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New Tool Cracks Apple's FairPlay DRM

goombah99 writes "PlayFair is an integrated utility that removes the DRM from AAC music files protected by Apple's FairPlay encryption. Information is limited, but the source code is on SourceForge.net and it appears to actually remove the encryption itself and not simply hijack the QuickTime audio stream as earlier methods did. The cracking operation can only be done on songs the user has already has valid licenses for and requires either an iPod or a windows computer for key recovery. If you choose to redistribute these songs you will be violating the contract you bought them under: better hope they aren't watermarked or you might end up paying for releasing one in the wild. To me the authors are vandals not revolutionaries, and may have ensured WMA becomes the standard."

39 of 1,126 comments (clear)

  1. Lies by monstroyer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1) My computer, my data, my choice. DRM snake oil providers can deal with it. The future won't tolerate the crap these copywrite perverters are trying to enforce, may as well wake up now before it's too late.

    2) Downloading music does not affect sales. DRM is only there to appease the record industry, still scared shitless that artists can have direct contact with their fans who still provide them with income. This cuts them out as the middleman. Like the landlord of times before us, they will be replaced or burnt to the ground. Again, deal with it.

    3) The previous two paragraphs are both 'revolutionary' premises. Vandals these coders are not.

    1. Re:Lies by seffala · · Score: 5, Funny

      The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.

    2. Re:Lies by Alsee · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You have a license to use it.

      No such thing. Doesnt' exist.

      You can only licence the right to create new copies and derivative copies and to distribute those copies and for public performances. Those are the only licences that exist (at least under US law anyway).

      You don't need any licence at all for any sort of fair use.

      Apple's DRM is pretty benign... They worked out a lot of rights for their customers.

      It doesn't matter WHAT rights that "worked out". The fact is that ALL fair use is perfectly legal and legitimate, and a copyright holder has absolutely no legal right to say squat when I make fair use.

      Unauthorized use and unauthorized copies are perfectly legal and legitimate when they are fair use.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    3. Re:Lies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Whatever. I can play the songs on my Macs, my Dell and my iPod. I can burn CDs and play it in my car, on my stereo, in my portable CD player. Not very restrictive at all. That works for me.
      Great. Sounds like you've found something that is still more restrictive than WMA music, but you're happy with it.

      Besides, I can buy MP3s from anywhere else. Oh wait. Who sells those?

      http://www.magnatune.com/ for starters.

    4. Re:Lies by badasscat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except that it's NOT your data. You have a license to use it.

      Bullshit. If it's on my hard drive, which is a physical platter that I purchased at retail, then it's a physical thing that exists in the real world and it's mine. You're telling me my hard drive is mine but its contents aren't? I don't buy that for a second, whatever some RIAA lackey wants to say to convince me. If it somehow found a way (legally) into my house and onto my hard drive, it belongs to nobody else but me, and as long as I keep it for myself, I'm allowed to do whatever I damn well please with it.

      In fact, DRM exists because copyright holders know this. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a need for DRM! The whole point of DRM is to keep you from doing things you are legally entitled to do as specifically written in copyright law. The RIAA does not like the way copyright law is written so they are doing their best to usurp it with DRM (which they seem to think gains them additional protections under the DMCA that they don't otherwise have under regular old copyright law). I see no problem in breaking DRM in order to exercise my legal rights.

      Now, as for this sob story about WMA becoming a "standard" because of this... I mean really, cry me a river. Neither AAC nor WMA will ever be considered a "standard". The only thing close to a "standard" is MP3 (only because so many people have already ripped their music to it, so every piece of hardware has to support it) and it obviously isn't used for many applications where real compression efficiency or the best absolute sound quality are required. MP3 will always be around - I'm sure not about to re-rip all 2,000 or so CD's I own, and doubt many others will either - so whatever gets declared a "standard" for any specific use doesn't really matter anyway.

      WMA's DRM will be broken in time just as FairPlay apparently has been, in any case. It's the nature of digital data. Anything that's expressed in bits can and will be cracked, so WMA has no advantage here. Eventually these companies will hopefully accept that all DRM is doomed to fail, and just go back to allowing their customers to exercise their rights under the law, as they used to do many years ago.

    5. Re:Lies by geeber · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Amen brother. The problem is in polite conversation (and slashdot too, for that matter) "I know a guy..." trumps statistics every time.

