RFID Coming 'Whether You Like It Or Not'

VTBassMatt writes "According to an interview with Scott McGregor of Philips Semiconductor in BusinessWeek, RFID tags are coming whether we like it or not but of course won't affect our privacy. Choice quotes from the article include such gems as, '[P]rivacy concerns around RFID tags are a little like concerns about supermarket scanners years ago. When the laser scanners were coming out, everybody was saying, retailers are going to collect information about what you buy. And none of that happened.' Is that why I have two loyalty cards on my keyring and three more in my wallet?"

Comments

RFID in the UK

[FalconZero]

RFID may be coming, but its not exactly bursting out at least in the UK.
I investigated RFID for implementation within my company, but came up with
next to no suppliers, apart from one company who after several phone calls
'forgot' about the samples and paperwork they were meant to send. And I simply don't have the
time to implement from electronics up.

IMHO if someone wants to make some money on this, set up a company now, as no-one
else seems to have their act together with customer relations or advertising (yet).

I actually *wanted* to implement this, so imagine the chance someone who's indifferent,
or uninterested in this technology has of being persuaded to implement it in industry.

loyalty cards

[2MuchC0ffeeMan]

in the supermarkets around here, supermarkets require you to have the 'loytalty' card in order to write a check, for their own protection.

friends of mine work there, and they track *everything* you buy, with the card.

My own solution? 'could you use the store card? i'm not writing a check, but i want the things on sale' ... i've also approved it with the managers.

it's too bad i can't play that on screen slot machine game to win the magic token though.

Re:loyalty cards

[StateOfTheUnion]

My friends and I swap loyalty cards regularly. This is especially EZ at shops where you can punch in a phone number or other info if you forget the card (no need to have the physical card).

Also, if there is no associated discount I don't use the card unless I am buying something particularly weird and out of the ordinary.

Perhaps it makes no real difference, but in some small corner of my mind I feel like I'm sticking it to the man. . .

Re:loyalty cards

[cluckshot]

Well it will sooner or later come around that your buying records will become a public Police Record (As with the books you buy under the patriot act). Then they will pattern your buying as a "Terrorist" if you are not cooperating with the latest dictum. Or they will monitor you for diet and restrict your health benefits if you...(Whatever is the latest violation) I guess I had better get my "Tin Foil Hat" because somebody is likely to think I am crazy to say this.

The problem here is that RFID will get spoofed and tricked and counterfitted. It just looks like the most likely to get faked because of the lack of "Human" counter checking. Bar Codes can be faked easily with the scanners now, but the fact that there is a person looking over the goods and checking to see if the code made sense keeps this sort of fraud down. RFID has as its objective the end of the Human cross check.

Once faked, well you might just be a "Terrorist" by their data scan but the facts might just alter that a bit.

Re:loyalty cards

[H1r0Pr0tag0n1st]

Here in Arizona Albertson's was the only chain that did not have loyalty cards and so I did my shopping there.
They recently added them, and while I am not too happy about it, they did one good thing and added a check box at the bottom that says "I will not share info with you, but give me a card anyway"
They will be keeping my business for that.

Re:loyalty cards

[72beetle]

Well it will sooner or later come around that your buying records will become a public Police Record (As with the books you buy under the patriot act).

Already been done - I don't have the time to track down examples, but you can google them up if you're really interested. A grocery chain, Safeway, I think, used a guy's purchasing history based on his loyalty card to defend themselves against a personal injury claim when he slipped on a wet floor in the store. They claimed since he regularly bought beer and wine with the card, that he was a drunkard and didn't fall down because of their wet floors - it was his alcoholic equilibrium at fault. Dunno how it turned out, but it made it into court.

-72

They are watching

[Analogy Man]

At my grocery store they spit out coupons based on what you buy and hand that to you in addition to your receipt. I know they track because the coupons from one trip correspond to previous trips. For example if I buy baby formula I get diaper coupons. On another trip for milk and eggs I get another round of diaper coupons while the little old lady gets coupons for Depends.

