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Dragon Quest V Remake Hits Big In Japan

Posted by simoniker on from the different-strokes-for-different-folks dept.

Thanks to GamerFeed for its article noting that Square Enix's PlayStation 2 remake of Dragon Quest V has debuted big in Japan, since this previously mentioned SNES remake has already "sold over a million units in just 2 days", additionally helped by "the inclusion of a preview disc of Dragon Quest VIII." The series, known as Dragon Warrior in the States, has never really taken off outside Japan, however: "Dragon Quest VII went on to sell more copies than any other PSOne game in Japan ever. By contrast, Dragon Warrior VII, and the Dragon Warrior series, has never attained more than a small but loyal cult following in the US."

39 comments

  1. First Post by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

    yay! Dragon quest was an awesome game, and i cant wait to try out the ps2 remake. They should do this with more games, like FFVI and FFVII and FFV

  2. FFVII Remake by BlueCodeWarrior · · Score: 2, Informative

    Too late.

    As it says in the post, check out Game Informer. Awesome screenshots of it all...Barret looks especially impressive.

    1. Re:FFVII Remake by simoniker · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, I think the Final Fantasy VII project ended up being a CG movie, and not an actual game remake, sadly?

    2. Re:FFVII Remake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From the source link of the source link, they comment that footage of the CG movie might be with the game, which would imply they were separate entities.

      The REAL question, of course, is "Is that the April issue?"

    3. Re:FFVII Remake by CaptMonkeyDLuffy · · Score: 4, Funny

      CG Movie versus game remake? Since we're talking about Square, there isn't much difference between the two to begin with.

  3. The question is... by dancingmad · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Anyone know if there are plants to bring 5 over here to the U.S.? With DQ8 coming out later in the year and Final Fantasy 12 being pushed back for DQ, I really need my RPG fix.

    --
    "There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
    1. Re:The question is... by geminidomino · · Score: 1, Interesting
      Score: -1 Flamebait Don't hope too hard. Remember what Square did to Final Fantasy (since you like DQ/DW, I can only assume you were around before that abortion that was FF7).

      Square's 2 strikes:
      1. Final Fantasy X-2, a DIRECT sequel to an FF game
      2. Final Fantasy XI being an MMO Bazaar[0]
      3. Dragon Warrior 8 is their last chance for redemption
      Skewing even further off-topic, does anyone know why Square gave up the rights to Xenogears to Namco? Xenosaga is a disappointment. =\

      [0]I refuse to call it an RPG since no one frickin' roleplays on it! "BUY MY CHEAP ORE!!!" I've decided NOT to pay $13/mo for just another level-grinder... have to destroy the HD now so I have an excuse to return it. ;)
    2. Re:The question is... by metroid+composite · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Look to a different system perhaps? I've noticed that RPGs comming out for the GBA are suddenly going up, whereas PS2 RPGs were never really released at the same rate as PSX RPGs. As far as those go, I can personally reccomend Mario and Luigi, have heard good things about Fire Emblem 7 and mediocre things about FFTA. Golden Sun...is made by the same people as Beyond the Beyond, though a fair bit better polished at least....

      Though, even on the PS2, La Pucelle is comming out in...3 days actually; and that's a quite significant release (sequel to Disgaea).

    3. Re:The question is... by dancingmad · · Score: 2, Interesting

      La Pucelle isn't a sequel to Disgaea, it was created and released before Disgaea in Japan and they're unconnected (though Pucelle is supposed to make a cameo in Disgaea, I haven't seen her).

      I liked FFTA as much as my commentary is worth. It wasn't as grand as FFT, but I did like the graphics and battle system. It had its bad points, but I loved it and played it all the way through.

      As for the GBA, I am playing Tactics Ogre now, and FE and Mario and Luigi are slated next on my list.

      As for Square screwing up FF, yes kinda. FFX-2 is a directy sequely and it's not that great a game, but FFX was a reasonable successor to the FF series. My only major compliant was FF8, which blew hard, but my favorite has been FF6. I was like you, not caring much about a new FF title, but since FF12 is being made by the the team from FFTA and being set in more or less the same world, I'm letting my self get excited about it.

