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GNOME for Grandma
An anonymous reader writes "PCWorld colmnist Matthew Newton has written an interesting two part article titled "In Search of Linux for Grandma", in which he shares his thoughts on introducing computers to a 75 year old PC neophyte (through Linux).
He discusses the new spatial Nautilus that he is planning to unleash upon grandma, and quote from the article - "Grandma is never going to learn about "opening a file manager" to "navigate her way" to her documents. They are all going to live in plain view in folders on her desktop. And when she opens them, there won't be any surprises."."
Do we think Linux is ready for this. Yes I admit if you have some one set it up well, any one can use it. But Grandma might hear of software X and want it. How will the be done, aka, I heard I can do my taxes on the computer with turboTax, can you set it up for me.
what are you going to tell her, if you can not get it to work with wine?
I like the idea, but I am not sure Linux is ready
The article's title indicates that Grandma will be using GNOME. Where did GNOME come from? The article states that Grandma will be using Xandros, and that "Xandros does not offer a choice of desktop environments, as most Linux distributions do. The current edition runs a modified version of KDE 3.1.4."
when she finds out that this revolutionary idea of opening a new window for each folder is one of the first features users turned off in windows 95
Have you Meta Moderated t
This reveals the new object-oriented behavior of Nautilus. The single major and possibly controversial feature of GNOME 2.6 is the introduction of a new look-and-feel for Nautilus: the oft-misspelled spatial metaphor. As first indicated here, the spatial metaphor brings a different methodology of viewing desktop folders and their relationships.
Has no chance of explaining anything to the technically challenged.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
It's been my experience that the last sentence you wrote means the person is never going to learn what you are trying to teach them. Why remember when you can just look on that battered, coffee stained, 2 year old sheet of paper that tells you how to do it?
I think Albert Einstein said something similar.
In real life, the teach-a-man-to-fish aphorism is practicle and less painful in the long run.
Note the label "FileSystem" in the Nautilus screenshot.
You just lost Grandma. Heck you just lost my dad.
You want to know how to design a computer for Grandma? You design it like a TV or a toaster is designed. Task oriented rather than open ended.
"For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
Well, the GNOME Human Interface Guidelines are built on this. It's been carefully written to ensure intuitive interfaces, and it has evolved over time - maybe, in my opinion, one of the flagships of GNOME. It's a base for the best part of the whole thing, the interface.
But still, I agree that BugZilla aren't a tool for everyone. Filing a bug about something is for better-knowers, not for the average user. Thus, interface problems won't solve without careful research like you state here.
While the projects were before standalone and small, they've now got big corporations and more money behind them. As long as they don't control the software for their own good, as at least Ximian/Novell never has done, I think the window systems will gain much from this in the years to come.
Being a GNOME supporter myself, I'm very happy with the newest release. But there are still things to fix - a lot of things that seem unpolished and featureless. I miss some extendibility in the spatial nautilus, and easier access to configuration here and there. But as earlier problems have been, these will get eliminated in a while.
This has been a public service announcement from the Grandparents are not Clueless Idiots Association...
Normal service is now being resumed... flame on...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Its my job to make sure that all the people I know have their videos set to the correct time, the TV is tuned, the remote control works and the computer prints, e-mails and connects to the "interweb"
They don't care what "operating system" they use, they can barely pronounce "operating system" without strange facial contortions. All they want is e-mail, instant messaging, printing, document writing and something that makes them look cool with all the other "oldies" that are "getting into it".
"Can I still get my Hotmail on Linux?""Of course."
"How does that work then?"
"Hold on. Right. You click on this picture of an envelope with Hotmail written underneath. See?"
It doesn't matter if Open Office has "a squirrely install" - so does Microsoft Office. Grandma isn't the one installing the software, or setting it up. Heck, Grandma keeps all her documents in one directory!
"So what about those virus things?"
"Its OK. They won't affect you"
"Why is that?"
"They are just for Microsoft. There isn't any Microsoft on here"
I'll certainly agree about the world of spyware, virus updates, daily patches, scandisk. Gives me a headache, gives Grandma a colonic!
At the end of the day as long as the user has piece of mind and can do everything they want to do, what does it matter which OS, desktop or colour scheme they use? After all, their friendly neighbourhood systems administrator is the one who has created the work environment in exactly they way Grandma feels happy with.
Isn't there a theory that says whenever you want to check if a software is _really_ user-friendly, give it for your mother to try it. If she can use it easily, then anyone will.
Not necessarily. An interface that is easy to learn the first time might be a nightmare to use repeatedly. An interface that is intuitive for a non-computer-literate person might seem idiotic to a more experienced user (MS Bob, anyone?). And an interface that is fundamentally good might seem bad to someone who spent 10 years using Windows.
I more or less forced my family into the posititon of working on a FreeBSD workstation running Gnome. My sister, who has recently turned 18 has adapted amazingly well, as has my mother. My dad couldn't really use a windows computer, so i guess he's the "control" group saying it is equally has difficult. I took back my 1.2Ghz Celeron w/ 1GB of RAM because they were not actually /doing/ anything and I needed my server back. Now all parties are well served. I login via SSH w/ forwared X11 via my iBook G4 and do what I need to do on the FreeBSD machine. They use it physically.
GNOME is "good enough" the way it is. Personally, I wouldn't attempt to make my grandparnts change. My grandpa is 91 and my grandma is 81. They don't really use their computer much, but can do what they do (email and that's about it). For christs sake, they're old enough, you know? why make them suffer more over so trivial an issue?