Loyalty cards are your choice

[enosys]

Loyalty cards are your choice, and you can still buy stuff without them. I don't see how that relates to RFID.

Supermarket loyalty cards

[whoda]

Most wil activate them without any paperwork.
If not then...

Fill them out like this:

123 Main St
Anytown, AK
12345

(800)-555-3825

RFID tags are a little different.

I'll take them on

[Doesn't_Comment_Code]

I've always said I don't mind RFID tags as long as there are no laws mandating them.

I would probably choose to buy the product without a tag. And when I buy products that have them, I remove them.

But what concerns me is a law (and I could see this happening) that forbids anyone to remove RFID tags. That would scare the crap out of me. But up until that point, I'll handle the tags myself.

Re:Papers please?

[carpe_noctem]

Yep, you sure can.... you don't need the card at all. It's just rather nice, imo.

And you know what, I don't care at all if they track my purchases. This is because:

- I get coupons for items I frequently buy
- I didn't have to give out my name or address to get the card, so it's anonymous data
- The data from my purchases helps them run their store better, so everyone's happy

Vote against this with your dollar.

[dada21]

As a small retailer who owns two stores (Music related and Aggressive Sports related), I am very open about being anti-RFID within the products I carry. Should a supplier offer RFID within the POP/POS merchandising structure, I'll refuse it.

As such, I've cut back as much as I can from the Targets and Wal*Marts and other large chains, instead attempting to find smaller "Ma and Pa" shops that offer similiar merchandise. In today's market, you'd think these stores are hard to find, but I've actually found the opposite.

I've been able to buy vacuum cleaners cheaper than at the mass goods stores, TVs and DVD players as well. Found razor blades and shampoo and other items at stores that won't desire RFID or other tracking mechanisms, and I found them cheaper than I would have purchased them from the large chain stores or grocery stores.

Look around your community and find retailers who have no reason to jump on the RFID bandwagon. Do you use your "Preferred Shopper" card? You're already giving up your privacy. Do you buy online? You're already giving up your privacy. Do you give your phone number to a store when they ask for it when closing a sale? Bye bye privacy.

If you want more privacy, shop where stores provide it. Don't use your credit cards or write a check (the information can get deposited into a database), pay cash. Don't get "zero percent financing for 2 years" because you'll end up having those purchases tracked by who knows how many marketing firms.

Your choice for privacy is up to you. If you care about it, the power to keep your information away from prying eyes is readily available in even the smallest towns.

FRID = Invasion of Privacy

[parvenu74]

When the laser scanners were coming out, everybody was saying, retailers are going to collect information about what you buy. And none of that happened.'

Excuse me? What do you think "Club cards" are, and why do you think there is a discount associated with it? All the info about what you buy is aggregated to create shopping profiles in order to suck more $$$ out of you in the form of targeted advertising and "sharing your info with our business partners."

RFID is everything that the barcode scanners are in terms of information collection, and A WHOLE LOT MORE! Consider: you go to your local supermarket and buy a six pack or two and walk out the front door, RFIDs and all. If an hour later you leave the parking lot but the six pack with the RFID doesn't, what's the logical conclusion, and how long will it be before all of the bored busy-body housewives of the world DEMAND that law enforcement be notified of such a scenario just in case someone might be drinking and then driving???

After all, it's for the safety of the children...

There is / was such a thing in the UK.

[Channard]

I've lost the URL unfortunately but one site had a project of sorts where someone had signed up for a card and then scanned the numbers/barcode in. People then printed the barcode out, taped it over their clubcard and made purchases all over the UK on one card, making it quite a puzzle for Tesco. Alas, that wouldn't work with RFID, but I'd imagine actually posting RFID tags from one end of the country to the other could provide some amusment/ store confusion.

The supermarket card is a good example...

[GreenCrackBaby]

The supermarket card is the perfect example of what can happen with RFID gone bad. Obviously, supermarket cards collect individual buying habits of customers. This really isn't in dispute or something to hide. The scary part is what can be done with that data that goes well beyond just marketing information.