    6. Re:Lies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      The problem is in polite conversation (and slashdot too, for that matter) "I know a guy..." trumps statistics every time.

      That is simply not true. A friend of mine who is a sociologist studied this very phenomenon and found that it didn't exist.

    7. Re:Lies by zcat_NZ · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not 'fair use'; 'unregulated use'

      Fair use relates to things that would have been covered by copyright; derivative works, quoting, etc. They're allowed, even though technically they're a little bit of the 'copying and redistribution' that copyright is supposed to regulate.

      Unregulated use relates to things that have nothing to do with "copying", and should never have been covered. Transfering a work 'I own' into another format, playing a DVD on a non-standard platform, etc. If I bought the work, I should have the right to do anything I want short of making copies and giving them to my friends. Playing DVD's under Linux, converting AAC's into MP3's, etc -should- all be unregulated uses. It's none of the copyright-holders business what I do with the disc after I bought it, unless they can PROVE that I'm redistributing unauthorised copies!

      --
      455fe10422ca29c4933f95052b792ab2
    8. Re:Lies by ncc74656 · · Score: 5, Informative
      So I suppose that you think that just because you purchased a copy of a book you're entiteld to do whatever you want with the contents? Up to and including violating copyright laws?

      Quit yer trolling...who said anything about violating copyright laws? If I'm working on my car and want to refer to some pages out of the shop manual, I'll make a copy of the relevant pages and work from those so the manual doesn't get dirtied up. That is fair use. Another example of fair use is dubbing a CD to tape so I can play it in my car (which doesn't have a CD player). That's also fair use. How, then, is stripping the DRM off an .m4p so I can convert it to Ogg Vorbis for playback on my Palm (an example of format-shifting analogous to the aforementioned CD-to-tape dub) not fair use? It's only copyright infringement if I turn around and put the resulting .m4a files up on $P2P_NETWORK or otherwise distribute them to others.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    9. Re:Lies by Kelson · · Score: 5, Insightful
      If it's on my hard drive, which is a physical platter that I purchased at retail, then it's a physical thing that exists in the real world and it's mine. You're telling me my hard drive is mine but its contents aren't?

      I own a lot of books. The paper, the ink, the glue - I own those, uncontested. I own that instance of the book. I can lend that particular book to a friend, I can sell it to someone, I can throw it in the trash, put it in a barbequeue, whatever. I can take the book down to Kinko's, photocopy it and write all over the photocopies. But if the book is still in copyright, I can't legally give those photocopies to someone else, nor can I legally typeset it, publish a new edition, and start selling it. Even though those words are physical objects in my possession.

      The whole point of DRM is to keep you from doing things you are legally entitled to do as specifically written in copyright law.

      More bull. Companies pushing DRM don't give a damn whether you make copies for yourself, they just want to make sure you don't upload it to the net and share it with a few thousand of your closest friends. And it's easier for them to prevent you from doing anything than it is to only prevent you from handing out free copies everywhere. That's why most DRM is so draconian - not because they want to lock you into only listening in one room, but because they just don't care.

      Apple at least made an effort to compromise.

    10. Re:Lies by Sparks23 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not to further fuel the flames, but it's not quite that straightforward.

      I think part of the problem is that folks are looking at AAC as 'Apple's format.' It's not. AAC -- Advanced Audio Coding -- is an open standard; there's an ISO number for it, and it was come up with by the MPEG standards group. AAC is to MPEG4 what MP3 (MPEG1 Audio Layer 3) was to the original MPEG. AAC itself is quite widely played by software players -- more than just iTunes -- and is more or less the intended successor to MP3. (NOTE: Intended. I make no predictions about whether or not it will actually happen.)

      Where you can point the finger at Apple is on their DRM implementation on top of AAC; that's not part of the AAC specification, and so means that while an un-protected AAC file can play on iTunes, WinAmp, etc., a protected iTunes Music Store one cannot. THIS is a little unfortunate; I'd love to be able to load protected AAC onto my NetMD minidisc player without having to burn it to CD first.

      WMA makes me more nervous as a format, because as far as I know it's controlled by a single entity (Microsoft) instead of an open group (MPEG standards group). However, it can't be discounted that WMA's integration of DRM has made it the more attractive commercial option for folks, since it's possible to make differing players handle the same DRM-protected files.

      Whether or not AAC with some form of DRM will catch on remains to be seen, I guess.

