A Babe in Tuxland

Joe Barr writes "This is the kind of story that WagEd and MS would love to see in one of their astroturf campaigns. But this story is real grassroots, with a real Sysadmin writing it and a real granddaughter as the babe using Linux. A sweet tale, with tips on Linux for kids." Newsforge and Slashdot are both part of OSDN.

Comments

Mission

[Daemonik CyCow]

Man, I love this. This is the kind of thing I dream about at night, this is total evangelist fodder (can that be used in a good way?)

Re:Mission

[B'Trey]

Yes, this is warm and cute and cuddly and completely precious. It's also complete and utter bullshit. Not that I'm saying it's not true - I certainly assume that it is true in regards to the facts of the situation. Howver, the conclusions it tries to draw are completely unrelated to the facts. It's a snow job.

The basic interface between MS and Linux is essentially identical. It's point and click. There's only so much variation you can have. And yes, a child can learn to point and click on Linux just as well as they can Windows.

But when people say Linux is difficult, they don't mean that it's difficult to figure out how to start a program, how to type text into a dodcument, or how to log on to the system. They mean that it's difficult to configure a printer, to setup the network, to install the driver for that new wireless card, etc.

I've been using Linux for over ten years, and it has made tremendous strides. An average user can sit down and install Mandrake or SuSe or Red Hat without difficulty. They can fire up Open Office and type out a letter or open Mozilla and browse the web. They can do all of these things without difficulty - IF everything works right. The problem is that things don't always work right, and when they don't work right, getting them fixed is usually much more difficult on Linux than it is on Windows. That's what people mean when they say Linux is difficult to use, and four year old girls, no matter how cute and cuddly, do nothing to address that.

Re:Mission

[ckaminski]

As someone who's done his fair share of windows admin work (10 years, 3000+ users and PC's), I can tell you that the same is VERY true of Windows. With the exception of device support, which is unparalleled in Windows, there are just as many times when the shit hits the fan, and there's no quick solution in Windows, as there is in Linux.

Re:Mission

[Oblio]

The problem is that things don't always work right, and when they don't work right, getting them fixed is usually much more difficult on Linux than it is on Windows.

I don't know... when I'm diagnosing a friends problem because "things don't work right" in windows, maybe a quarter to a half of the time I end up with "time to reinstall"... The WORST I have in linux is "you compiled your kernel wrong".

I think I'd rather debug a freak linux problem than a freak windows problem any day.

That said, my problems with linux come from when you want to do something relatively simple (printer sharing comes to mind) and it becomes exceedingly difficult because there is no clear, concise documented method to get it done. (Note that I found a document that WASN'T the standard HOWTO that walked me through this recently, so I'm not saying that this particular problem is intractable)

Sure, if you can dumb it down into a kisok...

[LostCluster]

The whole idea behind this setup is taking the time to put the system-important screens outside of the 4-year-old's view, so therefore she could click around the screen and even get to the web without getting into much trouble.

A Windows-expert parent could set up Windows to be the same way. The key thing to having a kid be able to use a computer without breaking it is having a smart admin as a parent.

Re:Sure, if you can dumb it down into a kisok...

[rusty0101]

Might want to remember that the article is not about dumbing down the interface to make it "safe" for a child to use.

It is about refuting the claim that Linux is "hard" to use.

Can Linux be hard to use? Sure. At the same time if I turn off desktop icons and disable the TaskBar in Windows, you might find it hard to use Windows as well. That isn't the way Microsoft ships it, and the way Joe Barr configured his daughter's account is not the default view for Linux. In the default view for both Windows and Linux, you are working with a Point and Click interface. If you can learn one, you can probably learn the other, either as well, or instead.

Then again I use four differen't OS's on a regular basis. You might have more trouble switching between two.

-Rusty

Wow, I'm not impressed.

[garcia]

A pre-schooler using a computer, I can't fathom that! Come on, seriously, why is this such a big deal? When I was two I could use a Commodore Vic20. That included plugging in cartridges, using the tape drive, and loading programs... Just like Dad and without a login.

Almost a year ago my (at the time) 4 year old cousin was visiting my parent's house while I was in town. She asked for the laptop and fired up IE. She was on her favorite website (I don't remember what it was, Blues Clues?) in seconds. She knew the URL, she knew exactly where she wanted to navigate to, and she didn't need my help... I was utterly confused by the flashing, moving, and colorful icons. I couldn't discern what was clickable and what wasn't. She knew and that's all that mattered.

Now... If I sat her down in front of a Linux machine w/KDE installed and told her "this is the IE icon" (or however she understood it) you don't think she would be able to do the same thing?

This article reeked of parental excitement. Their child was interested in using the computer!!!

Kids know computers... I realize that they are saying that KDE is easy enough for a child to use... Anything in X was that easy. It's the rest of Linux that isn't so easy.

She was shoving the system tools off, "out of sight out of mind"... It's not so easy for a regular user of a system to do that. You might actually have to deal w/something on the computer if you aren't 2 years old.

