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Two-Fisted Computing
whiterat writes "3Dconnexion is selling a variety of input devices that provide a left-hand complement to the traditional computer mouse. The devices control the position of on-screen objects in design programs such as Adobe Systems' Photoshop and its 3D modeling application, Maya. That enables designers to work without constantly togging between 'view' and 'create' modes." Smash TV veterans need no extra training.
My left hand finds the URL's
My right hand...........
No, but SGI does.
I'm a lefty and have to say this doesn't affect me because I'm so accustomed to using the mouse on the right side. Although this is a nice development, there is no way I'm going to give up the ability to use stylus with a digitizing tablet while at the same time using the mouse. Maybe right-handed people can make use of this.
I remember back in the early 80s your response was the same one that many people used when the Mouse first appeared. It was pointless, applications would need extra more complex code to support it, and nobody would end up buying one because there was no application support.
Now they're ubiquitous.
On another point, I once worked as a computer operator for landscaping data. We had tablets with large areas for digitizing maps where the 22 button tablet (yes, as large as a mouse) was used for tracing outlines, a 5-key chorded keyboard used on the left for other functions, and key pedals used for switching context. It didn't take long to get used to, and for the purpose it was needed for saved a great deal of time on a keyboard+mouse only. Everything has its uses
I don't know about you guys, but I can't move my left hand anywhere near as quickly and precisely as my right.
On a digital device like a keyboard, where I either do, or do not, hit a target I can get away with this, but an analogue pointing device like a mouse is another question. And I expect using two similar pointing devices in different hands will add some disorientating effects on top of that.
The device is an interesting idea, now they just need to engineer the people who can use it efficiently.
"The worst tyrannies were the ones where a governance required its own logic on every embedded node." - Vernor Vinge
I don't know about others, by my left hand rests on the keyboard.
What I wish is that there was a one-handed keyboard so I could type with one hand and mouse with the other.
Traversing back & forth between using the keyboard and the mouse causes noticable slowdown when you use the computer all day.
Maybe that's why I like CLIs so much? *shrug*
Don't get me wrong, I use GUIs all the time, too, but you can't type in data with a mouse... (at least, not with any program I have)
The deal with Maya is that to easily create in 3d, you actually work in a 3d environment. Navigation, just as in a video game, is done with one hand on the mouse and one on the keyboard. The keyboard hand is used to select tools, etc, and to choose what mode the mouse input goes in. The mouse is used to rotate, scale, and pan the object in front of the camera (or the camera around the object, depending on your philosophy). For example, holding CTRL while using the left mouse button rotates (if I remember right--I really can't tell offhand without actually doing it).
So because input is so odd in such a program, I can imagine many ways to do it differently (unlike, say, typing, in which there really is only one obvious paradigm--one key per letter). I don't know specifically how they implement this, and I do personally feel relatively comfortable with the current setup, but it could be neat.
On a tangent, though, I think personally the big issue with working in 3d is not input per se, but the fact that the input and display are both two dimensional, despite the goal being to create something three dimensional. So for example, how two dimensional movements on a mousepad translate into three dimensional rotation can be kinda hard to get used to, and quite hard to be precise with. Also, I occasionally found myself, when I was first learning Maya, trying to move my head to look around the edges of an object (quite silly, I know). So the limitations of a two dimensional screen are also clear.
i guess this has to be asked... i use autocad and photoshop quite a bit. in photoshop, you have to constantly swtich to a zoom mode to move around the image you're working on. same in illustrator, pagemaker, etc, etc. in autocad, same deal, except your left (other) hand can use keyboard commands since there is a command line. anyways...
why hasn't someone written a driver which lets you use a second mouse/trackball as a "view" device. for example, in autocad, it'd have the same functionality as the main mouse, but would be dedicated to view commands.
-Michael Roy Some people are like Slinkies. Not really useful, but you can't help smiling when you see one tumble down
I could really have done without the mental imagery associated with the concept of double fisting. Thanks for the headline. Not. :P
I'm a righty, but I switched to a left-handed mouse about five years ago after a one-week motorcycle trip around the Great Lakes (intense vibration) followed by a one-week click-fest through the original Fallout RPG.
Because I make my living as a computer geek, I was surprised and dismayed to find just how messed up my right wrist was after that boneheaded combination of events. I tentatively switched over to using the mouse left-handed, meaning to do it temporarily, but discovered that within a week I was pretty comfortable, and within two weeks I had fully adjusted.
