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City Of Heroes Beta Evaluated As Game Goes Gold

Thanks to GamersWithJobs for its detailed impressions of PC-based superhero MMORPG City Of Heroes, given just after the game reached gold master status, with an "official launch [of] April 28", and a (slightly inflationary?) "monthly subscription fee of US$14.99." The preview, from a "long time tester and fan of the game", notes: "When I entered City of Heroes for the first time, one of the things that quickly grabbed my attention was the scale--the towering statues, the twenty story buildings", before discussing the action-oriented gameplay: "Unlike almost every other MMORPG out there, combat in City of Heroes is designed to be fast paced and fun" The author concludes: "It's not a perfect superhero game, but it's a very good superhero MMORPG."

14 of 95 comments (clear)

  1. Another MMO with no PvP by JavaLord · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Another MMO game that is crying for PvP (super hero's vs Villans) that doesn't include it. Can someone please do something different than the PvE (player vs enviornment) friendly co-op mode all of these games are coming out in? Some of us want MMORPGs where combat against humans is allowed and maybe even (akk) encouraged.

    1. Re:Another MMO with no PvP by Ohnam · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Go play Lineage 2. The company chose what they wanted to do and they did it. If you can make a better game then do it. Don't say that a game needs something unless you have ever designed one. Some game needs PvP, some don't.

    2. Re:Another MMO with no PvP by kaisyain · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The wild success of games like The Sims which lack PvP seems to strongly indicate that while a vocal minority of hard-core gamers demand PvP, the vast majority can live without it just fine and would rather see efforts focused on other areas. Small wonder that developers chose to focus on the desires of the majority.

    3. Re:Another MMO with no PvP by Telastyn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why would they? PvP isn't desired by the majority of people. Even the ones who do desire it don't like to lose most of the time. In a total PvP game, half of the players per combat will lose. People don't play [and pay] to lose most of the time.

      Further, allowing PvP makes the game exceptionally difficult to balance so a few people don't run roughshod over the others.

    4. Re:Another MMO with no PvP by Alkaiser · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No it isn't. If you don't keep the mood of the world, you might as well just call the game "Combat".

      --
      Netjak.com independent reviews of domestic & import video ga
    5. Re:Another MMO with no PvP by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Some of us want MMORPGs where combat against humans is allowed and maybe even (akk) encouraged.

      Most of us, however do NOT. That's why it's not being included from day one in several current and pending games.

      I'd only play a game that included PvP if it was completely consensual, and there was NO content that required PvP activity to access (IOW, if it doesnt' affect me AT ALL, I dont care if it's in game).

      I'm not going to pay a subscription fee to be someone else's victim, and I have no desire to victimize others. I'm not going to pay a subscription fee to feel like a second class citizen because I don't participate in PvP (AC2 & DaOC, I'm looking at YOU) I'm not the only one apparently.

      --
      "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
    6. Re:Another MMO with no PvP by Ceyan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For one, there is no such thing as thief in a MMORPG. It's physically (well, I guess that should be virtually) impossible as of yet because the thief is more oriented towards non-combat actions, rather than combat actions. Closest thing you can get is a Assassin/Scout/Ranger character.

      For two, Evil characters (Villians) can level against anything. Good guys, bad guys, neutral guys, you name it. Besides, in City of Heroes, you don't level just against Super-Villians, you level against normal thugs and soldiers as well.

  2. Worth the costs? by TheBishop613 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm playing in the Beta and am having a really fun time with the game. I'm impressed with the stability and what has been worked into the game so far, and I'm more than patient to see what other cool things they work into the game in the future. A game can't support everything from the offset, gotta have some room to grow, so I'm not concerned about the lack of PvP and other things that seem to bother a lot of people.

    The one thing I am concerned about though is the price. I'm not really interested in dishing out $49.95 for the game (and one month of playtime) and then $14.95 a month thereafter. That's just too much for cash for me to justify. I'm not anywhere close to poverty stricken, I make good money and can afford to spend that much on a game. Unfortunately as much as I'd like to participate I don't see it as *worth* my money. Am I alone in this thinking?

    Droping $49.95 and having 3 months worth of online play, that seems worth it in my books (I'm still thinking high, but I'd pay it), but this cash grab just strikes me as unreasonable.

    1. Re:Worth the costs? by Goyuix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I am absolutely with you on this. Two years ago (more or less) when it was first announced and they had some trailer featuring game footage - I was extremely excited about the whole premise. The fact that it is coming out at least a year late, and now carries a nearly $15 per month price tag, well that is just unnacceptable for me. Again, not that I can't afford it, just that it is too much.