      --
      --Rachel
    11. Re:Lies by DeltaSigma · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But that copy does belong to him if he acquired it legally. If I'm the only occupant in my living space and I have twelve individuals computers comprising an obscene amount of redundant backup storage, and I make twelve freaggin' copies of every piece of data legally acquired by myself, plus a DVD for the television, and a CD for the stereo, it still shouldn't make a lick of difference to musicians, game makers, virtually everyone who creates information for a living, because they succeeded in selling one copy to one consumer.

      End of story, no "ifs" "ands" or "buts" about this license restriction crap.

    12. Re:Lies by Alsee · · Score: 5, Interesting

      US CODE TITLE 17 CHAPTER 1 Sec. 106. - Exclusive rights in copyrighted works grants six exclusive rights to copyright holders, but they really only amount to 3 different rights. The right to make copies, the right to distribute copies, and public performance.

      Those are the ONLY rights a copyright holder has available to licence to anyone. If he isn't granting one or more of those rights then he isn't licencing anything.

      US CODE TITLE 17 CHAPTER 1 Sec. 107. - Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use says it is not infringment to make fair use, thus you don't need any licence at all to make fair use. It gives a non-exhaustive list of examples of fair use. It gives a non-exhaustive list of factors to consider in determining fair use.

      And rather signifigantly, fair use rights are NOT granted by that law. If you check the congressional record they specificly stated that we already had fair use rights and that that law was merely an attempt to write down those existing rights. They specificly said that law was not intended to expand or restrict or alter fair use rights in any way.

      Not only are fair use rights NOT granted or defined or restricted by copyright law, but if you look back at the various supreme court cases mapping out the extent of fair use, the fact is that it's fair use that restricts the extent and reach of copyright. The term "fair use" never even appeared in copyright law before 1976. We had fair use before that, and where fair use treads copyright restrictions are swept away.

      There is no such thing as a "licence to use". Doesn't exist.

      Ordinary "use" rights remain with the public. You don't need any sort of licence to read a book you bought or to play a song you bought.

      As for contracts, I don't know if iTunes even has one, or if it's even valid, or what's in it. But assuming there is, it cannot grant some non-existant "licence to use". The most it could do is attempt to impose a clause against making fair use. And even if it does, and even if it's a valid clause, it would still be strictly a contract issue, not copyright.

      No, I'm not a lawyer, but I HAVE been reading the law and many court cases. You're the one tossing around a "licence to use" with absolutely no basis. I defy you to find it anywhere in US copyright law.

      I will certainly admit the RIAA and MPAA want the law to recognize a "licence to use". I will certainly admit the RIAA and MPAA are putting out a missinformation campaign to convince the public and congress that's what the law already says. If that's what everyone thinks that's what the law says then it becomes very easy to get the law re-written to "fix" the law to actually say that.

      "Licence to use" is a myth, part of a campaign to get copyright law changed.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    13. Re:Lies by plj · · Score: 5, Informative

      For the n^th time, WMP for OS X does not support WMA's DRM scheme. Or, to be a bit more specific, it only supports it's first version, which never became generally used and is now practically obsolete.

      Every online music store out there uses version 2 of WMA's DRM.

      --
      “Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
    14. Re: Lies by cft_128 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      As countless other pointed out, the WMP on Macs does not support v2 of the DRM, not to mention WMP on Macs sucks. Really sucks. Bad UI. Uses up way too much CPU time. With MS adding a 'time bomb' to WMA it's not looking like I'm going to be sending them a lot of love. When I buy music, I want to be able to play it forever. Hopefully market forces will do to this what it has done to previous attempts at this.

      Also of note HP has licensed Apple's iPod, so add one more player to the market. (albeit a iPod clone as far as I can tell). HP will use iTunes so there will still only be one software player, but from what I can tell iTunes wipes the floor with WMP when it comes to managing and playing my music on both my Macs and my PCs.

      You might want to do your own research before accusing others of not doing it.

      --

      Underloved Movies and Pub Quiz: donotquestionme.org

    15. Re:Lies by rampant+mac · · Score: 5, Insightful
      "I wasn't aware the labels were paying the artists a large part of the iTunes income."

      Last time I checked, positive income was better than NO income.

      "Anyone you know getting a check from RIAA?"

      Yes. Me.

      "Artists - don't - get - money - from - labels. Artists PAY labels for the privilege of making money for the labels."