      --
      "There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
    4. Re:The question is... by DarkZero · · Score: 1

      La Pucelle isn't a sequel to Disgaea, it was created and released before Disgaea in Japan and they're unconnected (though Pucelle is supposed to make a cameo in Disgaea, I haven't seen her).

      In the last few chapters of Disgaea, options will open up in the Dark Congress that allow you to enter a series of hidden worlds. The really, really high level ones that I can't even get to yet contain some La Pucelle characters. You have to have an obscenely high level though, so in order to get them, I'd go straight to GameFAQs as soon as you beat the story portion of the game.

  4. I Once Read A Cool Fact About DQ... by FlipmodePlaya · · Score: 1

    I may get soem of this wrong, but apparently the series is so popular in Japan, the government mandated that it only be released on weekends. This was because hundreds of thousands of kids would skip school to buy it, when it came out on weekdays.

    1. Re:I Once Read A Cool Fact About DQ... by BlueCodeWarrior · · Score: 5, Informative

      Google is your friend.

      From the link:
      Dragon Quest is so popular that when Dragon Quest 3 was release in Japan, many people skipped school to buy it and fights broke out over the carts. Because of this, law now requires them to release Dragon Quest games on weekends.

    2. Re:I Once Read A Cool Fact About DQ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the DQV remake was released last thursday in Japan. I guess the rule no longer applies.

  5. My thoughts by DarkkOne · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've been a fan of the DQ/DW series since the first game... it was actually the first RPG I played on the NES. I think the problem with sales in the US is that RPGs never were *incredibly* popular at first anyway. Once FF2 and 3 (4/6) came out on the SNES, even among the niche, the party system of FF had lodged itself in everyone's minds, as well as the variety of travel in its world.

    Then came FFVII, and the way it somehow attracted a fairly large crowd of what previously weren't RPG players. By the time we got DQVII, Final Fantasy was far superior, at least if you were looking purely at polycount. The people attracted to eyecandy, and action (the kind of people FF7/8 seem to have appealed to) found the mostly sprite-based (yes, they *were* 3D to an extent) graphics, and slower gameplay of DQVII not to their liking.

    Since the series stayed mostly under the radar, I know most of the people I've asked didn't realize there were more than one until VII came out, the fact that the only two games they've tried were both "behind the line" from their perspective is surely not going to help the game stateside.

    Regardless, I personally can't wait to play any future releases. This series has been one of my favorites. I quite like the gameplay (and for some reason, Drakees are my favorite critter of all time.)

    1. Re:My thoughts by cgenman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ahh... Memories.

      Don't forget, though, that Dragon Warrior was quite popular on the NES. I, II, III, and IV all made it to the cover of Nintendo Power, had good sales (except IV), and created fond memories. Dragon Warrior 1 is most console people's first RPG, and is still copied to this day on smaller devices. But the NES is where U.S. Dragon Warrior sat for many years. While Final Fantasy 2 never came out for the NES (I had a pre-order. Sigh), it did make two large splashes on the 16 bit generation, and three on the 32 bit systems.

      Dragon Warrior, on the other hand, was conspicuously absent after the NES. With absolutely nothing on the SNES, and a title snuck in at the end of the Playstation's lifetime, there was little to really keep the series fresh in player's minds. To them, Dragon Warrior was an old outdated game that had been done a million times before, and a million times better. They waited too long to do a sequel, but not long enough that it could be considered new again.

      Now I need to whip out the old emulator and find a copy of DQ IV.

      I personally love Gold Golems, but Drakees were adorable.

      --
      The ______ Agenda
  6. DQ/DW's popularity by Pluvius · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Dragon Quest VII went on to sell more copies than any other PSOne game in Japan ever. By contrast, Dragon Warrior VII, and the Dragon Warrior series, has never attained more than a small but loyal cult following in the US.

    That's probably because the DQ/DW series is about a decade behind the times. I'm not just talking about graphics, either. Fighting the hordes of palette-swapped enemies that DQ subjects you to with the limited amount of innovation that the DQ series has just isn't all that fun anymore.

    Rob

    1. Re:DQ/DW's popularity by BackwardEngineer · · Score: 1

      So what exactly is it behind the times in? Since you aren't talking about graphics and all you used as an example is graphics? Maybe I'm just lost though.

