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Weapons in Space

SWG_Eddie submits this story about the U.S. military beginning the militarization of space. We've done a few previous stories on this, such as this one. Putting weapons in earth orbit is not forbidden by any treaty or law.

16 of 939 comments (clear)

  1. The bad side of course... by Biotech9 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...is it could be the start of a new cold war, or at least cause some countries to get a little nervous about the U.S.

    Specifically, China.

  2. That's Because by technomancerX · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Putting weapons in earth orbit is not forbidden by any treaty or law.

    That's because we've withdrawn from any treaties that restricted this

    --
    .technomancer
    1. Re:That's Because by meringuoid · · Score: 3, Interesting
      From what I heard, there is only one actual weapon in space right now: it's a pistol aboard the Soyuz escape capsule on the ISS. You never know - might land _way_ off-course.

      Personally, I think it would be nice to keep it that way.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  3. Not forbidden? by jawtheshark · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Putting weapons in earth orbit is not forbidden by any treaty or law.

    Who cares? Even if it were, we all know by now that international treaties and international law are null and void. They can do whatever they please.

    --
    Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
  4. Wrong. by Chess_the_cat · · Score: 5, Interesting
    From a quick Google search: The 1967 Outer Space Treaty, outlawing "the appropriation of space" by any nation, bans orbiting vehicles bearing nuclear weapons. Earliest negotiations between the superpowers on arms limitations, SALT I, resulted in the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty of 1972. The ABM Treaty forbids missile defense shields such as Ronald Reagan's 1983 Star Wars initiative. Likewise, it outlaws the Ballistic Missile Defense boondoggle currently under development. The two space technology programs have cost taxpayers over $100 billion dollars and if pursued, could cost $250 billion more. But Russia says Nyet"to abrogating or amending the ABM Treaty to permit "space defenses."

    Last November, the UN General Assembly reaffirmed the Outer Space Treaty, reserving space for peaceful use only. But the United States abstained from the vote. The region beyond the stratosphere is seen by the Pentagon as a theater of engagement. A 1996 Air Force report predicts "space-based weapons of devastating effectiveness [will] effect very many kills ... This technology [is] advanced at Los Alamos National Lab and other nuclear weapons labs" (Air and Space Power for the 21st Century).

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  5. Didn't Salyut 3 do this first? by jeff.paulsen · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There have been persistent rumors that Salyut-3 had a 23mm autocannon mounted, and occasional denials.

    On another level, any reaction drive is useful as a weapon in proportion to its efficiency, which was the topic of a Larry Niven story some years back.

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    -- Jeff Paulsen
    1. Re:Didn't Salyut 3 do this first? by jeff.paulsen · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Hate to reply to my own post, but I found a reference (it's Wikipedia, but that's something - even if I'm wrong, I'm not the only one):
      Salyut 3 was launched on June 25, 1974. It was another Almaz military space station, this one launched successfully. It tested a wide variety of reconnaissance sensors, returning a canister of film for analysis. On January 24, 1975 trials of the on-board 23mm Nudelmann aircraft cannon (other sources say it was a Nudelmann NR-30 30mm gun) were conducted with positive results at ranges from 3000 m to 500 m. Cosmonauts have confirmed that a target satellite was destroyed in the test. The next day, the station was ordered to deorbit. Only one of the three intended crews successfully boarded and manned the sation, brought by Soyuz 14; Soyuz 15 attempted to bring a second crew but failed to dock. Nevertheless, Salyut 3 was an overall success.
      Also, Astronautix has a couple of inconclusive pictures (the purported gun is in the lower left, and while clearly not axially mounted, is at least aligned with the long axis of the craft): large inconclusive pic zoomed in inconclusive pic. For comparison, here's a good picture of an NR-23 autocannon: Nudelmann-Richter 23mm Cannon.
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      -- Jeff Paulsen
  6. Ronnie Ray-gun. Beam weapons = a waste of money by shoppa · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Most of the money goes to beam weapons of one kind of another. Still (and probably forever) Flash Gordon technology.

    Kinetic energy weapons are probably useful, but testing and re-use are extremely difficult things in the harsh space environment.

    If you have a manned presence in space, the most effective weapon to take out an enemy satellite is probably a shotgun.

  7. Soviet Weapons by Detritus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The Soviets have already deployed offensive weapons in space. A large calibre cannon was included on the Salyut-3 space station. In tests, it is reported to have destroyed a target satellite during testing.

