, or connected to a Linotronic...

Re:"leagues ahead" ???

[Malor]

It was actually 7.14Mhz. I assume that NTSC is therefore 3.57Mhz.

Re:"leagues ahead" ???

[Malor]

I sold Amigas from 1987-1989, and our store sold both kinds... I would often send people over to the ST side of the store, depending on their needs. That said, I didn't like the ST very much; I KNEW the Amiga was a lot better, and it really annoyed me when ST people would insist their obviously inferior machine was the best. :-)

The ST was actually a very simple machine, in comparison to the Amiga. It was designed and assembled very quickly, and IMO, it showed. That simplicity gave the ST a big advantage early in its life, as NOBODY understood what the heck to do with a multitasking operating system at the time. (and the fact that the early AmigaOSes were pretty unstable didn't help much either :)).

The ST's two main areas of advantage were MIDI and desktop publishing. DTP was a really big new idea at the time... being able to lay out a page, graphically, and then print out what you could see and have it look the same but be in high resolution (not just screen resolution) was a BIG DEAL. They actually coined the WYSIWYG acronym at the time... "what you see is what you get". This is kind of funny to me now, why WOULDN'T you get what you see? But at the time, it was a big step forward. Anytime someone asked me about DTP, I pointed them at an ST. The ST had a very nice monochrome, high-resolution screen... it was nicer than a Mac for a LOT less money, and there were emulators that let you run most Mac software.

It also had a built-in MIDI controller, so for a long time I pushed musicians toward the ST also. I think there may still be some STs in production use for MIDI. And of course, the first true multiplayer games in the home were on the ST ... Midi Maze was HUGELY popular at our company parties. You could hook up to 16 STs together by daisy-chaining them with MIDI cables. Midi Maze was a very simple game, but a very addicting taste of what multiplayer Quake would someday be like.

The sound was weak, though. I don't remember the details, but I think it was just a slightly-enhanced version of C64 sound. And the graphics were very simple; you had 320x200 in either 16 or 32 colors, 640x200 in 4 colors, or 640x400 in monochrome, and that was IT. Nothing else. The main CPU had to do all the work, there wasn't much of anything hidden away to take advantage of. This simplicity made it easy to program initially, but it meant the system didn't have much headroom.

The Amiga, on the other hand, was probably the single largest advance ever taken by 'home' computers. The Mac's big deal was a GUI, which was important... but the Amiga offered 4096 colors, a sprite engine, video processing (with overscan capabilities), the ability to have several separate screens at different resolution and color depth showing on the same monitor at the same time, incredible graphic flexibility (anything from 320x200x1 color up to about 680x450x4096 with smoke coming out of the video chip :) ) four-channel stereo sound, multitasking, and VAST expandability, all at once. It was actually the logical offshoot of the Atari 8-bit processors. It was kind of amusing -- the Commodore Amiga was the grown-up Atari 8-bit, and the Atari ST was the grown-up Commodore 64.

The Amiga was SO advanced, in fact, that nobody really knew what the heck to do with it for probably the first whole year... everyone was lost in the complexity, and of course, the 1.0 version of the operating system was really weak and crash-prone. But after that first year, things just kept improving and improving. Without a doubt, it was absolutely the most capable computer you could buy in overall terms for a number of years.

If Commodore had had a bloody clue, and had treated their genius tech staff with the respect and awe they deserved, there would probably still be Amigas being made today (I mean, for real, not just a fringe offshoot), and if Apple had owned this technology, they would probably be where Microsoft is today. It was that s

Re:"leagues ahead" ???

[NEOGEOman]

It's a conversation very much akin to arguing about the angels on the head of a pin, since I've never used an Amiga and you've never used an X68. Talking to the less fervent of the amiga fans I know, who've used the X68 emulated and the amiga, they say there's definitely some differences between the two machines.

While it's true the Amiga GUI was amazing (and the screenshots I've seen of customized desktops make me weep) I think it can be agreed for the modern user of these machines the OS and GUI often takes a backseat to the rapid-fire and instant-joy use: Games.

Comparing screenshots of games that were released for both there's simply no comparison. I've tried as many games as I can find for the Amiga (emulated) and it's really, gamewise, an uprated MegaDrive. More colours, better sound, better animation, but the Amiga to X68k seems to be the ST to the Amiga.

I heartily recommend you try the emulator, EX68 and then load a few disk images. It's easy, and the X68k hardware was nicely unified so there's none of the incessant tweaking and fiddling to get software to run like you have to endure with the Amiga emus.

You've seen my gallery for the X68, I defy you to find me screenshots that look as good as the X68k best. Dig 'em up, send 'em my way. Let's see how it goes. =)

That said, the price of the X68k upon release kinda means that it SHOULD have kicked ass. USD $3762 in 1991 dollars, based on the exchange rates at the time.