      People - don't - get - money - from - their - employers. Employees sign a contractual agreement that they WILL perform the work assigned to them, or are you not on salary?

      It works both ways...

      --
      I like big butts and I cannot lie.
  2. We can only hope WMA will win! by SeanTobin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wouldn't it be wonderfull once the WMA standard becomes available everywhere? All online music stores will use it because it will be so secure. On-demand video companies will spring up from this new found industry standard. Portable players and home stereo systems will all support it. Every media file on your computer will fall under one standard.

    And then a code monky from Argentina will be codeing at 3am and have a Mountain Dew inspired breakthrough, and WMA will be broken wide open forever.

    Software companies continue to forget the days of dongles, code wheeles, and manual page/paragraph/word lookups. All it will do is annoy real consumers.

    --
    Karma: SELECT `karma` FROM `users` WHERE `userid`=138474;
    1. Re:We can only hope WMA will win! by __aagctu1952 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unfortunately, if that happens it will only bring the age of gov't mandated hardware DRM even closer - and then you can say goodbye to actually owning your own computer. What it's really time for is a property revolution - and I'm not talking about the Lenin/Che Guevara kind, I'm talking about actually giving people control over what they legally own. My computer? Then let me hack it as much as I want - software as well as hardware. My DVD? Then let me play it however I want (skip trailers, play it backwards, make my own "phantom edit"). All those things are already restricted by the DMCA and other laws, and it will only get worse unless somethings is done, soon...

  3. Monkey See, Monkey Do by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    To me the authors are vandals not revolutionaries, and may have ensured WMA becomes the standard."

    The problem with incredibly clever people is inevitably they come up with something you don't want. Who's to say they weren't WMA or even (shudder) RIAA proponents, bent on showing the public can't be trusted and DMCA is the right approach?

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  4. Let's hope by nsample · · Score: 5, Funny

    I already have a removal tool for WMA. Just waiting for it to become a standard. ;)

  5. Is FairPlay really better than WMA? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To me the authors are vandals not revolutionaries, and may have ensured WMA becomes the standard.

    If DRM is offensive to you, than FairPlay is no better than WMA.

    If you don't particularly mind DRM, then what's your complaint about WMA? I think it is the iTunes contract you like, and not FairPlay itself.

  6. DeCSS by Jeffrey+Baker · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Lots of ignorant comments already. PlayFair is the same as DeCSS: it removes restrictions on fair use, and allows compatibility. Now I can play my paid-for iTunes songs wherever I wish, just as DeCSS allowed me to play DVDs anywhere.

    It's a good thing.

  7. I think this is good by shadowcabbit · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Contrary to the knee-jerk reaction (and incidentally, also contrary to the blurb), I think that this tool is a blessing. Since it only works on songs that you have a valid license for (ie stuff you bought), it removes the burn-to-cd step from the "buy from ITMS, burn to CD, re-rip to MP3" process for those of us who don't have an iPod. I've bought quite a bit of music from the store, and I relish the opportunity to use it on my Lyra. This, I think, was the developers' intention with this tool-- not infringement. This is the only use I will have for this tool. Others may use it improperly or illegally, but that does not mean I should be denied access to the tool.

    --
    "Why Subscribe?" Good question...
  8. Incorrect background on VeriDisc/FairPlay by ikewillis · · Score: 5, Informative
    When Apple opened the iTunes Music Store, they licensed a technology called "FairPlay" from a company called "Veridisc".

    Apple bought VeriDisc. They didn't license FairPlay; they own it.

  9. This is like a selling point by AtariAmarok · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Having this available is like a selling point for ITMS. I've been rather resistant about buying songs there because they place restrictions about what I can do with my own data on my own machine. (and no, I'm not talking about selling them).

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
  10. Re:What was the point? by Ziviyr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Maybe they wanted to play their paid for tunes on something other then iTunes or an iPod.

    --

    Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
  11. watermarking? by ziggy+the+zagnut · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, what are we waiting for? Let's diff two cracked AAC's of the same iTune bought by different people to see if there's any encoding!

  12. So maybe it's not secure... by raehl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But is that a bad thing?

    What if sales of music in this format increase, because people are more likely to buy songs they can use as they please instead of buying songs that have annoying DRM restrictions on them?