    --
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    1. Re:Soviet Weapons by poobie · · Score: 3, Interesting

      http://astronautix.com/articles/almpart1.htm

      they discuss the mounted cannon at the end of the article.

      Generally accepted to be a Nudelmann 23MM AA gun.

  8. Not exactly. by Shoten · · Score: 3, Interesting

    From the link in the post itself, for the article, which claims to demonstrate that weapons aren't prohibited in any way in space...

    The Outer Space Treaty of 1967, whose 35th anniversary we are commemorating this year, establishes the principles governing peaceful activities of States in outer space. The Treaty bans the orbiting and stationing of nuclear weapons or any other kinds of weapons of mass destruction. It further provides that the Moon and other celestial bodies shall be used exclusively for peaceful purposes and prohibits the establishment of military bases, installations and fortifications, the testing of any kind of weapon and the conduct of military manoeuvres on celestial bodies. These principles were further elaborated by the Moon Treaty of 1979.

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  9. Re:Space Arms by Tango42 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Your state and federal rights apply inside your state and federation, not in space. If international law decides that a craft is governed by it's owners nations laws, then you might have a point, but as far as i know, there are no such laws.

  10. This is necessary by kjdames · · Score: 4, Interesting
    It's a vicious circle - [insert country name here] needs to have this because if we don't, [insert country name here] will.

    Humans are naturally antagonistic. Violence is our nature. Peace is universally sought after, but it is always only a temporarily-reachable goal, because the only way to achieve it is to make the consequences of attacking too severe. Then somebody discovers a way to lessen those consequences, so another "preventative measure" must be found...

    Realize that benefits other than protection will almost certainly come from this as well. Advances in technology, science, etc. will be made.

    --

    Typos... that's just how I role.

  11. "we sell it to our enemies" by Infonaut · · Score: 3, Interesting
    But the real problem is that as soon as we develop something, we sell it to our enemies..

    During the Cold War that was the case, but times have changed. The US military is getting to the point where it is dominated by information systems rather than hardware platforms. The hardware platforms are merely modular components that are the eyes, ears, and fists of the network.

    It's essentially impossible to export an all-encompassing data-driven warfighting structure. The US can still export individual components such as planes and tanks, but even then hardly anyone can afford the most up-to-date American equipment. So yes, we often do face American equipment on the battlefield, but combatting soldiers who wield M-16s and drive M60A3 tanks isn't in the same league as fighting an opponent that has laser-guided munitions, ubiquitous night-fighting capabilities, and GPS down to the squad level.

    If you're worried about our enemies getting a hold of space weaponry, you're barking up the wrong tree. Just remember that our most sophisticated aerial and space reconnaissance equipment hardware has never been sold to anyone, even during the height of the Cold War.

    For fiscal and geopolotical reasons I'm not sure that we need to militarize space, but the argument that such technology will be used against us is a bit far-fetched, given the technology imblance between the US military and the rest of the world.

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  12. Re:Neal Boortz says it best... by escallywag · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Typical US "good guy" syndrome. USians have been brainwashed by their own cultural propaganda machine (Hollywood) to the point where US=good is never questioned.

    Russia, China, US.... guess what, they're all just as bad. The US is NOT the good guy. History has more than proven that regardless of the political and economical structures in place, superpowers inadvertently end up being rules by an elite that will procede to screw over anyone else if they think they can get away with it.

    The only thing that has kept a global nuclear armageddon at bay is the the global nuclear balance with Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) as an inevibility. If the US manages to build an effective (or perceived as effective) ICBM defense the other nuclear powers wil have to follow suit or sooner or later the US will nuke another country because it can, there's nothing there to plunder and it's a lot cheaper than invading.

  13. The physics says... by Iowaguy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When you look at the euqations for the optical properties of metals, all of them do well in reflecting long wavelength light (such as IR or microwave) with near perfection. Foil hat would work great.

    Furthermore, there is only a narrow window where IR light can penetrate into the atmosphere, where water does not adsorb. Condsidering that any fear you have of IR is that the water in your body will get heated, this makes such a weapon silly. If you ignore the window, you have a very notrivial amount of humid atmosphere to do the job for you. Especially if like me, you live in Houston. :)

    I hate to let facts get in the way of fantasy, but thought you would want to know.

    My two cents
    -Iowa

    --
    "He who laughs last, didn't get the joke."-Cap