      I understand fully that it costs "resources" to maintain servers, but $15 is just waaaaaaay too much for me. Particularly when you throw up an initial price tag of $50 for the game. Just for kicks lets say it costs $5000 a month to maintain (internet connection + admin to kick/ban/whatever)... they only need about 350 players a month to turn a profit, and guess what, that is all they are going to have. Not very massive if you ask me. Besides if there isn't much of player interaction (good vs. evil players, not just co-op), is there really a need to have some admin running around anyway? just release some server software so we can have lan parties or clans or just connect to a random server somewhere....

      unreasonable, greedy, cash grabbing freaks.

    2. Re:Worth the costs? by Marc_Hawke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I hate you and everyone like you. Are you insane?

      When I purchase/subscribe to a MMORPG, I'm not renting a movie, I'm not GOING to a movie, and I'm not going out to dinner. I'm buying a GAME. Don't compare prices to other types of entertainment, compare prices to other GAMES!!

      I can buy UT2004 for $30. I can play UT2004 for as many hours a day as I want. I can play it online, or offline. I get free content updates from the developers, not to mention there will be a constant inflow of user-created content, and modification. (Expansion packs if you will.)

      That initial $30 investment buys me infinitely more than the $50 + 14.95/month that CoH would ever give me.

      But then again, I'm comparing two different concepts. If we can't compare to movies, and we can't compare to FPS's, then pretty much we have to look 'within'.

      We have to look at the costs involved in producing and maintaining the MMORPG. The problem is...there's no publisher alive that will ever release that information to the general public. (That's because they count on idiots like you thinking that a monthly subscription should cost about as much as 3 movie rentals.)

      (I figured this out, making assumptions on pay rates for employees, bandwidth costs, server maintainence and replacement, based on 100,000 subscribers. At the $12 price point, a MMOG makes $50,000 NET PROFIT a month. That's AFTER all expenses (including personnel.)

      People keep talking about the 'oversaturation' of the MMORPG market. That's insane. If it was oversaturated, they wouldn't be able to keep making their prices HIGHER. I'm convinced that part of the reason the prices go up is because they want to seem like a 'premium.' "We aren't no discount 9.99 game, we're the real-deal at 15 BUCKS!!"

      I'm in the City of Heroes beta, and it's the first MMORPG I think is worth buying in the last 3 years. (I"ve played ever single one of them.) However, $50 + $15/m is way to much to spend on a single game. That's $230 dollars for a game. If you spent that on other games, you could have 5 or 8 fresh new experiences in that same time....

      --
      --Welcome to the Realm of the Hawke--
    3. Re:Worth the costs? by Tofino · · Score: 2, Insightful
      (I figured this out, making assumptions on pay rates for employees, bandwidth costs, server maintainence and replacement, based on 100,000 subscribers. At the $12 price point, a MMOG makes $50,000 NET PROFIT a month. That's AFTER all expenses (including personnel.)

      Who modded this Insightful? If I had a large business that was pulling down $50k a month, or by your assumptions 50 cents per subscriber, I'd be damn sure that my company wasn't publically traded. We'd get absolutely killed in the market with numbers like that.

      Besides, we've heard this recycled argument many times over, and it's apples vs. oranges. An MMORPG is not UT2004, or any other off-the-shelf, developer moves on game. It's a game designed to have content that changes on a monthly basis, and such a VAST amount of content that thousands of people can have "fresh new experiences" every time they log in. Comparing this to a game that just happens to have fan-created after-release content is ridiculous. Even if said company wanted to open up its servers in ANY WAY to have players supply their own content -- and they'd have to be certifiably insane to do so -- they run the risk of having this player-created content trample all over the developer's planned epic storyline.

      You show me a game with no subscription cost that is massively multiplayer (no dude-in-Seattle-running a server 4 hours a night -- I'm talking 24/7, with TONS of equipment to assure little lag), is huge enough to run around for literally days and weeks and not see it all, and has constantly changing content and epic-scale storylines and characters, and I'll retract all of the above. UT2004 player-created content could not possibly stand against, say, Asheron's Call (the first one), with more content per month than a fan can generate in a year. The main difference is that UT2004 looks much spiffier, having a 4-years-more-recent engine, and games are quicker. I have an attention span, so I'll go with something where I can experience a vast amount of content over time.