      And have you actually played any of the Super Famicom releases of the Dragon Warrior series?

    2. Re:DQ/DW's popularity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His post wasn't about graphics, it was about the general lazy half-ass way the game is put together symbolized perfectle with the palette swap. BTW I liked the old ones, but DWVII made DWI look advanced. The odd mix of 2d and 3d made DWI seem to have better graphics even. DWI had a better story AND better gameplay on top of that

    3. Re:DQ/DW's popularity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I just love that when you got to the head honcho, the source of all evil in the world, he'd as you to join him, and you could say yes. Of course he'd say, "Really!?" Which I think is the hallmark of a really badass supervillain. In fact, the more I think bout it, the more I wish The Empire Strikes Back ended that way.

    4. Re:DQ/DW's popularity by Pluvius · · Score: 1

      And have you actually played any of the Super Famicom releases of the Dragon Warrior series?

      Yeah, both of them. They're better than the first four, but that's to be expected by technological advances. Compare DQ6 to contemporary games like Final Fantasy 6 or Chrono Trigger and it falls short.

      Rob

    5. Re:DQ/DW's popularity by TRACK-YOUR-POSITION · · Score: 1
      I've gotta join the chorus here--the old NES Dragon Warriors are awesome, though I confess to never playing any Super Famicom DQs. But Dragon Warrior VII on PS1 is, well, bad. The story, the dialogue, the action--all of it is really mind numbingly boring.

      The graphics are bland but sufficient--but you can't look beyond the graphics to see a good game, because they forgot to make a good game.

      It amazes me that it was the best selling psone game in Japan--surely they were as disappointed with the title as I was when I got home?

    6. Re:DQ/DW's popularity by BackwardEngineer · · Score: 1

      Personally, I thought it was a pretty good game. Just that I haven't been able to find it since i joined and subsquently left the Navy. Just because it wasn't totally mind-boggling awesome, doesn't mean it BAD. I have played many a RPG that were more lackluster than Dragon Warrior VII. Final Fantasy Mystic Quest come to mind?

      How much of the game did you play? If you played all the way through, sure I can see how you can say the story was lackluster.

      I'll agree with everyone else, the first four Dragon Warriors were awesome, and I am very proud to say that I own each of their respective carts and I play them when I have the down time from college. I'll also admit that I have played the translate ROM of V and the partially translated ROM of VI, courtesy of Parital Translations and DeJap. Also, great games. Beautiful graphics, lush story.

      However, seeing a generation of people who have grown up in Square's immense Final Fantasy universe and used to those games, battle system, graphics, etc... Enix presented those same things in a different format that is truly different from Final Fantasy.

      Honestly, when you compare Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, it's just like comparing apples and oranges. Like for instance, Suikoden and Final Fantasy. Two great games, but their mechanics, graphics, stories and etc... are totally different. I know someone who hates Final Fantasy , but totally drools over Suikoden I-III.

    7. Re:DQ/DW's popularity by MMaestro · · Score: 1
      Fighting the hordes of palette-swapped enemies that DQ subjects you to with the limited amount of innovation that the DQ series has just isn't all that fun anymore.

      As far as I was concerned with the early Dragon Warrior/Quest games (I played 1-4 on the NES) the game was never about innovation but about telling a storyline that did sound like something out of a 9 year old kid's book report.

      The Final Fantasy series hasn't done much innovation in comparison either. Sure they've tried all sorts of different ideas (Materia, Draw system, Abilites from items, Sphere system, etc) but those were all just hit-or-miss experiments since they've never reused them. 'Innovation' is a very, very strong word. Granted the DQ/DW are no independently developed games when it comes to trying new things, but it has had its moments. (DW/DQ 3 hiring system and 4's viewing of the storyline from different characters were the best IMO. At least given the time.)

    8. Re:DQ/DW's popularity by Zangief · · Score: 1

      I would join you saying that DQ5 was somewhat bland, but, have you played DQ6? It was amazing. The amount of subgames and sidequests is superior to any game in his era. The gameplay was very balanced, and it incorpored a great topology (there were two parallel worlds, which were connected in some points, ala A Link to The Past).

      DQ6 is at least as good as Chrono Trigger or FF6.

