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Red Hat Recap

We have some assorted Red Hat stories which can be - and in fact already have been - jumbled together for your reading pleasure, like a sort of literary succotash. Forbes has an accusatory piece about Red Hat's licensing model, which is apparently, err, Microsoft-esque. Red Hat reminds everyone that RH9 is not going to be officially supported for much longer. Internetnews.com has a brief interview with Red Hat's CEO.

10 of 359 comments (clear)

  1. What, no editorial? by Nugget · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I'm disappointed in michael. I would have expected more invective. When I pointed this out last June he took the opportunity to taint the article with inflammatory and inaccurate editorial making it sound like I didn't know what I was talking about. Now I guess I've been vindicated by Forbes and the article gets no such coloring from the slashdot editors.

    How can we accept Red Hat's per-seat pricing and overbearing EULAs that allow them to audit user sites for license compliance? Why does Red Hat get a free pass from the community and from the FSF for constricting our freedom as badly as Microsoft ever has?

    Rick Carey speaks the truth. Red Hat is no more a "Free" choice than Microsoft is.

    1. Re:What, no editorial? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They don't place any restrictions on your right to redistribute GPL software. They don't place any restrictions on your right to receive source for the GPL software they provide to you. The only thing they place restrictions on is the terms on which they will proivide you with support services. That's it.

      Now, tell me how they do violate the GPL.

  2. Worried about Paying Anything! by Herkum01 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Talk about a bunch of BS. RedHat wants to charge for support for the OS. Now Carey does not want to buy Linux but would rather go with Windows. So pay Microsoft for a license and then hire your staff for support to address the problems that Microsoft did not fix. Or use Linux and pay Redhat to support the OS and not pay any licenses, or not pay RedHat and hire your own staff. Either way you are not paying for a license to Redhat and you are paying for support for both products so it seems like Linux is still a winner.

  3. Re:Can't recommend RHAT to customers these days... by AKnightCowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Red Hat is now three separate moving targets: fedora
    rhel
    rh9

    Not really. RH9 is irrelevent next month and I think it's been made pretty obvious that Fedora is the unstable beta development branch that feeds into RHEL and you use it at your own risk with zero support. Red Hat's only product is Red Hat Enterprise Linux. If you're a home user then they're pretty much telling you to go use some other distribution. Mandrake would be the most logical choice for former home Red Hat users, but they should give Debian a try as well.

    With all that in mind, our group decided to stick with Red Hat and purchased the 20 WS licenses and a couple ES licenses for our machines. I can't say I'm particularly impressed with RHEL so far. The lack of packages that used to even be in RH 9 is amazing. They don't even include xcdroast anymore so I'm kind of at a loss as to how I'm going to burn CDs until I can get it to compile from source (I'm having trouble with that for some reason). I also love how they leave out several packages like dhcp and openldap-servers from WS and expect you to buy the much much more expensive ES brand to get them. Not a big deal since you can still just download the server packages you need from the ES channel, although it probably won't auto-update through RHN. All-in-all, an incredibly lackluster product. If we didn't insist on "commercial support" I'd have just went with Debian.

  4. Per-Seat pricing is fine. by The+Monster · · Score: 5, Insightful
    How can we accept Red Hat's per-seat pricing and overbearing EULAs that allow them to audit user sites for license compliance?
    The article itself says why, although it mocks the reasoning.
    But Red Hat claims Enterprise Linux is still free--because customers are being charged for support, not for the software itself (ahem).
    For years, we FOSS advocates have said
    You can give away the software and make your money on the support.
    RH is doing exactly that. Anyone who wants a copy of the software can have it, free as in beer and speech. They can hire anyone they want for support, whether in-house or outsourced, under mutually agreed terms. What they can't do is make a deal for RH to support a 20-user shop, and then pile on 30 more users for free. Letting your customers take advantage of you is not the way to make money.

    Maybe my perspective is different on this because I make my living in the Support department of a company that sells support contracts that ultimately pay for me. I tend to be frustrated by our Sales and Implementation departments driving things under The Manufacturing Delusion, more interested in 'making the sale' than creating an environment that offers our customers an ongoing service. Lately I've seen signs to suggest we might be turning that around, though.

    --

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  5. Two simple targets by Alan+Cox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Fedora - this is what RH was before it got tangled up in retail and other things that slowed it down. Its regular releases, new toys and akin to RH5, RH6, RH7, etc

    RHEL - business oriented product with Red Hat support and with certifications and testing guarantees for things like Oracle. In order to b e supportable it handles less hardware, contains less packages and picks more conserative ones, as well as having a long lifetime.

