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Creativity, a Problem for the Gaming Industry?

Steeda95GT writes "A Reuters story reprinted at Forbes.com is an interesting read, saying that 'The gaming industry will shrink unless we start to see new games'. It talks about how the ratio of original titles to sequels is dropping dramatically, but it also goes on to say that upcoming sequels (Doom 3, Halo 2, Half-Life 2, GTA: San Andreas) will be successful only because their predecessors were."

30 of 522 comments (clear)

  1. Creativity? by panxerox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, its guts. Guts to try new things to break away from what is known in games, to produce the kind of games that new customers really want. The market is what you make it.

    --
    "It's so convenient to have a system where everyone is a criminal" - A. Hitler
    1. Re:Creativity? by BlueCodeWarrior · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not just guts to try new things.

      Guts to throw your cash into funding for trying new things.

    2. Re:Creativity? by ashot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Altough I agree that there is a lack of creativity/guts in the industry in general, I disagree with the proposition that a sequel implies that a game necessarily lacks creativity.
      I particularly object to slapping HL2 with this label; if you've seen the previews and the screenshots you know that this game will be revolutionary in many respects (graphics/game-play/physics engine/characters), the fact that it is a sequel is not relevant.

      Also, what about the the massive multiplayer games? I think they are the future, and the sky is the limit there.

      --
      -ashot
    3. Re:Creativity? by Mistlefoot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The story starts out talking about Pacman but then finishes with discussing only modern "video intensive" games.

      I'd bet that "yahoo games" or popcap games are as popular as the traditional store bought games.

      Simulation type games (Monoploy Tycoon - SimCity) aren't touched neither, nor are Sports type games.

      This article doesn't really seen to a variety of games at all. Yet it implies that "new" games aren't coming out. They are.

    4. Re:Creativity? by JPriest · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think the problem is the current focus on stunning graphics rather than fun gameplay. The 10 best games I have ever played are all on old systems. Could just be becasue I was younger back then, but that seems to be the case. The future of the current gaming industry is online gaming and LAN parties. No AI is more fun than playing a human.

      --
      Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
    5. Re:Creativity? by Spy+Hunter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You know what? As a consumer, what I really want is Half-Life 2. I want Doom 3. I want Grand Theft Auto 5. I'm not afraid to admit it. I don't think there's anything wrong with producing game sequels. I think incremental improvments are still improvements. I like an original, completely different game just as much as anyone else, but all these people bitching about the number of sequels/clones are missing the point. The game industry is huge now, and still growing. There's more than enough room for sequels, clones, *and* original games. If you can't find any original games out there, you're just not looking hard enough (hint: there's more to the game industry than what you'll find at your local Wal-Mart).

      --
      main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
    6. Re:Creativity? by cbreaker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Current focus? It's ALWAYS been the focus of video games! From the first video arcade games, to the ataris, nintendos, segas.. It's always been about graphics as much as anything else. It sells, people like cool graphics, they always will.

      Nope, good graphics don't make a game any more then special effects make the new Star Wars movies. There's always been bad games and there's always been good ones. Cutting-edge graphics are a constant, they will always be of major importance.

      --
      - It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
    7. Re:Creativity? by Frymaster · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I think you're confusing revolutionary with evolutionary.

      exactly! currently, the overwhelming majority of games fall into the following categories:

      • first person shooter
      • real time strategy
      • simulation
      • puzzle/solitaire
      • arcade action

      everybody remembers when sim city first came out. it was revolutionary. why? because it developed a whole new category: simulations.

      now there's a billion sim-foo games out there and the whole genre is in evolution mode: the sims "homeland security" expansion pack for example.

      what the gaming industry needs is a genre-defining game. something that breaks open a whole new gaming motif like doom and sim city and warcraft did.

      of course there will be those who say this isn't possible - that all the gaming paradigms have already been defined and nothing is really new anymore. but that's okay: we can't all be geniuses.

    8. Re:Creativity? by mriker · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The future of the current gaming industry is online gaming and LAN parties. No AI is more fun than playing a human.