  7. We better get it here. by josh+glaser · · Score: 1

    I really hope that we get the DQV remake here. I still haven't forgiven the Enix half of SE for *almost* bringing the PS1 DQIV remake here - and then cancelling it at the last minute. ARRGH!!!

  8. Anime by kurisudes · · Score: 1

    Part of the loyalty comes from there being anime based on the series. I recently bumped into someone that is outspokenly anti-gaming but would spend hours playing dragon quest because "??????????"

    --
    --------------------------------- Born Again Bourne Again Believer: New Life, GNU/Linux Be Free!
  9. Obscurity is not the issue. by metroid+composite · · Score: 2, Informative
    Say what you will, but collecting from 26 raters on the RPGDL forums who had played an average of 53 (mostly console-style) RPGs each, Dragon Warrior RPGs are regarded as fairly average at best (with the exception of the DW4 remake on the PSX which very few had played). I've certainly heard suggested that Dragon Warriors are just generally mediocre games (yet inexplicably popular in Japan; like how Pokemon Snap sold well for some odd reason). It's also may just fit Japanese culture better. I'll repost an old version of the list now (most easily accessible to me on this computer). There's a few mistakes, as this older document was never recompiled, but close enough....

    A few things to note about this list:
    1. it is in no way cannon; a few people admitted that they have odd taste. This was what one group of people enjoyed more on average.
    2. Games that a lot of people have played will end up closer to average in general. I've tossed all games with less than two raters, because those just end up fairly random.
    3. Games that are on here are things which people decided to rate. Nobody considered Zelda a Console-style RPG; sorry to disappoint those who insist otherwise. Star Control 2 was briefly here and kicking butt, but the raters decided not to include it in their revised lists.

    Rank. Game Name: standard deviations (Number of people who rated) (systems on which it has appeared)

    1. Disgaea: 1.28 (5)(PS2)
    2. Brigandine: 1.26 (7)(Playstation)
    3. Final Fantasy Tactics: 1.17 (25)(Playstation)
    4. Suikoden 2: 1.07 (21)(Playstation)
    5. Paper Mario: 0.97 (7)(N64)
    6. Suikoden 3: 1.02 (18)(PS2)
    7. Rhapsody: 0.96 (3)(Playstation)
    8. Final Fantasy 6: 0.93 (24)(SNES, Playstation)
    9. Tales of Phantasia: 0.88 (10)(SNES(JP), GB/C(JP), Playstation(JP), GBA(JP))
    10. Final Fantasy X: 0.84 (19)(PS2)
    11. Phantasy Star 4: 0.7 (16)(Genesis)
    12. Koudelka: 0.68 (8)(Playstation)
    13. Xenosaga: 0.64 (16)(PS2)
    14. Seiken Densetsu 3: 0.58 (12)(SNES(JP))
    15. Chrono Trigger: 0.56 (24)(SNES, Playstation)
    16. Skies of Arcadia: 0.58 (6)(DC, GCN)
    17. Shadow Hearts: 0.56 (17)(PS2)
    18. Breath of Fire 5: 0.69 (7)(PS2)
    19. Xenogears: 0.55 (23)(Playstation)
    20. Valkyrie Profile: 0.53 (23)(Playstation)
    21. Final Fantasy 3: 0.53 (11)(NES(JP))
    22. Threads of Fate: 0.5 (5)(Playstation)
    23. Seiken Densetsu 1 (=FFA): 0.49 (4)(GB/C)
    24. Final Fantasy Legend 2: 0.2 (3)(GB/C)
    25. Ogre Battle 64: 0.48 (5)(N64)
    26. Final Fantasy 4: 0.41 (24)(SNES, Playstation)
    27. Tactics Ogre: 0.42 (7)(SNES(JP), Playstation, Sat(JP))
    28. Tales of Eternia: 0.4 (11)(Playstation)
    29. Grandia2: 0.36 (14)(DC, PS2, PC)
    30. Breath of Fire 4: 0.39 (16)(Playstation, PC)
    31. SaGa Frontier: 0.32 (12)(Playstation)
    32. Live a Live: 0.33 (6)(SNES)
    33. Final Fantasy 7: 0.33 (25)(Playstation)
    34. Persona 2: 0.31 (5)(Playstation)
    35. Lunar 2: Eeternal Blue Complete: 0.31 (18)(Playstation, Sat(JP), SCD)
    36. Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete: 0.29 (17)(Playstation, Sat(JP), GBA, SCD)
    37. Pokemon R/B/Y: 0.17 (13)(GB/C)
    38. Ogre Battle: 0.27 (10)(SNES, Playstation, Sat(JP))
    39. Wild ARMs 3: 0.27 (13)(PS2)
    40. Sailor Moon: Another Story: 0.24 (6)(SNES(JP))
    41. Earthbound: 0.24 (11)(SNES)
    42. Suikoden: 0.21 (22)(Playstation)
    43. Shadowrun: 0.2 (3)(SNES)
    44. Arc the Lad: Twilight of the Spirits: 0.19 (7)(PS2)
    45. Lufia2: 0.21 (19)(SNES)
    46. Vanguard Bandits: 0.17 (3)(Playstation)
    47. Legend of Legaia 2: 0.16 (6)(PS2)
    48. Azure Dreams: 0.13 (3)(Playstation)
    49. Alundra: 0.11 (3)(Playstation)
    50. Bahamut Lagoon: 0.16 (6)(SNES)
    51. Shining Force 2: 0.06 (14)(Genesis)
    52. Persona: 0.06 (6)(Playstation)
    53. Pokemon G/S/C: -0.2 (5)(GB/C)
    54. Front Mission 3: 0.02 (6)(Playstation)
    55. Dragon Warrior 4: 0.02 (11)(NES, Playstation(JP))
    56. Tales of Destiny: 0.06 (11)(Playstation)
    57. Wild ARMs 1: 0.01 (16)(Playstation)
    58. Vandal