    The bad assumption here is that by removing DRM, people won't want to buy a product, because they'll just copy it instead of paying for it. The problem with that assumption is it ignores the fact that copying itself has a cost, even if it's not a financial one: You both have to have a copy of what you want to make a copy of, and you then have to actually distribute that copy to whoever actually wants it.

    Or you could just go to a central store of digital copies, pay your paltry 99 cents, and get your own copy. For most people, 99 cents is worth the convenience of having whatever they want on demand.

    Before you start thinking this won't work, look at DVD sales nowadays. VHS tapes were priced to cost many, many times more than the price of a rental. Rentals were attractive. DVD's are priced at about $20-$30 each. Result? Even though people could fairly easy copy DVDs if they REALLY wanted to, it's just "easier" to walk into Best Buy and plop down the $20 - so much so that many many more people buy DVD's than used to buy VHS tapes.

    For most people, trying to find and download a copy of something off the internet just isn't worth the $20 to buy the copy at Best Buy, or the $20/month to have Netflix mail it to you.

    Very little of the cost/value of content is the content itself - most of it is the distribution. Efficient distribution can distribute content at prices low enough to be competitive with comparatively inefficient illegal distribution while still creating enough revenue to pay content providers.

  13. Re:FoulPlay by Slack3r78 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Honestly, this is borderline, but I can understand the logic behind it. What happens if it turns out the trolls are right, Apple does die, and you need new hardware? Or play your AACs under Linux? Or any number of other scenarios that could call for legitimate fair use?

    Here's the thing you and many others are missing - PlayFair only strips the DRM if you already own a legal copy. If you read so much as the single paragraph summary on their site, you'd see that in order crack the DRM, PlayFair extracts your key from either your iPod or your iTunes software. So if you don't already have legal access to the music, you're not going to be able to strip the DRM.

    Yes, it can be used as a piracy tool, but really the argument for this isn't really any different than the one for DeCSS. This can be, and very much is, a tool for fair use.

  14. Just a GUI by m1a1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    These guys didn't do anything special. The libraries they used have been out and available in a simple command-line form for quite awhile. They apparently just made it more accessible to the public. The libs are available at http://www.audiocoding.com/. I've played with the command-line version before and it works fine.

  15. Re:Not Apple's problem by Hawthorne01 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Given the iPod's approach to piracy (an admonishment not to steal music on the package), I'm quite certain Job's didn't push the security of iTMS as a selling point to the labels. Rather, I can see him stressing the ease of use and karmic value to the user.

    So it's been cracked. Does this affect the massive quantity of illegal MP-3's out there in the least? No. If you needed a copy of a song that was on iTMS, you could always find it elsewhere if you weren't worried about copyrights.

    I use iTMS because of:

    • Download speed
    • Gauranteed Results
    • Gauranteed Quality
    • Ease of use
    The DRM affects me not in the least. I have no reason to crack what I've bought from iTMS, and won't do so.
    --
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
  16. fairplay CVS is still up by dj_paulgibbs · · Score: 5, Informative

    Although Sourceforge have pulled the .tar.gz mirror, you can still login into the CVS and get it:

    cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/ playfair login
    cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/ playfair checkout playfair

  17. Re:What was the point? by ctr2sprt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    To you, Apple's DRM system is distinct from "other DRM" because it doesn't prevent you from doing the things you want. To me, Apple's DRM system is exactly like every other, because it does prevent me from doing what I want. (At least, as far as I've heard; I'm not going to pay for something that may or may not work, even if it is only a buck.)

    Maybe the guy who did this project is like me. He needed to something with AAC that "FairPlay" wasn't allowing him to do, so he found a way around it. Or maybe he was just being a geek and wanted to see if it could be done.

  18. What's the problem by smartin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This only works if you already have a key, so you aren't stealing anything, it just makes it possible to get better use out of music you paid for. Such as putting it on your slimserver etc. I don't think that the availability of such a tool is going to cause people to go hunting for protected aac files to crack, and if you are going share them, you could just rip them as mp3 (yes i know lesser quality yada yada). I think this tool is useful for people that do buy iTunes an i for one will probably buy more now that i can get better use out of them.

    Think of it as the same thing as cracking a game you already bought so that you don't have to put the CD in the drive every time you want to play it.

    --
    The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
  19. Vandals by cgenman · · Score: 5, Funny

    (from dictionary.com)

    Vandal (van'dl)

    1. vandal One who willfully or maliciously defaces or destroys public or private property.
    2. A member of a Germanic people that overran Gaul, Spain, and northern Africa in the fourth and fifth centuries A.D. and sacked Rome in 455.