      I think it depends on what type of game experience you're looking for. If you're looking to shoot at things in a crosshair in a first-person view without a pesky story to get in the way, I might agree with you. Otherwise, I think your view is perhaps the most ridiculous and over-used sentiments in the gaming community.

      Maybe I'm wrong, but looking back at amazing gaming experiences such as Fallout, Deus Ex, Half-Life, Splinter Cell, and Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (to name a few), I can't imagine how any these games could've been made better with human characters, rather than AI characters. Heck, I can't imagine how these games wouldn't be total shit if the characters were human-controlled. And where are you going to find all of these humans to play these characters for you in a manner which is the slightest bit as interesting as the AI characters?

      In environments where games are designed to focus on the hero of the story, AI characters offer the best available experience. In a human-only gaming environment, you're just another name, and with only a few exceptions (ie. the most talented players), no one else in the game world could give a rat's ass who you are. That works great for some games, like Unreal Tournament and Counter-Strike, but games in that vain will never, ever replace great single-player experiences. Don't get me wrong; I enjoy both types of games. But I predict that the future of gaming to be much like it is now, as far as the relative number of single-player games vs. multi-player games on the market is concerned.

    9. Re:Creativity? by nfotxn · · Score: 4, Insightful
      But you're looking at it from the perspective of a gamer. One of the biggest problems facing the industry is lapsed gamers like myself. I haven't cared about graphics or physics engines since Quake came out! I don't think I ever will again because after a decade or so you figure out that technology is pretty certain to get better.

      One big problem I see as a bit of an outsider these days is just how inward gaming has become. It has it's own website, cartoons, language and television stations. Massively multiplayer games are exactly the wrong thing because they only encourage more niche culture and make gaming even moreso inward and exclusive. Interacting online is neat but I don't think most people want to become some Everquest playing vegetable who hasn't been exposed to sunlight in 96hrs.

      To me the most interesting ideas have been those that encourage all sorts of people to play games like DDR and the Eye Toy. Gaming needs to involve more people and get out of the Penny Arcade mindset of in-jokes and niche vernacular. Creativity requires inspiration and when you live in that world of 16-21yo middle class males, well, of course things are gonna start getting as stale as your buddy's BO after a three day LAN party.

      --

      _nfotxn

    10. Re:Creativity? by SillyNickName4me · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I learned long ago to not judge a game, and esp. not call it revolutionary untill after having played it for a while.

  2. Who needs... by jwthompson2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    originality and creativity when repackaging the same game and slapping a subtitle on it will rake in millions? The Sims comes to my mind...GTA is in a similar boat in my mind...

    --
    Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
    1. Re:Who needs... by SoLO · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I guess shift from GTA1&2 to GTA3 wasn't very "creative".

    2. Re:Who needs... by _Sharp'r_ · · Score: 4, Insightful


      Industries that turned into re-dos of old ideas with only a small number of new ideas long ago, but don't seem to have hurt very much financially from it:

      Books
      Movies
      Music
      Magazines

      I'm sure you can think of even more if you take a few minutes. I think the article is a little premature to say the gaming industry will shrink if we don't see more creativity. They don't seem to have any evidence of that beyond one developer's opinion. If you look at the hard numbers, I'd suspect that the overall industry continues to grow as more PCs and game consoles are sold to new households around the world.

      --
      The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
    3. Re:Who needs... by MilenCent · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well....

      BOOKS: There's still new literature being published. If you have something really new and interesting, there are still places that think this is an asset instead of a liability. And even in relatively traditional genres like mysteries, there is some degree of innovation.

      MOVIES: Again, studios still sometimes make thoughtful, enlightened work. The success of such films as Clerks and The Blair Witch Project make it clear that it's possible to make successful original cinema with little cash, a great inspiration to all those guys with a camera and a dream. Computers have really lowered the entry barrier on this one.