    1. Re:Obscurity is not the issue. by geminidomino · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Uh huh... So the majority of people rated Final Fantasy X trash above DW/DQ. The majority also uses windows on their PCs. No one says the Majority has to be right.

      People love to comment about the "Lack of innovation" in the DQ line, especially compared to FF. I always found that amusing since FF was a knockoff.

      Aside: The original "Final Fantasy" was so named because Square was on the verge of ceasing to exist, and it was going to be their last game. At the time, DQ was kicking major ass in Japan, so they copied that. It did so well it saved them and started an awesome series (until FF7 changed the format, at least).

      What kind of "innovations" do these people want? Pretty eye candy? Mind-numbing teen-drama storylines? Vapid characters? Oh, I know... hours and hours of inane mini-games that have nothing to do with the game in general, but they tend to distract the current crop of ADD-infected gamers.

      If they do to DW8 what they did to FF, I'm done. I have 5 of the first 6 Final Fantasies (except FF3) on PS re-release, and DW on emulators. Not to mention other GOOD rpgs, like Lunar, Vay, Beyond the Beyond, Xenogears... etc..

    2. Re:Obscurity is not the issue. by metroid+composite · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Uh huh... So the majority of people rated Final Fantasy X trash above DW/DQ. The majority also uses windows on their PCs. No one says the Majority has to be right.

      Actually the first set of people who played FFX called it trash, and the rest avoided it for a while; when they finally did play it they were mostly impressed; FFX's sphere grid is something that hasn't been done before, the characters have strong personalities, and the music is quite good. Overall the remaining group of haters still pulls it down a few notches but it has strong redeeming qualities.

      What kind of "innovations" do these people want? Pretty eye candy?

      Not according to this list because Brigandine and Koudelka are two of the highest-rated here, and Xenogears isn't far off. Tell me those games have good graphics.

      Mind-numbing teen-drama storylines?

      The games that get praised for their storylines (at least in this group) are more along the lines of Xenogears, Koudelka, FFT, Suikoden 2....

      Vapid characters?

      You should see how badly people bash Justin (Grandia) and Rinoa (FF8).

      Oh, I know... hours and hours of inane mini-games that have nothing to do with the game in general, but they tend to distract the current crop of ADD-infected gamers.

      FFT has none (removed when ported from Japan, thank goodness). I didn't see any in the parts of Brigandine I played. None in FF6 from what I've played so far.