Linux is getting there but it certainly isn't as easy as they seem to be making it out to be. I wish it were but it's not and while I believe in advocating its use to everyone that might benefit from it, I don't think insulting people by saying "My two year old can use it, so can you" is the best way to go.

Old story, it's easy with a personal sysadmin

[fantomas]

Software is easy for you, me or any four year old if you have a personal sysadmin to setup, configure, and support your usage. (grin) ...

Seriously though the issue is - how easy is Linux/Windows/MacOS/any other software if you don't have a handy guru to help you configure and then support you when it goes wrong?

The issue is not how easy a kid finds it when their dad is a software guru (though it's kinda cute, my Apple-crazy friend's 4 year old son is similar), but how Joe Public, who has no software engineer friends, finds setup and maintenance and patching.

Too young?

[SirNAOF]

As wonderful as it is to see a young child able to use Linux, is it really necessary for children use computers? They are wonderful tools, and there are many games for young children that help them learn, but really, couldn't the parents teach the children just as well?

The real problem is when parents let their children sit in front of a TV or computer all day. There's a lot more to life than just staring at screens.

Re:Too young?

[John_Sauter]

I think it is important for children to use computers, and not just the games.

Computers barely existed when I was young, but, remembering that the most important skill I learned in High School was typing, I introduced my children to my Apple II when they were in elementary school. At first we would type their assignments together on the computer; later they did the typing themselves. Their comfort level with computers allowed them to find jobs in the computer industry, and with luck they will be able to support me in my old age.
John Sauter (J_Sauter@Empire.Net)

Re:Too young?

[uptownguy]

...parents just don't have time to sit around and cook. In our current economic climate, both parents working is the norm...

Forgive me for being pedantic and going off for a minute on your otherwise insightful post... BUT...

It isn't that our current economic climate leads both parents to work. It is rather that the current social climate leads both parents to feel as though they need to make enough to have a certain amount of stuff (Keeping up with the Jonses) which from a standpoint of either survival or happiness contributes nothing. One parent working would lead to the family "struggling" -- but "struggling" doesn't mean having to walk for five miles to get jars of clean water. It doesn't mean sending the children to bed hungry twice a week to make ends meet. It means cutting their hair yourself. Or not being able to pay the dues for the soccer club. The time to cook is there. It has always been there. And we live in one of the richest nations in the history of the world. Even being "lower middle class" in the US means having enough stuff. It's all about choices.

Again -- I'm not saying that parents who don't make these choices are bad. I'm trying to point out that it is certainly possible to have that time back but it isn't the economy that leads people away from having one parent raise the child. It is the society at large.

Re:Kids can do it...

[pe1rxq]

One of the key things is wanting to do a job instead of wanting to use a certain tool...

I have seen kids using sparc xterminals with netscape 4.75 (It was a few years back) on a linux system with twm as window manager for days without a problem, it wasn't until the first parents got to use them that there were complaints about it not being windows....

Jeroen

Re:I've set up a GNU/Linux machine for my kids too

[pe1rxq]

Material wealth is very important to the social status of children and is second only to how good looking their family is.

Only if you teach them to think like that....

Jeroen

Re:I've set up a GNU/Linux machine for my kids too

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

I don't know what kind of P1 you have, but it's been my experience that modern linux distros (Mandrake, SuSE, RedHat) run like crap on anything less than a p2-333.

Re:Kids can do it...

[Lumpy]

y daughter uses both linux and windows 2000. I catch her boting into linux on a regular basis to do her homework on OO.o or just plain websurfing or games like frozen bubble..

I asked her what the difference is to her...

she said, "nothing. they are both almost identical I like the KDE stuff better as it's prettier" when I told her that lots of people have trouble using linux her answer was, " that is stupid, there is almost nothing different..." my answer to her is "lots of times, adults are very stupid."

remember that next time you deal with someone in Marketing whining that the color of her desktop is not what she wants or the new version of a app has a different icon or slightly different menu.

lots of times, adults are very stupid.

Isn't that a little young?

[Frag-A-Muffin]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I hope my kids don't take a liking to computers at such a young age. I'm going to try to keep them away from computers for as long as I can. I'd rather them "play" the old school way. Take them outside as much as possible. Make them do more physical activities.

Re:I've set up a GNU/Linux machine for my kids too

[Red Alastor]

I'd not let a child use a Windows box. Not only for the kid's mental health but because Windows can be easilly messed up, and it's a pain in the ass to frequently reformat/reinstall, especially if you are not the one who made it crawl. With Linux and a separated login it's a lot safer.

You are really the typical Windows user aren't you ? It doesn't matter if the product is crappy as long as it looks good and everyone seems to use it.

So who followed the same procedure as me?

[Beek]

- Read headline, click on article
- Quickly scroll through article looking for pictures of this "babe"
- Found none, went to comments
- Found out she was four years old
- Forwarded michael's email address to perverted-justice.com