      MUSIC: Well, you can believe the RIAA's story that piracy is hurting sales, or you can look at their preponderance of girl stars and boy bands, and Clear Channel's locking up of mainstream radio. Even so, there are plenty of independent bands out there that may not be famous or get rich, but are doing what they want, and having fun doing it.

      MAGAZINES: Kind of a weird thing to bring up. Magazines tend to be driven more from utilitarian principles than out of a need to entertain and create. Even so, the field is constantly expanding and changing.

      It's a basic human trait to seek novelty. The possible audience may go up, but people *will not* play the same game over and over again, forever. Even Tetris got old after the thousandth game. The question is, are new games different enough from old ones that people will keep buying them?

      I'm also not so sure the audience is increasing. As more people get computers the market is becoming saturated. Most people don't need more than one, and the perceived benefit to upgrading is diminishing.

    4. Re:Who needs... by RobertFisher · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You have some good points, but there is one key distinction you are missing.

      There IS certainly innovation among all those categories (books, films, music, etc.), but the VAST MAJORITY of the innovation is usually being made on a very small scale, with just a handful of talented individuals working on the edge. Movies are a great example. Blair Witch was not produced by a Hollywood theatre, nor are the dozens of indie films snatched up by Hollywood distributors at Sundance and other film festivals. They are made by a few people, almost always on a shoestring budget (often funded on someone's credit cards!). A number of these films are made with astonishingly low budgets... El Mariachi was done on $10K, and many not much more than that. The same goes for books (where just a single person working in their spare hours can produce the next classic), music, and zines.

      Now... back to the game industry. What can anyone do with $10K these days? That would hardly be enough money to purchase one high-end workstation with Maya and other requisite software tools. You see, people are EXPECTING highly polished graphics and gameplay out of each new video game. Long gone are the days where a single Russian program can whip out Tetris in a few weeks of effort, and create a sensation. I'm sure that thousands of slashdotters have tremendous ideas for awesome games, and many of them have the programming skills to pull it off. But if they are to to compete with the current big-name titles, they have to play by their rules. Who will do the artwork? The motion capturing and animation? The original music score? The voice-overs? The analogy to films would be like if the movie-going audience demanded to see Return of the King-quality battles and special effects in EVERY film they see. If that were the case, then the indie film industry would be dead as a doornail too.

      There is room for innovation here (think of games like Snood) but the game-going audience needs to lose their addiction to big-name licenses and fancy production values and focus on the one thing that gaming is about : fun.

      Bob

      --
      Science, like Nature, must also be tamed, with a view turned towards its preservation.
  3. If it's good, it's good by l810c · · Score: 5, Insightful
    While I agree with most of the article, I don't know about this line:

    But it is not just EA chasing after proven material. Upcoming titles such as "Halo 2," "Half-Life 2," "Doom III" and "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas" are all expected to top sales charts this year, in large part because the games that preceded them were so successful.

    Sure this will get them noticed more, but if the games don't have innovative graphics and gameplay, the popularity of the previous titles is not going to mean shit.

  4. Successful only because their predecessors were? by SlamMan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Successful only because their predecessors were? Thats certainly a backwards way of looking at it. They're successful because they kept doing (and by expanding upon) what made their predecessors good games.

    They may not be original, but that certainly doesn't mean they won't be fun, which is what gaming's supposed to be about. Why reinvent the wheel when you know what people like?

    --
    Mod point free since 2001
  5. Not too sure... by ccnull · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Analysts have been saying the same thing about Hollywood for 20 years, but every year the box office is consistently bigger than the last (and rising faster than inflation) -- and much of that is powered by sequels. In 2003, 6 of the top 10 grossing movies were sequels. And when Hollywood is short on sequels, they recycle old ideas -- Spider-Man was the #1 film of 2002, and it's free to spawn more sequels anew.

    Bottom line: Creativity has been floundering for a long time, but people keep buying games, keep watching TV, keep going to the movies. Businesspeople would be fools to abandon a known quantity (the revenues of any sequel are easily predictable) in favor of new stories and fresh faces, not matter how much some of us would love to see them. To think that people will suddenly stop buying games because they're all sequels is silly; gamers really have no choice except not to play... and only in WarGames/I. is that a real option.

