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Java Evangelist Leaves Sun After MS Settlement
aeoo writes "The Register says that Rich Green, the vice president of developer platforms and the major public voice for Java is 'quitting Sun in disgust' due to the recent settlement between Sun and Microsoft. The article hints that there may be more to follow. On the other hand, there is an article at eWeek with a different slant, saying that Rich Green tendered his resignation prior to the settlement. What impact, if any, will this have on open sourcing Java? It looks like Sun is still considering it."
Having a billion plus dollars of cash infusion should be even more of a reason for Java to take up more Open Source Development and support this nicely flowering community of adept programmers, testers and beneficiaries. However, a sneaky Dogbert spy might infiltrate the contract Sun signed, causing Sun to breach contract if they support Open Source (Microsoft likely didn't do this but it would not surprise me at all if they did, because I've never known Bill Gates to part with any money without getting something in return). Time will indeed tell if this settlement spells doom for Sun's human capitol, although if I'm right about Dogbert, then it likely will result in some really rich seedling startups being formed in wake of Sun's slow demise.
Given the nature of Microsoft's initial intentions (not interoperability, but domination), I would understand his fury. He seems to be a man of his word and put his money where his mouth was - which you have to respect, whether you agreed with him or not, and is more than you can say about MSFT.
Sun became $un.
Can anybody explain to me how somebody quitting over Sun's decision to work with Microsoft actually brings Java closer to being open source? Sorry to burst a bubble, but on the face of it, Sun's getting further from considering that...
Claiming that Green had decided to leave Sun two months agao is not a direct contradiction to the claim that he left over the recently announced settlement with Microsoft. For all well know, the talks leading to that deal could have been going on for months, and Green certainly would have had inside access to how they were going.
However, a Sun spokesperson said Green actually tendered his resignation "long before last week. It was coincidental timing, not related timing."
You mean to say that there was no indication to a top internal person that the decision to accept a 2B payoff was being considered, until exactly when it happened? Almost certainly he agreed to wait until the decision was announced before he quit. The fact that he decided "long before" does not mean it was unrelated...
McNealy finally grew up, and therefore Sun's corporate policy with respect to Microsoft finally grew up. They were fighting a losing battle against the software titan and Linux--and McNealy must have known this for a long time, because the deal recently struck with Microsoft had actually been in the works for a good long while. Corporate contacts were reportedly telling him to grow up, and it looks as if he has, if not in spirit, then at least in practice.
They are a power player and have no intention of fading away, and they have invested far too much in Java to let it fade away either. And regarding Java itself, there are great things that both Sun and Microsoft have done for it (from a purely objective standpoint of programming, this is very true, and if you can't see that, you're blinded by dogma). The agreement between Sun and Microsoft is specifically designed to facilitate interoperability, and of course this includes Java, and Java components and applications.
It may not be the direction some had originally envisioned, but prevalence (or heck, just survival, if you consider worst-case scenarios) in a different form is often a far better outcome than the death of the original due to obstinacy. If Mr. Green is so dedicated to an outmoded cause that he's willing to give up his employment at Sun, well, I'll give him points for principle but none for pragmatism.
I have no illusions that Sun is going to open-source one of its most prized, closely-guarded secrets. They are almost Microsoftian in the protection of certain code. Even Green himself said, "Neither IBM nor Sun knows if it's feasible to fulfill the [open source goal] and meet the constraints." That's not a full-fledged denial, but it definitely represents uncertainty, and Sun's pact with Microsoft has perhaps provided a more secure context in which they can continue to develop and market their proprietary products, now armed with a few new advantages.
The coolest voice ever.
If we want an open source Java, I think the right thing to pursue is Kaffe, gcj, and Gnu CLASSPATH. I would love it if Sun did open source Java and such an action may be the best way to ensure Java's long-term survival, but somehow I have a feeling that Scott and the Sun lawyers won't have the guts or the will to take the risks and do this.
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Create a WAP server
Would be cool if it happened, but does not seem like it. This article actually indicates that Green played a role in brokering the deal -
... ...
In fact, the Santa Clara, Calif.-based company said Green played an essential role in Sun's negotiations with Microsoft to come to last week's 10-year, $1.6 billion deal.
Meanwhile, Sun would not disclose where Green was going, but said the company has held the position "for quite a while" for him. Said one source: "He didn't want to leave until the Microsoft deal was done."
And here is the blurb from the ZDNet article -
A Sun representative said Green was instrumental in brokering the company's legal settlement with Microsoft.