    I've not found many businesses have problems untangling this. but some of the non business folks got a little baffled or still don't realise that
    a) FC1 updates RH9 fine
    b) FC is exactly what old RHL (7.x etc) was about.

  6. Loss leaders by IGnatius+T+Foobar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think Red Hat has seriously underestimated the importance of their loss leader (the series of low-end boxed sets ending with RH9). Fedora is a step in the right direction, but it has a beta-quality feel to it that turned this long-time Red Hat user off to it.

    I'm in the market for another distro right now -- something that would not have happened if there were such a thing as RHL 10. So what's it going to be? SuSE? White Box Linux? Something else? Hopefully I'll have that answer in a couple of months. It's not going to be Fedora, and I've got too many customers that aren't willing to pay the premium for RHEL.

    They've shot themselves in the foot. RHL was an important loss leader that established the brand. People were familiar with RHL, so they were eager to buy RHEL. Without the low end product, where do you build your market from? People who are just getting started with Linux now, might just install SuSE since there's no RHL. And when they're ready to step up, those big bucks are going to go to Novell, not Red Hat.

    It's a shame that success has blinded Red Hat to the realities of the marketplace. They are ready to pretend to be Microsoft, but reality says that RH ain't Microsoft. The users aren't locked in and they will move if they feel they're being screwed with.

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  7. Re:$179? No problem. by Haeleth · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because almost everything Redhat packages is free. There is no reason I should pay $179 USD for a product that should essentially be without cost.

    If the $179 isn't paying for anything, then use Fedora; if Fedora isn't good enough, then the $179 must be paying for something worth having. You can't have it both ways.

  8. Daniel Lyons Article by Xenographic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is another Daniel Lyons article.

    Daniel Lyons is an idiot. He does no research whatsoever, as far as I can tell. He wrote a piece on Groklaw that consisted of reading PJ's (inaccurate, to protect her privacy) whois information on her domain and accusing her of working for IBM simply because IBM has an office in that city (the irony being that she doesn't actually live there...).

    To support his arguements, he quoted random trolls. I don't remember offhand if they were from Yahoo or Slashdot, but it doesn't matter and I mention this simply to give you some idea of how little thought this man puts into his pieces.

    In short, the proper response to an idiotic article like this is simply to consider the source, and then ignore it. Save, of course, that I reccomend to everyone who might care that they never subscribe to Forbes because their research is shoddy, and I can prove it with respect to these stories.

    At least Didio seemed to finally wake up when last she commented on SCO, only to stop commenting on it (at least, so far as I have seen as of this writing). Lyons, however, seems to have gotten upset when it became clear to anyone following the SCO story that he had done no research, and is thus personally invested in the story at this point. That is the only explanation I can give for his incredibly infantile and poorly reserached article on PJ, which was, ironically motivated by her comments that he needed to do better research...

    So then, it is clear that Forbes' editors are prone to letting poorly researched crap past them (assuming they actually do any sort of editorial review over Lyons to begin with), and that the entire publication should be considered suspect until such time as they can demonstrate better research skills, not to mention a higher level of maturity.

    Frankly, to me, Lyons is nothing more than a troll who uses a spell checker and has wider readership. My primary uses for his article consist entierly of a meager amount of comedic value and source material to have printed on novelty toilet paper. I should hope that no one ever decides to challenge that as fair use, because I would have too much amusement in creating bad puns with the acronym IP... ;]

  9. "Lightning rod" by adminispheroid · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From reading a few of Daniel Lyons' recent articles, it is apparent that Forbes is taking pointers from AM talk radio. If, like Rush Limbaugh, you make a lot of outrageous statements and then back them up with flimsy arguments, you get a lot of attention -- a lot more than if you had said something reasonable. And so your site gets slashdotted, and if you're Forbes, that means you make a fortune from your advertisers. In the media, this is called having someone who acts like a "lightning rod". Perhaps this approach is familiar to those on slashdot, where it is called "flamebait".

    Although Linux and open source in general are favorite Daniel Lyons topics, he recently published two incoherent rants trashing Sun. But it's likely he gets a bigger response out of trashing open source, so he'll probably return to that.

    So if you like this kind of trash talk, fine, but if you don't, just do what you do with Rush: stop listening.