    1. Re:Not too sure... by James+Lewis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, and what have we seen in the last few years? The rise of the independent film, and these films by their nature demand that they be new, fresh, and creative to be successful. They may not be the MOST successful movies, but as a whole these types of movies are a lot more successful than they used to be. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen to the video game industry, with mod makers filling the shoes of independent film makers. Of course, the biggest problem here is that while making an independent film is getting easier and less costly every year, making a game is becoming MORE costly and harder every year. That's why mod developers need everything but the content up front. The tools, the engine, etc. And they need a way of selling the game afterwards. That means either having game companies that support modding offering fair compensation for sales of modded games and allowing its creaters to retain ownership of their IP, or having a good opensource engine and set of tools developed.

  6. Doom 3 by NitsujTPU · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think that Doom 3 doesn't really fall into the catagory of the other games.

    1) Doom 3 is retro. The last Doom game came out while I was still in high school.
    2) Doom 3 is a significant advance over the last sequel. It's not just new levels.

    Saying Doom 3 is just a sequel is like saying Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time was just a sequel. There's no comparison.

    Still, I think that companies will start coming out with more creative games soon. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised of LARPing became the next big thing, and games that are offshoots of RPGs became bigger, such as the White-Wolf titles, only with more roleplay.

  7. It's Like ClearChannel... by schnarff · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You know, video games are going the same way as radio -- more and more of the same crap, over and over and over again. No one wants to give anything new a chance, even though there's plenty of new stuff out there. The only difference is, I don't know that there's been much of a change in the corporate ownership structure in the video game industry like there has been in radio (i.e. the ClearChannel takeover). But then again, I suppose there wasn't much in the way of diversity in video game companies to start with, was there?

    The saddest thing about it is, if there were ever a new game that did what, say, Legend of Zelda did back in the 80's, the company that put it out could make zillions. It's not like they'd lose much putting out crappy stuff meanwhile, either. ::Sigh::...if only companies weren't so damn risk-averse, maybe society could progress a bit.

  8. Re:Garage Games by Zardus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Its more stuff like ThinkTanks, that feature kinda psuedo-unique gameplay that's a bit hard to master but very fun. Reminds me of the good old days of shareware games on DOS.

    --
    You can mod your friends, you can mod your nose, but you can't mod your friend's nose.
  9. Problem is funders and bad management... by kbonin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As someone that just left the game industry for the second time - this time 'cause I got tired of looking for a job that didn't require a minimum of 80 hour weeks working on either a n-th generation sequel or a game that tried to differentiate itself through pushing the gore / splatter level:

    The problem is with the people FUNDING the game industry. The independent shops are being swallowed by companies that have made loads of cash getting away with pumping out sequels that have only minor engine improvements. This sucks, but worked for a while in a few profitable genres. Many companies that tried to push it died after too many generations (I used to work at Accolade, that's part of what killed them...)

    Unfortunately, people that funds games look at this seeming no-risk model, and refuse to fund anything that doesn't look like the same. They all want you to license an existing engine, and make a game that can be described in a single sentence as {profitable game A } crossed with {profitable game B.}

    If you don't follow this model, you don't get funds.

    As a related point, there are WAY too many companies in the industry for the amount of shelf space available, and the big players BUY shelf space, so its nearly impossible to compete anyway without cutting a deal with an existing major distributor. Want to do that? Guess what, you have to change your game to follow the same model as everyone else.

    In the mean time, the EA's and Sony's of the world are pushing their developers harder and harder - they've currently got a surplus of available headcounts to replace all the burnt out ones with...

    The industry needs more "angel" funders. But in this economy...

  10. "New" was never a requirement by cstec · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The premise that the industry will shrink if we don't see "new" games is patently false. We don't see new games because people don't buy new games. They buy the games they already liked, but different.