Five years later I'm still using it left-handed, which seems to mess up both righties and lefties when they try to use my workstation. I used to use xwrits to remind me to take regular mouse breaks so I don't (&%# up this wrist too, but I've been bad lately.
I've thought about a two-mouse system, but editing code and writing tech docs really lends itself to a keyboard. If I was an artist maybe a two-mouse system would let me switch brushes and colours midstroke, but I'm no artist. Just a recently minted ambidextrous person. I suppose if I were in Russia, I could say that the mouse manipulated ME...
The original creator of the mouse, Douglas Engelbart, always assumed you would use a one-handed "chord" keyboard with one hand, and use the mouse with the other hand. From what I have heard, if you invested the time to learn this, you could really rock.
http://sloan.stanford.edu/mousesite/1968Demo.html
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The "new" SpaceTraveler knob reminds me of the "dials and buttons" that SGI (Silicon Graphics Inc) used to sell with their workstations years ago:i als-and-buttons.jpg
http://www.rrzn.uni-hannover.de/Grafik/sgi/onyx/d
Basiclly two panels... one covered with programmable buttons, the other with programable knobs. These, plus a SpaceBall, and you really didn't need to spent much time using the keyboard. I see that Magellan/Logitech still sells Spaceballs--they're sure neat, especially when using an app that supports two-handed modeling... one hand "holds" and moves the 3D model (usually in wireframe mode) with the 3D spaceball, while the other hand uses the mouse to work on the wireframe itself.
I'd like to be able to have two mice, two pointers, on the screen at the same time. Say you're working in Photoshop. It's a pain to have to go to the left-hand side to switch tools. What if you could select tools with the left-hand mouse and paint/select with the right-hand mouse? (This is different from what they are doing in that I would like two seperate, fully functioning mice and cursors.)
It ain't possible in Windows.. is anything like this doable with X under Linux?
I don't know, it could turn out to be a terrible idea in practice (end up something like trying to pat your head and rub your belly at the same time), but I think it would be neat to try..
And put your mouse on the other side.
I LOVED Smash TV, although when I first became obsessed with it, it was the SNES version. Me and a friend played it pretty much every day until we beat it, at which point the game started over approximately four times as fast. We proceeded to play it every day until we finished that as well. (Hint: there's no reward for this other than YOUR MIND GETTING PERMANENTLY FUCKED)
That was about five years ago and I'm still twitching.
Well, being a left-hander, I do things a bit differently. I was raised with the mouse in the right hand, and that's the only way I can use it (I feel wierd using a left-handed mouse). Several years ago I got a Wacom tablet, which is a natural fit for my left hand. So now I find myself always having the mouse in the right hand, and the Wacom pen in the left, dropping both to use the keyboard, of course. It's so natural, everything flows. Mouse scroll-wheel to go through web pages, pen to quickly click on things or get down to business in Photoshop. Not sure about this new approach, I'll probably stick to what I've got. Maybe it's different for all you right-handed freaks out there. heh heh
Kip Hawley is an idiot.
Aah, no.
Maya is a high end 3d design and rendering tool used primarily in TV/ feature film and video-game production. The main relation it has to Photoshop is that you can paint textures for objects using photoshop.
As for the article, this seems mildly redundant at best and useless a worst. Graphic Design is my living (not exactly by choice . . ), and despite the spin in the article, my left hand is often as useful or more so than my moue hand. I taught myself photoshop 3 and have been getting more efficient at using it since then.
To get the most out of its tools, access to the shift and alt(option) keys is nessecary (subtracting from a selection for example). Holding down the spacebar completely eliminates the need to use the scroll windows at all. Learning keyboard shortcuts eliminates the need for most menu operations in a session, not to mention being that "cmd(ctrl) L" is much more effecient than menu selecting "Image>Adjustments>Levels."
I'm sure this device is useful for CAD, but the description doesn't sound like it is easier than pressing the space bar in photoshop or the option key to navigate Maya.
The TDI Explore system (the 3D software that was purchased by Wavefront, merged with Alias and became Maya) was based on the SGI "knob box".
This was a set of 8 rotary encoders, and virtually every function used the knobs. For instance, X and Y movement would be handled by the mouse, and Z with a knob. Z, Y and Z scaling would be three more knobs. Z, Y and Z rotation would be another three.