    As these people obviously have not maliciously defaced or destroyed public or private property, I can only assume, then, that the repeated references to them as "vandals" means that the FBI has identified the coders as coming from an obscure Germanic sect, whose culture was believed lost.

    Which leads to a conundrum. If we don't arrest these people, then we are validating the viewpoint that the DMCA is far overreaching. If we do arrest these people, then we are destroying the remnants of a lost civilization important to our shared cultural heritage.

    Declare a law overly broad, or destroy a valuable culture? What is Ashcroft to do?

  20. Re:I agree that they are vandals and scoundrels... by daw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What if the next version of WMA encryption were as secure as AES? It's certainly not likely, but I wouldn't say it's impossible either. I understand that there are fundamental differences between DRM and plain encryption, but the point is that uncrackable systems are possible.

    This is nonsense. Encryption systems may be practically uncrackable. Encryption systems that have to decrypt the "protected" contents for you so that you can listen to them will never be in the least bit secure. If you can hear it you can record it. There is no getting around this. The entire idea of DRM is, on the face of it, futile.

  21. Beware, downloaded songs are watermarked by smadnessness · · Score: 5, Informative

    Songs bought and downloaded from iTMS are watermarked with your account information. Checking out the source for the song with a simple text editor I was able to clearly see my name and email address used for purchasing from the store. I don't know yet if these are stripped when playfair strips DRM, but it's worth verifying before you start playing pirate again.

    Besides, CD quality is still better audio.

    --
    ==========
    support the arts!
    www.smadness.com
  22. Wow, whats with all the hoopla? by msimm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To me the authors are vandals not revolutionaries, and may have ensured WMA becomes the standard.

    Vandals? Really? Wow, because the first thing that came to my mind is: wow, I can unencrypt MY files and put them on my MythTV box, or trascode them to use in my cars mp3 player or send them through my Slimplayer. People are getting a little weird about DRM. Vandals is probably the most ridiculous thing I've hear yet. Itunes is great, but if we are going to continue to have fair use we are going to have to stop buying in to all the hype and realize that using a product we bought isn't criminal. I'm a fucking consumer, not a pirate.

    --
    Quack, quack.
  23. well, a point is missed, that's for sure by N3wsByt3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Your first three paragraphs are quite true, but have no bearing at all on what I was saying. I was saying that the claim those companies make that 'It is just the same as stealing from a shop' (actual quote) is false.

    It does not matter what kind of contract they have with the musicians, nor if they are owners, nor if I or anyone else agreed to the licence. The *statement* is false. If I go to a shop, see some vase, let's say, and I copy that vase at home, can the shop or the owner accuse me of stealing his vase? No. (at least not icn the jurisdiction I live). I *could* be breaking copyright or some patents, yes, but I would not be charged with stealing it from the shop.

    The RIAA claims one could, if one does exactly the same, but instead of a vase, with one of their CDs. THAT is what is absurd, and what I was arguing.

    The problem with your line of reasoning, is that it starts from the established point of copyrights that we have developped into today, and do not try to see outside the framework that is now almost considered a natural right. but it isn't, and, in fact, it never was. It's very clear (whatever the Supreme Court says about it) that the founding fathers meant it to be a right of limited scope and duration, to *stimulate* new and innovative works, and then bring it to the public good.

    This, clearly, has been perverted and corrupted in a system that has virtual no limitations anymore, and which main goal is the squeeze as much money and profit out of it by and for the middle-man; corporations that have huge profits but hardly create anything innovative themselves, and, in fact, try their best to stiffle innovation when they feel threatened.

    You think 'asking to reform' will do actually amount to anything, since it would mean they practically vanish from the scene? Me thinks not. I think the chance of that happening is as big as it was if the serfs would have 'asked' the aristocracy if they would please give up their powerbase.

    This line of reasoning shows an apparent lack of sense for reality.

    Unjust laws are most often overruled by breaking them en masse, and what's more, I do not think that that is an immoral act on itself, on the contrary. Far from me to entice anyone in doing something illegal, but I still can say what I think (unless Free speech has been abolished too?), and I think that the law, as it was original conceived and intended was just, but what it is and has become today is unjust and immoral, and should not be used to make ppl guilty, let alone criminalised, when they are disregarding those perverted laws.

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    --- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---