      Not to mention other GOOD rpgs, like Lunar, Vay, Beyond the Beyond, Xenogears... etc..

      I personally regard Lunar as an uninnovative rehash and not really worthwhie, but that's just me. Can't really comment on BtB or Vay having not played them, though.

      People love to comment about the "Lack of innovation" in the DQ line, especially compared to FF. I always found that amusing since FF was a knockoff.

      Your point? Should we only buy fighting games from Capcom? (Was Capcom even the first?) Should we only buy platform games from...was Activision's Pitfall the first one? *three* Dragon Warriors and even Phantasy Star came out in North America before a single Final Fantasy; you can't claim FF was the first series to be ported giving it some sort of "unfair advantage".

    3. Re:Obscurity is not the issue. by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Actually the first set of people who played FFX called it trash, and the rest avoided it for a while; when they finally did play it they were mostly impressed; FFX's sphere grid is something that hasn't been done before, the characters have strong personalities, and the music is quite good. Overall the remaining group of haters still pulls it down a few notches but it has strong redeeming qualities

      Having played through it (twice, gods help me) I will admit it does have SOME redeeming qualities (the voice overs, for example.) The sphere grid wasn't one of them, IMNSHO.

      Not according to this list because Brigandine and Koudelka are two of the highest-rated here, and Xenogears isn't far off. Tell me those games have good graphics.

      Well *I* liked Xenogears graphics. ;) It's a valid point, but I submit that those games were probably rated by fans (by fans, I mean the kind of fans who played Final Fantasy 1-6 *BEFORE* FF7 came out... the "niche" fans) since I've never really seen them hyped into the mainstream

      The games that get praised for their storylines (at least in this group) are more along the lines of Xenogears, Koudelka, FFT, Suikoden 2....

      Generally the ones making the "innovation" rants are the FF fanboys. Final Fantasy has become "The Simpsons" of RPGs. (You can't make a new "cartoon sitcom", a la family guy, without it being compared to the Simpsons).

      FFT has none (removed when ported from Japan, thank goodness). I didn't see any in the parts of Brigandine I played. None in FF6 from what I've played so far.

      Nope, none in FF6, and it's an awesome game, isn't it? ;) The closest FFT came was the sidequest to find Cloud, but yeah, no minigames. FF6 is the way FF games SHOULD be, IMNSHOSO[0].

      I personally regard Lunar as an uninnovative rehash and not really worthwhie, but that's just me. Can't really comment on BtB or Vay having not played them, though.

      I liked the character depth in them. I tend to play RPGs more like an interactive story than a game (which so many people complain about), but, to steal your quote "that's just me." ;). Vay was a cool little RPG from the SegaCD games by Working Designs, hyped greatly in SegaCD circles for it's TWENTY MINUTES of voice-overs! BtB was a simple little game in the old DW style (lots of level grinding, big mazes, etc...) but was still fun.

      Your point? Should we only buy fighting games from Capcom? (Was Capcom even the first?) Should we only buy platform games from...was Activision's Pitfall the first one? *three* Dragon Warriors and even Phantasy Star came out in North America before a single Final Fantasy; you can't claim FF was the first series to be ported giving it some sort of "unfair advantage"

      Actually, that WAS my point. The FF fanboys love to claim everything is a ripoff (see "The Simpsons" comment above) even though DW, PS, and Ultima were the huge RPGs (as huge as RPGs have ever been able to be, at least) before Square was a gleam in Square's eye. It never had a real advantage until it moved to the PSX, added pretty graphics, lots of minigames, and a main character whose backstory had holes you could drive Setzer's Blackjack through.

      [0]In my not-so-humble old-school opinion

    4. Re:Obscurity is not the issue. by metroid+composite · · Score: 1
      Well *I* liked Xenogears graphics. ;) It's a valid point, but I submit that those games were probably rated by fans (by fans, I mean the kind of fans who played Final Fantasy 1-6 *BEFORE* FF7 came out... the "niche" fans) since I've never really seen them hyped into the mainstream

      In general, yes this is a reasonably "hardcore" group, though nobody was restricted from rating so there was a mixture (I'm a latecommer to the genre myself).

      Nope, none in FF6, and it's an awesome game, isn't it? ;)

      Indeed!