The knob functions would change based on what object you were manipulating. So the camera would have "Field of View" as one knob, and while the mouse handled U and V translation around the target, a knob would handle "trucking" (movement towards the target).
This was everywhere in the program, and I found it to be the fastest 3D interface I've ever worked in. The whole idea of "one hand on the mouse, one on the keyboard" is actually a canard - most people actually type with both hands, and have to bring their main hand into play to type anything of any length.
Of course the system had keyboard shortcuts. But most keyboard shortcuts are used to switch the mouse's functions. With the knob box, we had 8 adjustable parameters, plus the mouse. There are few items on a 3D world that have more than 8 parameters to change at a time.
I miss it.
"How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
I've got a Powermate right here, and though it's a very cool and quite useful gadget, the SpaceTraveler seems to be in a different league.
I think it's a spinoff of the old SGI SpaceBall pointer devices, which allowed for multiple axis input - you can push, pull, and move it left and right. The powermate just turns left and right on a vertical axis and can be pressed as a button. Looking further at their other products, the SpaceBall 5000 looks a lot like the old SGI unit. The SpaceTraveler's just a smaller portable version.
Of course, they don't seem to mention how many axes of input the thing provides on the website, so I dunno.
This is nothing particularly new. I've been using a Contour Designs ShuttlePro for years now with my left hand. It's a Jog/Shuttle controller, which you can of course use for video editing, but it's completely programmable for any other use, so I've configured it for back/forward buttons when in Mozilla, delete/compose/send/reply buttons in my mail client, scroll up/down in most applications (it's far easier on the hand then a wheel mouse), etc...
It's well worth checking out, especially because of their great programmable software which lets you do just about anything from the controller. It takes a little getting used to, but worth it in the amount of time it saves.
the $499 price tag is definately just silly. for about $35, I bought the serial version in a slightly different piece of plastic, called the SpaceTec SpaceOrb.
e re .html
:)
1. Find awesome concept company about to go under and buy.
2. Change design a little, and sell for 5-6 times the price.
3. PROFIT!
I am sorry, but I still stand behind modifying a PS2 AsciiSphere (the console version of the same hardware! check the insides! identical parts!), or just simply getting a ps2 - usb adapter. cheaper cost, same quality.
http://www.planethardware.com/spaceorb/asciisph
6 axis of awesome. Serious Sam was never quite the same after this toy
(From this month's Game Developer Magazine), by sean wagstaff
"If you work in 3D, navigation in space probably occupies far more of your day than you realize. But just as a painter doesn't give much thought to how he positions his brush on the canvas, experienced 3D artists don't really think about moving around in three-dimensional space. Unless you're using an unfamiliar application, say, switching from Maya to 3DS Max, navigation is simply an integral part of what you do and there's not much room for improvement. Or is there?
The $599 Space Traveler, which looks like a volume control knowb (complete with a purple LED accent on the buttons around it's rim) is designed to make 3D operations faster and more intuitive.
Using the Space Traveler is almost immediately familiiar. You plug it into your USB port and install the driver software (plug-ins are provided for Maya and Max, and built into MotionBuilder, Cinema 4D, and BodyPaint 3D, but the controller doesn't work with every 3D tool). To use it, you simply push, pull, tilt, and tist the single contol knob. Your finger movements translate directly into 3D space- x,y, and z rotation and translation, often referred to as six degrees of freedom - in your application. Lift th knob and you move up in y, push it forward and you move forward in z. Twist the knob and you'll rotate in y; tilt it, and you'll pitch forward or back, left or right. The tricky part is learning not to traslate on z when you pitch on x, and not to translate on y when you actually mean to roll on z (a temporary filter can be turned on that blocks non-dominant movements). But with a few minutes worth of practice to get a feel for it, the Space Traveler becomes very natural to use, although it is quite sensitive to even fine movement. However, you'll soon find yourself tumbling a scene around as easily as you would with your standard keyboard and moust combinations, and rotating a camera is certainly more intuitive than, say SHFT-CTRL-ALT-middle-mouse dragging.
Which brings us to the most obvious question about this device: who needs it? If you're already comfortable working in a 3d application, and navigation with the standard key commands and mouse actions has become second nature, why bother with yet another input device? In my experience, many 3D operations, such as architectural modeling, dynamics, and texture manipulations, simply require too much keyboard input to benefit from the Space Traveler at all. I need my hands on the keyboard, and mouse, and instant access to pop-ups and marking menus provided by my right hand mouse button, which just doesn't leave enough hands for a third input device.