  3. Recuring fee games aren't my thing either. by GrnArmadillo · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I certainly recognize that I might get more play time out of a month in a good MMO than a $50 boxed game, but the difference is I can get my full value for the boxed game even if I don't play it like I have no life or *gasp* put it down and come back months later.

    I'm currently playing the online version of the Lord of the Rings CCG. This game does have the unfortunate CCG pricing model (i.e. the more you pay, the better options you have) but it's certainly possible for a player with a good idea of what they want to get a tourney winning quality deck for around $50-70. (This approach requires lots of camping in the trade lobby to find people willing to give you stuff you need for the limited stuff you have, but that time investment is no worse than any other MMO.)

    Anyways, the good news to the otherwise somewhat newbie-unfriendly pricing is that there's no mandatory recurring fee to keep the collection that you have. (There's an optional $10 monthly membership that gives you more than $10 worth of stuff and is intended essentially as a loss leader, since members get a 20-40% discount on further purchases, encouraging you to spend more. The membership pays for itself for anyone spending at least $10 a month on the game, but again, is optional if you know you won't be playing for a few months and want to cancel it until you come back or just want to cut yourself off.) This means that I'm not getting significantly worse value for my money dollar for dollar than the people who spend hours and hours playing, as one does in a monthly fee use it or lose it payment scheme.

    The CCG model does require a certain resignation that every so often you'll face someone who destroys your puny deck with their massively larger collection. This also, from what I hear, is common on PvP MMO's (LOTRO is PVP only, there are no AI opponents yet, even for tutorial). But at least here once you get started, all that matters is how well the ~70 or so cards you brought to the table work together to win you the game. Not how much time you've spent (though playtesting will help you pick which cards to bring), not how much the 70 cards you have are worth, and DEFINITELY not how much the cards from each of your collections that aren't being used this game are worth. Knowing you've beaten someone who spent 10 times as much as you on the game? Priceless.

  4. Re:Why god why?? by chazmo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Alright then, go ahead and start building a server farm to host the tens (maybe even hundreds) of thousands of users who will be playing online at once. Take over the development necessary to improve gameplay and add new worlds/zones. As the game becomes more popular, pay for even more rack space and servers to load balance the MMORPG. What you don't understand is, all of this requires money. Money to pay for rack space at a Network Operations Center, money for the servers, money for the huge amount of bandwidth, money for the sys admins, money for the developers to improve the game, etc. If you can provide all of that for them, I'm sure they'd be all for no monthly fees.

  5. Yes, worth the costs by Psychochild · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, I'm one of those people you "hate"; I run an online RPG which charges a monthly subscription fee and feel it's a better deal than most other entertianment, games included. But, allow me to point out some fallacies in your argument.

    First, let's get the money out of the way. You think $50k profit on 100k users is impressive? That's $6/year per customer. That's a shameful amount for any business. Many companies make at least that much profit off a customer in one visit without the costs of developing an online RPG that can hold 100k subscribers.

    But, let's focus on games as you requested. So, let me ask you: when was the last time you negotiated a peaceful agreement between opposing groups in UT2004? What? Never? That's funny, because someone posted about doing that very thing on Meridian 59 just the other week. See, politics is an important force in some online RPGs, and an interesting way to engage in player vs. player competition. The problem with UT2004 is that the lack of persistence means that there is no reason for deeper interactions between players in the context of the game. My only options in UT2004 is to shoot my enemy before s/he shoots me.

    It's the persistence that give online RPGs the depth you don't find in other games. Politics is just one thing, but meaningful conflict is another. When I kill a player in Meridian, that player suffers penalties. Those penalties don't go away once the game resets (except for some special events), so that player has a reason to hold a grudge against me. I have to deal with the consequences of my actions, which leads to interesting interactions between players.

    In the end, it's that persistence you pay for in a online RPG. You're not just paying for the game, but also for the service that keeps the servers active and available for you to play on, and polices the game for cheaters, etc. This isn't to say that everyone has to love persistence and dealing with the consequences for their actions, but there are a lot of us that really do appreciate this and think that a monthly fee is well worth it.

    And, to pimp my own game for a bit, some games are great bargains. Meridian 59 is only $10.95 per month (not $15 like City of Heroes will be), and does not require the purchase of a box or expansions. We keep expanding and improving Meridian; in fact, we're in the middle of a rewrite of the rendering engine to improve the graphics of the game. All as freely downloaded content to the players of the game.

    In the end, you'll be hard pressed to find any other form of entertainment, including games, that has as low a buyin as $10.95 and is that cheap per month.

    My take on things,

    --
    Brian "Psychochild" Green
    MMO developer's blog