      I liked the character depth in them. I tend to play RPGs more like an interactive story than a game (which so many people complain about), but, to steal your quote "that's just me." ;).

      Well...thing is it's not like Lunar is the only game with character depth, or with entertaining characters (though Mystere is downright awesome). Still, I can think of a number of games where I liked the characters more (Koudelka, Suikoden 2, Valkyrie Profile, Wild ARMs 2 (okay, so those last two are more quirks of mine...)).

      BtB was a simple little game in the old DW style (lots of level grinding, big mazes, etc...) but was still fun.

      The sad thing about internet culture is that somehow BtB got associated with "worst RPG". From my research of it...it looks kind of interesting, but certainly not an easy game...which is probably what turns people off (people like their easy stuff).

      It never had a real advantage until it moved to the PSX, added pretty graphics, lots of minigames, and a main character whose backstory had holes you could drive Setzer's Blackjack through.

      You're not quite right here. Sales-wise, FF6 outsold previous RPGs; Chrono Trigger outsold FF6; Super Mario RPG outsold CT (for a while anyway). There was plenty of buildup to FF7. Granted, it got more attention for being an early PSX title (early titles getting extra attention in general; look at Super Monkey Ball and Halo; two games that would not have gotten much attention at the end of a console's life). It also advertized using FMVs, and people didn't figure that out. In addition, I certainly knew vaguely about the previous FFs on the SNES, but knew them as FF II and FF III, so this seemed like a half-decade jump into the future.

      ...Not that I actually bought FF7 at the time (still haven't finished, actually, which...I feel I should for historical value) but RPGs, and Squaresoft in particular, had been building in popularity for about four years. The mass-marketing campaing boosted by ridiculous amounts of misinformation helped, of course....

    5. Re:Obscurity is not the issue. by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1

      The sad thing about internet culture is that somehow BtB got associated with "worst RPG". From my research of it...it looks kind of interesting, but certainly not an easy game...which is probably what turns people off (people like their easy stuff).

      Being both an "old school" console RPGer and someone who has played BtB, I'll comment...

      It's a kind of game that was released after its time. It's a *lot* of level grind and there's not much more to it.

      There was a time when you could release an RPG with a ton of fairly mindless random-encounter-bashing required to get enough money/experience to get through the next part of the game. That kind of game doesn't really sell in a RPG game anymore -- if anything, that kind of crowd has migrated to the MMORPG genre.

      You could say that speaks of a lack of patience or immaturity among today's RPG players, but I don't think that's true. It's more that they've come to (rightly) expect more from a game. Nobody wants to play an RPG anymore that, if you could enter a cheat code to get infinite experience or cash, you could finish in an hour or two because there just isn't that much to it. They expect a game that's long in terms of story and things to do, not level grind.

    6. Re:Obscurity is not the issue. by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      There was a time when you could release an RPG with a ton of fairly mindless random-encounter-bashing required to get enough money/experience to get through the next part of the game. That kind of game doesn't really sell in a RPG game anymore -- if anything, that kind of crowd has migrated to the MMORPG genre.

      I love to mock those MMORPG players, paying monthly subscriptions just to level-grind. XD

  10. Never understood why it didn't catch on. by DroopyStonx · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Back in the days of the NES, the only good RPGs were Final Fantasy and the Dragon Warrior series.

    Final Fantasy was cool and all, but... compared to games like Dragon Warrior 3 and 4, it didn't stand a change. Those games were HUGE, chock-full of dungeons, monsters, stories with twists and turns, hidden quests, and more.

    Not only that, but the Final Fantasy games were pretty short (the early sequels, anyway). Aside from the first, the DW games were LONG. I think DW7 was the longest clocking in at at least 100 hours.

    It might not've had the fancy backdrops/cutscenes like FF7/8/9 had, but that was probably the BEST RPG I ever played for PSX.. just because it was so true to its roots.

    Why the series never caught on is beyond me.

    What's even more strange is the amount of people who are hardcore RPG fans who have NEVER played a single Dragon Warrior game. That is just insane. That's like being a Quake/Unreal fanatic without ever having played Wolfenstein 3D.