On the other hand (literally) when it comes to operations that require one-handed navigation, the SpaceTraveler is a terrific idea. For example, when sculpting an organic model or painting textures on surfaces with a Wacom tablet, you can rotate and tumble the model with one hand, while painting with the other. While doing character animation, the SpaceTraveler can be used as a low-speed motion capture input device that lets you use gestures, rather than explicit rotations, to move a joint, although you'll have to set up your characters to work with this input. The device's eight buttons can be mapped to common keyboard shortcuts, and the defaults for Maya activate the Hot Box, translate, rotate, and scale commands. However, the buttons are too small with terrible ergonomics, and I still need to use the keyboard for other commands, such as the marking menus.
The SpaceTraveler, as the name implies, is small and portable. Although on-the-road walkthroughs of real-time-3D scenes seem unlikely, I found the SpaceTraveler useful as an accessory to a high-end 3D laptop for bringing work home. My Compaq runs all my 3D applications, but the built-in trackpad is all but useless for 3D navigation, and the keyboard is cramped, with a non-standard layout, which also makes navigation clumsy. The SpaceTraveler really i
the little knob with the fancy brushed metal look and blue LED's is cool and small, but really it's just a
/. but clearly old news.
Spaceball.
They have been around for a long time. CAD programs such as, Pro/e, I-deas, Solid Edge, Maya, Alias Studio Tools and others all have support for these devices, though Maya only recently joined that group for some reason.
The primary advantage is being able to very quickly establish a particular point of view for working on the model. A secondary one is to be able to dynamically change that point of view without having to leave the command you are in, or divert your mental attenion away from the task at hand.
Most other input schemes involving the keyboard and mouse cause you to give up your current state only to rotate or scale the model then re-establish said state. With one of these it is possible to be picking on things, making decisions, assembling parts all while moving (or flying as I see it) around the model space.
They also save considerable time over traditional nav tools, even if they are well developed and mature tools. Most nav tools have the hardest time helping the user deal with large changes in scale or orientation. Often the best comprimise is to use stored views in lieu of many repetitive command, mouse drag, command mouse drag sequences.
These devices allow motion in all 6 degrees of freedom without any context changes. A simple pull of the knob upward maintained for a half-second or so, combined with a slow twist throughout can perform the same function as zoom all, pan, zoom window or area, and rotate commands do.
(Picture looking at one small part of a 1000 part assembly knowing the next item of interest lies behind you and to the left. If you were to just 'move' there that is what these little devices do. Using the keyboard and mouse is like telling somebody else where the item is and how you would like to get there. --For what that is worth!)
They tend to be costly little buggers though.
It takes about 2 hours to bond with the device. After that, you will either love it, or hate it. A lot of this depends on the tool at hand as well. Some CAD tools have pretty good nav tools, so you don't have as much pain dealing with them. Others basically demand a controller like this (hey Unigraphics!) to get work done in a reasonable manner.
This new little toy has 5 or 6 little buttons around the edge that can be programed for different tasks. The device communicates via USB. Most programs need a driver of sorts, though they can be downloaded for free from the website. Some packages have the support built-in. (I-deas, Unigraphics, Pro/e, Alias Studio, others...)
If you have large hands, this particular model will annoy you because it is little. Get one of the older devices that looks more like a hockey puck attached to a little stand. --Easier to manupulate, cheaper, and works exactly the same way.
Personally, I really like these things. Having used a number of CAD programs over the years, I can say they make a big difference. Traditional MCAD programs benefit most from the device when users are performing assembly and modeling, though to a lesser degree for the latter.
They are almost useless for 2D tasks because very few drafting / detailing programs actually make use of the device. For those that do, being able to pan and zoom while picking is nice, but often not much of a help over traditional view manupulation tools.
You can also do bizzarre things with it as well. Doing fly-through animations manually, just by flying around the model is pretty cool. It's easy to whip one of these out compared to keyframing all the different camera locations, or setting up many different views in an MCAD package.
If you are lucky enough to have a workstation configured with the 3D glasses and higher end MCAD software, you will find visualization tasks are excellent using one of these, but the 3D will give you a headache after about 30 minutes.
Anyway, cool stuff that I am happy to see on
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