Ah, finally found a screenshot of Amiga Final Fight:
Amiga
X68k

Clarification on original MG

[ReyTFox]

The MSX version is in fact totally different from the NES one in level design, though the gameplay is basically identical, right down to the pixel-level. This is evident from the very beginning, where you start with an underwater entrance rather than the paradrop of the NES version.

I don't know what happened there, but the MSX one is definitely the original, as are Castlevania and Dragon Quest 1.

Re:wasnt MG originaly on that thing? (OT: MSX)

[noodler]

i own the original metal gear :) (it's for msx2 in fact, not msx)

it feaured way better graphics than the nes version (16 colours out of a pallette of 512) ;)

anyway, Konami was realy active on the MSX systems, as were most japanese game developers at that time.
as mentioned we had Castlevania but also some original RPG material like SD Snatcher.,
And of course we had the one and only Solid Snake (Metal Gear 2) :)
for a list of konami's history on msx see:
http://www.msxnet.org/konami/konami.txt

Best. Game. Name. EVAR.

[Bagels]

"Mr. DO! Vs. Unicorns" - I think this one speaks for itself.

On a slightly more serious note, the game from Konami - is that something from the Castlevania series? None of the screenshots show the trademark whip, but they've certainly got the right atmosphere for it.

Re:Best. Game. Name. EVAR.

[revolvement]

Yes, it was a Castlevania game. They re-released it on the PSOne, along with a "remixed" version of it

Re:Best. Game. Name. EVAR.

[Firehawke]

Adding to the other reply, the PSX re-release is "Castlevania Chronicles"-- it's a halfstep between Castlevania 1 and Castlevania 4 in that it's yet another reworking of the original story and it has SOME of the CV4 features (graphics quality, audio quality, ability to whip downwards from a jump).

It's also incredibly difficult in the later stages. It's definitely worth picking up if you're a fan of the series. Oh, and as a purist, I can say it's an accurate representation of the original if you're in Original mode.

Re:Best. Game. Name. EVAR.

[devnull17]

Sure is. The title screen (first page, third row, third from left) reads "akumajou dorakyura", or "Demon Castle Dracula." The "Castievania" moniker wasn't used on any of the Japanese games in the series until very recently. (With the more recent GBA releases, IIRC.)

How much blacker could the image be?

[Dr. Smeegee]

And the answer is none: None more black.

I have scoured the links and can find no actual clear images of this supposedly beautiful hardware.

Anyone know of a nice shot of one of these devices?

Re:How much blacker could the image be?

[gklinger]

Rather than making a snarky post calling you a lazy bastard who should search Google (oops, I guess I did just make a snarky post) I will provide you with what you seek. Here are some decent images.

I've worked with the X68000 and they are/were very cool and quite advanced for their time. Trying to compare different platforms is ultimately pointless so I won't say it was more advanced than the Amiga or Atari ST but it certainly was a peer and shouldn't be overlooked.

Running Unix on the X68000

[hubertf]

Of course there's a port of NetBSD to the X68000 platform.

NetBSD/x68k is the port of NetBSD for the Japanese personal computer SHARP X68000/X68030 series. It runs on some models of X680x0 with MMU and FPU. NetBSD is a free, secure, and highly portable UNIX/Linux-like Open Source operating system available for many platforms, from 64-bit AlphaServers and desktop systems to handheld and embedded devices. Its clean design and advanced features make it excellent in both production and research environments, and it is user-supported with complete source. Many applications are easily available through The NetBSD Packages Collection.

Gallery Contents

[cgenman]

Where's the development picture of Duke Nukem Forever?

Re:WTF?

[NEOGEOman]

The first two pics are from the arcade and X68, the last one (of the same image, more or less) is the Genesis version. No offense, but it doesn't take a fanboy to tell them apart - it takes only EYES. =)

Re:Interesting...

[NEOGEOman]

As a long time ST user I can say without question this machine is WAY more powerful. The custom graphics chips in the X68000 kicked the ST's ass, and though the Amiga was unquestionably the ST's superior the X68k 0wnz them both.

Also, if you read the whole page, it had a DOS-clone OS in addition to a GUI OS/shell (not clear on which it was). It was wholely different from any other GUI, and I think it must be said it kinda sucked, though I've never seen SX Windows 3.0. I've seen screenshots of some apps for it, so I know it COULD display more than 4 colours, but the stock GUI used only that many. Really horrible, primitive icons, in addition to a strange race-care motif.

Basically, as we all know, the specs are nice but they don't mean squat. It's all about the games, and the X68000 games were amazing. Try one, you'll like it.

Oh that was great ....

[CFTM]

So here I am sitting here wasting time at work, assuming that I can go check out the screen shots of the game without coming across anything that might be considered "inappropriate" at work. So I click the link, wahoo Websense didn't block me for once! Going through the screen shots, reminiscing about old arcade games and I click page two ... next thing I know there is a pixalated naked chick on my screen ... god damn japanese games :P