    Consider that men have been going to bars, drinking too much and going home with ugly women for thousands of years. (The oldest known human recipe is a Mesopotamian recipe for beer) Obviously humans can do what they like indefinately, even if they regret it the next morning.

  11. Industry right on track. by Crizzam · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The way I see it the video game industry is analgous to the movie industry or music industry in general. In fact, we can group all of these under the heading "Entertainment Industry".

    I will use the movie industry as an example and I believe the analogy will become fairly self evident. In the early phases of film making the director had to struggle with many technical issues as the art form was in it's infancy. Low light shots, grey balance, film processing, sound editing and duplication were enormous technical and logistical hurdles. As the technology of this artform became more complex, people involved became specialized in their particular niche of the process. The technical resources are now available to the director without the complete, in depth knowlege of each process. The director is free to focus on his particular job: making the best movie possible. (Please note, I'm not in the entertainment industry, I'm just hoping to make a point here)

    A video game, without question, is a form of art and entertainment. I believe that the industry is still in a developing phase. In the beginning, the person programming the game WAS the director. Typically they concieved the game, developed, programmed and had the challenge of overcoming all technical and creative issues. (Relatively few creative issues, I might add [think: pong]).

    Now the indusrty is seeing it's split of fields. People are now only responsible for texture mapping 3-d models. Other people work on physics engines. We have been seeing the specialization of technical fields within this industry. My arguement is that this specialization allows for greater creative freedom by those whose job it is to just "make great games".

    Lastly, I think there have been a lot of crap games recently, but let's look at why that is. Well, why is it such a high percentage of early movies made are now considered classics? Well, they were good movies, but why? Because the people who made them were professionals and it was expensive to make a movie back then, so they took it seriously. Today, anybody with a DV Camcorder and iMovie can make a film, but how much of the stuff thats churned out is actually worth watching? It's the same with video games, the development and distribution costs of game making has dropped dramatically and the technology to produce games is now as easy as getting a developers kit and a PC.

    Any discussion of the current state (or future) of the gaming industry without at least a footnote to the entertainment industries history, I think, is somewhat lacking perspective. I believe the industry is in an acceptable place, given its relatively short history.


  12. Which leads to the unspoken truth... by bonch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sequels are chosen because they're safer and more prone to make money. PC game publishers are worried because piracy is eating into sales so badly. Consoles are a little safer, particularly the Gamecube.

    It's the great unspoken truth that Slashdot won't admit. Rampant game piracy is a problem. Look at all the stupid copy protection we have to go through. It is still insane to expect people to have to put in a game CD every time they play, but publishers make the development teams put them in.

    1. Re:Which leads to the unspoken truth... by Afrosheen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The entertainment industry as a whole is hitting a brick wall. Hollywood keeps making 'safe' movies and rehashing old ones for guaranteed hits. The game industry is doing the same thing.

      The problem started as the cost of entry went up for developers and filmmakers. When it was cheaper to make movies, studios were (and smaller independents still are) more apt to make risky movies that don't fit into a rehashed, well trodden category. Same goes for game makers. You'll keep seeing Doom and Quake as long as Doom and Quake are easy to evolve and guaranteed to sell 15 million copies worldwide. The last thing any developer wants at this point is to throw an ungodly amount of money at a project and end up with another Daikatana.

      Also at fault are the publishers. Some publishers just won't take on specific games because they feel they won't sell. What you end up with is what we all have today. People wanting something new or different but when they're given it, they don't buy into it heavily enough to send the message to publishers that 'we want something new, and we really mean it'.

      If you're a smaller movie studio or smaller game shop, you can take bigger risks as long as you keep costs down. There have been some great indy films and smaller publisher games over the years.

  13. Re:Answer me something... by tapin · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The grandparent doesn't claim that it "doesn't affect" store sales.

    He claimed that the RIAA is claiming that piracy is hurting sales, and then pointed out that their hand-wringing was contradicted by their continued success.

