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U.S. Students Shun Computer Science, Engineering
n9fzx writes "The San Jose Mercury News reports on a study by the Computing Research Association which finds that 'Undergraduates in U.S. universities are starting to abandon their studies in computer technology and engineering amid widespread worries about the accelerating pace of offshoring by high-technology employers.' Enrollment in those fields has dropped by 19% in the past year alone." Update: 03/24 23:40 GMT by CN : jlechem wrote in with a related story: "Wired News has a story about how American companies are outsourcing not because of cheap labor but because of the American school system not being up to snuff. In a report by the AeA, they contend that American schools don't teach enough math and science anymore."
It took me 6 months to find my first job in programming, and I got that one through networking. I'd spend my next few years making friends in high places and doing internships if I were you. Sending out 1000 resumes doesn't mean shit. Good luck.
More than enough BS
Not all engineering is suffering, but the computer and EE areas certainly are. Civil, chemical, biomedical, mechanical engineerings are strong and growing.
I've talked to a number of executives of engineering firms and they indicate that offshoring is not really a major trend. Yes, it is impacting some areas very heavily such as support, but for programmers and engineers, it's a rather minor situation, and the good engineering/programming jobs are likely to always remain local to the company.
The weak job situation for most programmers is not due to offshoring, but rather to simply a lack of jobs, and the fact that the peak of students entering computer majors was around 1999/2000, so they are graduating in highest numbers right now - there's simply more demand than supply. The Merc and other publications are hollaring 'offshore' at the top of their lungs, and unfortunately some people can only hear what they hear the loudest.
The economy of the US churns out fewer jobs PER MONTH than the estimated population growth.
The census estimates indicate an estimated total growth of about 26,000,000 people between 2000 and 2010, which (assuming a linear progression, which might actually be reasonable seeing that our primary driving force behind population growth is immigration these days) amounts to 223,000 new persons per month. Per the Bureau of Labor Statistics there were net 21,000 jobs added to reported payroll in Feb. (latest statistics) which is seen by most as a "recovering" figure compared to, oh, the previous eight to eighteen months.
Not to mention that changes in those reporting rules now mean that a "McDonalds Certified Culinary Engineer" is now considered an equivalent "job" to one in the skilled manufacturing sector.
I'm glad you feel very sanguine about the situation, however. Keep up the cheerleading.
Freedom isn't free; its price is the well-being of others.
I would hazard a guess that you dodn't know the answer because you never finished school yourself.
#1 keiretsu do not offer any kind of employment. The word refers to a business arrangement between multiple companies that follows along the Machiavellan idea that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
#2 Even today, and even in Toyota, the concept of giri-ninjo(duty-empathy) is still strong in Japan and likely will be for the next decade. Companies continue to run at reduced revenues holding onto aged employees because letting them go would be an insult to the years of faithful service given to the company. This is SLOWLY giving way to performanced based positioning and retention, but a majority of Japan's woes (and potentially soon to be America's) is the gross amount of bad debt produced in out of control investing. The dot-com bubble was just a taste of what will happen if China decides to float its currency ala Thailand.
The Wired story is dead on! I'd hire someone from Asia straight out of undergrad school any day over an American with 10 years experience. Why?
Education: Asians average an extra 150+ hours of K12 education a year. Most school systems teach responsibility from day one by assigning class leaders and having the students clean their own classrooms.
Work ethics: are centered around providing the highest level of quality all the time, not just "when it matters." If you ever go to Japan, before you go to see the temples, or the bullet train, or Electric town, go to McDonalds. You won't find someone wearing a stained uniform, chewing gum, and moving to get your food like they're in a competition to see how slow they can go. You'll find a clean restaraunt, with professional workers who zip around putting everything together like they're swamped, even if you are the only customer waiting. Oh yeah, and the food actually looks like the pictures there. McDonalds is a low wage job there just like it is here. The difference is simply attitude. Their's is good, our is....
You were expecting me to say money next....you were wrong. The cheap labor rates in the western area os SE Asia are certainly nothing to break my heart, but I'd still outsource to india and china even if their cost of living was 50% higher than here. It's all about bang for your buck and right now, America is lagging behind with no sign of recovery. I have no doubt we will, because Americans hate to be in second place. But then again, we also just gained the title of most obese nation in the world...what an honor!
I've dirtied my hands writing poetry, for the sake of seduction; that is, for the sake of a useful cause. --Dostoevsky
I was going to commend him on his choice for waiting to get married (based on my choices of marrying early), but then I read your post. I guess the lesson learned is to date as many girls as you can between the ages of 16-26 and then towards the 25,26,27,28 years pick one and keep her.
ok. one of life's lessons learned. Now people, listen to us old timers. We know what we're talking about.
because I have been enjoined by this Holy Office to abandon the false opinion which maintains that the Sun is the centre
I went to one of the top engineering universities in the US and graduated in the top 1%. There were plenty of others like me there who did well despite not having been subjected to a fascist K-12 regime.
I want to applaud you for your creativity and your development of skills even when put in a lax system. But let me tell you that that's not the case for everyone. Many people in the US are losing their teenage years doing shit when they should be using the scholastic system of the state for their education and skills. I blame the lax education system of the US, extreme individualism of students, lack of respect towards teachers, lack of understanding of the importance of education from the parents' part, and (this one is personal) the people that argue all the time with the teacher (I say STFU and learn, then talk).
For example, the math they teach in Korean highscools surpasses that which is taught in US highschools by far. The fact that there are highschool students struggling with the mathematic problems in the SATs is a sad reality. I lived in Korea for 9 years and I sucked at math (btw, I still suck at it)... I probably got some of the lowest scores in my class. Still the SAT math was very easy for me. My classmates in Korea saw the SAT's math part and couldn't believe that this was the level of math required in the US to enter college.
If you take the average GPA of a student from the US and that from one from Asia (I'm getting too general here), the US student might have a higher score. But you have to be aware that the content learned in Asian highschools is extremely advanced. The competition in their system is just mindblowing. Competition is necessary to screen who can make it to the best universities, who can make it to a university in the city(i.e. Tokyo, Seoul), and who has to go to the crappy outer universities.
I'll take the example of Korea one more time... Students go to school from 7am to 9pm during weekdays(some schools till 11pm). Many students have to go to academic institutions to study more after they get out of school at night. Many get back home after 12am to wake up 6 hours later. On Saturdays many have to stay in school till 6pm. Some schools even make students come on Sundays. Most highschools make students go to school during the vacations. It doesn't matter if it's raining, snowing, hailing(?), or even if they're in war... a student's duty is to go to school to get educated. You might think this is an exaggeration; it's not. The average number of subjects a student has to take a year is over 12. They have to excel in all their subjects to make it to a good university. I don't want to talk much of the crap they have to go through in class... but just to list a few things that happened while I went to school; teachers hit students, they can use sticks (hockey sticks, pool sticks, brooms) or simply punch you, punishments are crazy, you'll be sorry if you're a smoker and get caught smoking, no questions are asked in class, you're dead if you yawn in front of the teacher, you eat lunch in the classroom, you clean up your classroom... I could go on forever. All of this is done to 'discipline' students who 'don't know what's right'. The punishments and the hitting are slowly disappearing.
I'm not trying to say that the Korean or Asian way is better or that it is 'good'. And not everyone in the Asian schooling system turns out to be a genius. Many people simply can't endure the mental and physical whiplash imposed on them. But, I'm just trying to say that there's a whole different world out there getting their brains fried with education. So, if you want to compete in the future, you better get those kids of yours a *real* education.