The first article also says that Green is planning on doing a startup. Therefore, whatever it was, Green would have definitely received significant amount of compensation for his role.
Which would mean that, him going renegade and helping start something Opensource based on Java would be quite unlikely. When big sums of money are involved, especially with companies like Microsoft, you can be assured that they would have taken due precautions precisely against this kind of thing - especially since he was supposed to testify against them.
On the other hand, he *might* just rally to make Java Opensource - which I believe, is more likely.
I call dibs.
Already faxed my resume to Sun's HR.
Good question, and it's about time to bring the subject up. On both Slashdot and Groklaw, a lot of people have got the idea in their heads that Sun will now join forces with MS to attack Linux, and yet all of the evidence of Sun's business initiatives suggest exactly the opposite. (I deeply respect PJ's skills in legal research, especially concerning the SCO case, but her post about the Sun/MS settlement was one of the most bizarre tirades I've ever seen. And I just noticed she put up another one today.)
People, where on Earth do you get this idea? As some have already pointed out, Sun is now getting close to the world's largest vendor of a Linux distribution, after the China and Walmart deals, and Linux is a supported platform for all of the Sun software products. From a business perspective, Sun doesn't seem to have much choice but to go with Linux. Back in the bad old days of Internet bubble, when everyone thought that they had a lot of money and that they had to spend a whole lot of it on Sun hardware, life was great in Santa Clara. But for years now, people have been looking for low-cost solutions in both hardware and software, and Sun didn't get it for too long, resulting in huge losses, layoffs, and a steep decline in stock price. They've got to stop the bleeding. Now they're going out of their way to come up with low-cost products, and Linux is a big part of it. What motive could they possibly have to change that now, especially after they just posted losses for the 10th time in 12 quarters?
As for the MS settlement, I have rarely seen such a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't response. Back when Sun filed the suit, there was a chorus of protest at Slashdot, outrage at any attempt to use the courtrooms in any way at all. "Build better products, dammit! They're trying to gain in the courts what they can't get in the market!" Those were the most common mantras. Now Sun has discontinued the suit and collected a settlement, and people in the same forums are responding with -- outrage, all over again! What exactly is Sun expected to do? Were they supposed to draw a trial out as long as possible, through years of appeals?
Moreover, everyone seems to be saying that Sun has capitulated to MS. I am the only one who suspects that it may be the other way around? Sun threatened to sue for over a billion to penalize MS for anti-competitive behavior toward Java. Now they're collecting about 2 billion, and have reached agreements about technical co-operation concerning Java, as well as
Always keep a sapphire in your mind
To ammend then I'll simply add that .NET will be pushed hard in the next months - now that the settlement is made - and now is not the time to stagnate Java by pushing it into OSS limbo for the year it would take for the community to be able to support it.
Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
Two interesting tidbits:2 C00.asp
Sun was one of the few companies that bought a SCO license, and Scott McNealy darkly referred to Open Source as if they were pirates bent on destruction of Intellectual property here: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0%2C3959%2C1209873%
Second, one way to kill Linux as a viable desktop alternative would be to get rid of Star Office or at least make it seem like its support will be limited. Does Sun really care about desktops? Star Office on Linux is being used by many governments around the world as a bludgeon to beat up MS in contract negotiations (why would I pay $500/desktop and up for your software when I can use Star Office on Linux). Even when they don't intend to use Linux, it provides good leverage for getting massive discounts. If Sun can be convinced to get rid of Star Office, that very well could pay M$ back while seriously damaging Linux. I have used both Open Office and Star Office, and neither are MS killers, but Star Office is much more useful and polished.
Huh? What about RMI? What about JNI? Having to find work-arounds for that caused me a few sleepless weeks. I even used "delegate" as a variable in one piece of code that someone else later tried to build with J++ ...!
It's ancient history now, but check this: JavaWorld article.
Dude, the MSJ++ product gratuitously used the extensions. It didn't make it that obvious.
> Sun claimed such features could harm the portability of java. But extending a programming language is not a crime.
It's a breach of contract if you say you won't do it, then do it and stick the other guy's trademark on it. Which is what MS did. They called it "Java". It wasn't Java. Sun own that mark, and IMHO they did the Right Thing in defending what it stands for. And they won that one.
Of course, what was amusing at the time was that Netscape's VM was far less compliant than MS's. But that was because it was so bug-ridden - lots of comments floating around about "malice vs stupidity"... :-)
Go on. Add the JVM to your list of reasons to hate them! You won't be alone...