    Be that as it may, I believe the grandparent's skepticism is well-founded. "Piracy" (what a terrible term) has -- according to pretty much every study that wasn't commissioned by payments from the major labels (and even a few that were) -- either a negligible or positive affect on sales.

    I've never understood Slashdot's reasoning for this.

    Well, first of all, -2 points for assuming that all of Slashdot has a single opinion on anything.

    If you've never understood the reasoning behind people arguing that sharing a product also being sold doesn't automatically hurt sales, you are apparently unfamiliar with the concept of "advertising". You've also never read any of Janis Ian's or Cory Doctorow's essays on the matter -- two people in a position to actually be able to compare their sales figures before and after.

    If you choose to remain ignorant of arguments being presented by either side, that's really not "Slashdot"'s problem.

  14. Take "Total Annihilation" as an example by phoenix321 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It was from 199? (before 1998) and it had no heroes and only small diversity in the teams. But the building and the order system were revolutionary, I'd say.

    There were 2 switches for unit behaviour, that could be set per unit, directly, via a group selection or as a default for new units from a specific factory.

    The first was aggression: always shoot, only shoot back, do never shoot and the second was allowed path deviance: break orders whenever aggression triggered, stray only lightly from the path, stay on orders no matter what.

    That was perfect in my opinion, since you could easily create guards, patrols, offensive patrols and suicide missions without the need for any "pre-fab"-stances.

    These stances also applied to non-combat units, since you had a multitude of construction vehicles, that were all able to interact with one another, automatically.

    Set a constructor to shoot-all, and it will repair anything damaged and harvest any resource it sees along its patrol. Set path straying to light and it would only repair standing units and buildings, set it to liberal and it would follow damaged units until they are fully repaired, then returning to the next path vertex. And all would aid in construction buildings automatically.

    Now imagine you do this with 20 construction aircrafts, that patrol your base, repair all buildings, repair all defense units, aid in all construction projects and harvesting minor resource thingies along the way.

    Imagine another thing: you could set the aircraft factory with a predefined guard route and the stance behaviour, then assign some construction units to "guard" that factory. They will then aid in all construction projects this factory starts and will heal the factory if it gets damaged. Since there are 20 units helping, it churns out aircrafts extremely quick. All these go on an offensive patrol directly or meandering into enemy territory, sweeping anything away they see en-route. All this, while you concentrate on the main tank/battleship attack, resource expansion or a stealth operation behind the enemy.

    This is automation and that's what I expect from todays games. Westwoods "Dune2 Battle for Arrakis" had essentially created the genre, but you had to click and command each and every unit on its own. Wasted mouse and brain of the avid gamer in less than 3 hours, but it was still a great game. Command & Conquer added a central build interface, unit grouping, hotkeys. Starcraft made this more RPG-like with clear values for each aspect of the units and allowed the first automations. "Attack ground" for a rapidly growing hydralisk army bred from 10 or more hatches was devastating against all but the most skillful micromanagers, since it used the most valuable resource in a realtime-strategy game - human attention.

    Warcraft3 went leaps and bounds backwards. This game needs such a minute attention to details, micromanagement on all occasions, even special units to care and feed for and even an inventory to fill properly. Come on, I wouldn't consider this "strategic" anymore. Strategy is a concentration on overall goals, resource management, unit mix and attack plans. Warcraft is more like a tactical element on a smaller scale. If you like it that way, no problem. But it wasn't revolutionary on any aspects. It just consumed too much attention with no chance of recovery.

    Strategic games shouldn't give the player the feeling of a trained hamster in a wheel. Recurring and trivial clicky-tasks should be assigned to some of the units in the game. "Repair all buildings damaged in the last whatever-storm" shouldn't involve more than 3 clicks. Let the player decide how much micromanagement he'd like to use. And through that, you not only make the game fun to play with, you also create possibilities for more discoveries and "real" skill & experience increase for the player as they find new ways to let the units interact. That way, you can win the game with less-than-perfect hand-eye-coordination since you don't compare click speed but some kind of "leadership"-qualities. At least it does not become a boring clickfest...