There have already been two cases (that I'm aware of) in which data collected by supermarket cards has been used in court. The first was a case where the info was used to show that a man had a habit of buying very expensive wines, and was successfully used to argue that he could therefore afford more in allimony than he was initially supposed to pay. The second case involves a man suing the grocery store for slipping while shopping. The store attempted to use the man's buying history to show that he was likely an alcoholic.

Scared yet?

How about RFIDs? How can they be miss-used? Well, just look at EZPass, the toll-booth system that uses RFIDs to automatically charge motorists. That info, in the state of IL, has been supoenaed 11 times already. In one case to prove infidelity in a divorce case.

Now imagine how many places will use RFIDs. Every store. Public places. EVERYWHERE. Compile and cross-reference this data and you can assemble a complete picture of a person.

This is not "tin foil hat" material. It IS happening and it WILL continue if you don't do something.

It's not just loyalty cards they track

[SoCalChris]

I always shop at the Albertson's by my home, which up until recently didn't have a loyalty card. I never pay cash though, I always use my ATM card.

About a month after having our second child, the coupon printer at the checkout started printing coupons for baby formula, no matter what I bought.

Their system knew who I am based off of my ATM card, and knew that I had a new baby. It kept printing the formula coupons to keep me coming there.

Do I mind it? Hell no. The coupons I was constantly getting (And still getting occasionally) are worth about $10 each, and I was getting one no matter how little I spent at the store. There were several times I ran in for something small, and ended up with a buy one get one free coupon for formula worth 2-3x the amount of my purchase.

In the last few months, I've gotten $200-$300 worth of formula coupons, so to me it is worth them tracking what I buy at the grocery store.

A better idea - turn up the heat on management

[JonTurner]

>>stores only use the addresses on file to send snail-mail spam. The solution? Use a fake name and address.

A good idea, but you can do better than that, give them the name of the President/CEO/CFO/CIO of the supermarket chain!! Let the company bigshots that make these stupid policies get hardcopy spammed and see how they like it.

So how do you find VIP names? Go to the corporate section of the company web page, look for investor information (if a publicly traded company) or "history" or such if a private company. Get a list of names of the officers and put that together with information about where the company is based. Jump over to the internet phone book with that information and you're all set. If you can't get a home address, just enter the corporate office address.

How 'bout a couple links to get you started? Kroger: http://www.kroger.com/financialinfo_reportsandstat ements.htm
Food Lion: http://www.delhaizegroup.com/en/in_ar2002.asp

Mandatory RFID Wristbands at SXSW Music Festival

[PhotonSphere]

I was in Austin last week for the second largest music festival in the US, South by Southwest (sxsw). RFID tags were embedded in the wrist bands that fesitval goers had to wear for the duration of the multi-day event. Most venues I went to scanned these (checking for counterfeit wristbands) using equipment that has the ability to store the info on the RFID tag to upload into a database. With plans to link personal information such as birthdate (for 21+ verification to purchase alcohol at events) and the ability to add money and use the wristband as a sxsw debit card, I see many privacy issues on the horizon for future sxsw goers. Approximately 7,000

Analogies suck

[Jahf]

I use 'em all the time, but that doesn't make analogies any more accurate.

Comparing RFID to bar codes is close in that that is what most retailers want them for.

However, that doesn't change the fact that bar codes DO NOT TRANSMIT and CAN NOT BE SEEN unless you put them in plain site.

It's like the difference in security between an ethernet cable and an open WiFi signal. Same -intended- purpose, but one is far more prone to abuse.

Re:it is true

[Kaa]

Imagine being able to just push your cart through a metal detector & have everything scanned in seconds.

Imagine having a small piece of electronics that works on two AA batteries and burns out all RFIDs within a, say, one foot radius. Shouldn't be hard to make, really.

Now imagine running a store. Are you sure you want to charge your customers only for items with intact RFIDs?