    What also irritates me is that these companies think there's no market for it when there is. If you already made the game for Japan, how much harder is it to translate the text and ship it to the US for those who want it?

    We've been jacked out of tons of great games because of this.. like the Mother series. Earthbound was the only release the USA ever had of it. Final Fantasy V never saw the light of day till the Anthology was released. FFII didn't have a US release until not even a year ago! (April 9, 2003). What about FF3?

    Square definitely found a nice niche in the market for porting the unreleased games. I was disappointed to find out that Enix never considered it, but after Squaresoft bought Enix, it looks like it's becoming a reality.

    While remakes are good, I'd be happier than hell to even play the ORIGINAL games ported to PSone/2. It kinda sucks to play the translated versions through an emulator.

    --
    We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
  11. Dragon Warrior is steak, not calamari sorrento by MachDelta · · Score: 1

    Certified Dragon Warrior nut here. DW1 was the first NES RPG i'd ever played, and I loved it to death. After discovering it had sequals, I rented 2, 3, and 4 (several times, each) and played them to death. I loved DW4 so much (with its chaptered story that let you see the world from 5 different angles) that I bought it too. Later down the line, I scraped up some ROMs and translations for DQ5 and 6.
    I've loved them all. The funny thing is though, whenever I fire up a DW/DQ game, i'm never looking for innovation. I don't care about the graphics, and I don't want to deal with some stupid new battle system or other gimmick. I just want to play. And play and play and play untill my eyes bleed.

    I think the best way I can explain it, in my opinion, is like food. Everyone loves fancy restaurants. They love the fancy lighting and expensive china and their cute little foreign dishes that consist of some strange new sea creature drizzled in an equally mysterious sauce. Which is fine, I guess. You're looking for something new, something fancy, something innovative - thats great. I'm always digging around for creative and innovative RPGs.
    ...But not with DQ. I'm from Texas North (Alberta, Canada), so to me, DQ is like walking into a steakhouse. I sit my ass down on some worn and beat up but familiar chair. I order, and the 3-toothed waitress brings me my Dragon Quest: A big fuckin 72 oz slab of beef so tender you could cut it with a fork. A baked potato on the side, a tall frosty one, and you're all set. It may not be fancy, it may not be new and exciting... but every single bite is perfect, and it takes you two hours to finish the thing (the meal, not the game :P).

    That, to me, is Dragon Quest. I've been a gamer and RPG nut for years. I can go without an RPG for long stretches of time, but every so often, I get a huge craving for one. And i've tried all the new fancies and the hot games and the whatnot... Final Fantasy and Baldurs Gate, etc etc etc. But nothing satisfies my craving like Dragon Quest. Nothing even comes close to the feeling of sinking your teeth into a game so rich and deep, it should probably be buried in a spanish galleon somewhere. Thats what DQ is all about. Substance, not flair. If the "graphics aren't everything!" crowd ever needed a poster boy, it would be DQ. Thats why you see the difference between Japan and North America. Not because the Japaneese are insane or just weird, but because they recognize the series for what it is. Sadly, American attention spans aren't quite long enough for a RPG like Dragon Quest to thrive here... hence the whole FF thing obsession and lack of DQ. But true fans of the series know what its about, no matter what the "general populace" says.

    So go on... have all the exotic dishes you want. But a small group of us in the corner is ALWAYS gonna just be sitting there enjoying our perfect steak. Maybe you could come join us some time. :)

  12. Dragon Warrior 1-3... by samsmithnz · · Score: 1

    Were the orginal games on the NES? I think I might have played DW3 on the NES which was a fantastic 80's RPG... I'd play a ps2 version.

    1. Re:Dragon Warrior 1-3... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dragon Warrior I to IV were all for the NES, and came out in North America. Dragon Warrior I to III also made it on the SNES (only in Japan), then on the GameBoy Color as full remakes. DWIII for the GBC is especially impressive to look at and play.

  13. about japanese rpgs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    dragon quest is considered more as a interactive manga rather than a rpg.
    A lot is lost during the translation to english.
    just imagine a simpson's like dialogue and events in a sword and sorcery world with a nice flow of music will be what dq really is.
    sadly, most translation are done with respect to cartoons(tmnt,etc) rather than say simpsons or warner bros animations etc.