> word wouldnt have 40 tabs in the options window
This is a special case. No doubt Microsoft knows that the Word options dialog sucks from the usability standpoint.
However, the Corporate Training lobby has mandated that Microsoft Shalt Not Change Office's UI. Therefore, they are stuck with the exact same crappy dialog box since Word 6.0 (10 years ago).
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
I like Linux and all, but looking at spacial Nautilus reminds me of the biggest problem with the Linux world is- it replicates, but doesn't innovate.
Spacial Nautilus just makes Gnome that much more like pre-OS X Mac OS. The new features they're advertising have been around since System 7. I like the changes, and I'll probably take advantage of them when using Gnome, but they aren't anything new.
To get back on topic, even with these "new" features, Linux is still much more complicated than Grandma can probably handle. Just because you like Linux and understand it doesn't mean that it's the right choice for Grandma. Think, why do you use Linux? Are any of those reason anything that you honestly think that Grandma cares about?
I remember when we first got my Grandfather a computer. We got an old Mac Plus running System 6.0.8 and set him up with a word processor and a printer. After a while we upgraded him to a IIsi. Then we got him a modem and put him on AOL. By the time he died he was on his fourth computer- a G4, and one of the better models at the time.
The point is that he learned slowly, but eventually got the hang of it. System 6 was a perfect place to start him at because it was simple, and let him adjust slowly to more modern technology. If I would have set him up with a modern OS I don't think he would have ever progressed past the word processing stage.
eMac = $799.
Used CRT iMac that will run Panther well = $300.
The subject here is a typical variation on the "is Linux ready for Joe Budweiser" question. But am I the only one who would rather give my grandparents a machine that's designed around a metaphor they can understand (digital hub), that figures out the logical thing to do when they plug in a camera or put in a DVD, that keeps its software current automagically, and that they can pretty much set up and maintain themselves?
I used to be a huge supporter of promoting Linux to this kind of mainstream user base. But with solid Apple machines now genuinely affordable and with OS X and iLife as good as they are, it seems counterintuitive to foist Linux onto the non-technical unless you really can't pony up the cash for a basic, used, G3 Macintosh that will probably last forever.
Dunno. Maybe it's just me.
With all due respect, you're 48. You may be a grandmother, but there's no way (I sincerly hope) that your grandchild(ren) are old enough to build you a computer and be this bent on forcing Linux on you. Those that do have granchildren of that age aren't likely to have nearly the level of technical expertise that people from your age group. My pop's older than you, and uses PGP, open GPG, and absurdly complicated VB scripting regularly, but his mother would be greatly helped by this kind of GUI.
I thought the article to be very insightful/interesting, as it would greatly simplify my grandmother's life.
Sorry, but there are a lot of people who just want it to be a TV, i.e. just another appliance. Not the way most /.ers think of a machine, but try talking to people in other fields (biology, fine arts, etc.). They're not stupid, or lazy, they're just not interested in learning all the cool tricks. Show them a good browser, and be accessible to answer the "how do I..." questions, and that's all they want. Remember, something like 90% of machines are left in default configurations, so make sure those defaults make some sense.
Very good point. People tend to forget that rigging up a customzied, totally stripped Linux installation containing nothing but a desktop with two icons: "Internet" and "E-Mail", proves nothing about Linux usability. All it proves is that even the most computer illiterate folks can handle a dumbed-down computer that only has two or three functions. Hell, pretty much any modern OS can handle that no problem.
You're right, what we need to see are the reactions of people who know a little bit more about computers. People who are, for instance, familiar with the process of installing hardware, software, basic to intermediate system administration, etc.
As a 48 yo grandmother, I am offended that people equate being a grandmother with having a low level of technical competance.
Well, you don't have enough "technical competance" to reply to the right post on slashdot. So, I think you proved the posters point. Good job.
Anyways, I'd be willing to be all of my net worth that over 95% of grandmothers have a very low level of technical competance. You are the exception (and also a fairly young grandmother).
Casual Games/Downloads
Hooray, they have re-invented Mac OS 7's spatial finder. And guess what: I've been explaining to users how to navigate Mac OS since 1995, and leaving everyting on the desktop only works if a) you don't mind a cluttered desktop (many users do) and b) you have a large enough monitor.
And there are plenty of surprises. (Not sure if Nautilus copies this or not, but this is what OS 7-9 did.) Double-click on the hard drive (or your home folder, or whatever) and put it in list/details view. Double-click on a folder--say, Documents. Go back to the parent window. Click the flippy triangle or plus sign or whatever next to Documents. Watch the "Documents" window close itself. Start explaining "spatial" to the user. Prepare for blank stares.
Face it: computers are complex devices that can perform a multitude of functions. Unless you are going to do only the most basic things (for example, only run a word processor and always save all your docs to the same folder) it will always be complex.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Begging your pardon, but I would respectfully have to disagree. Equating being a grandmother to a low level of technical incompetence has its basis in statistics. Even if one were simply forming hypotheses, one could easilly assume that the older one is, the less technically oriented this person is LIKELY to be. Perhaps not inherently because of age itself, but because of the kind of learning experiences these various groups of people have had.
It's all a matter of making learned guesses and rationalizing ones way through the given information. Not all grandmothers are old. Most seniors have little to no technical training. I can't say for certain whether one becomes harder to train the older one gets.
As for the statement on discrimination: while I certainly disagree with discrimination in any form, I don't see it happening here or in the article. Discrimination is a directed action against representatives of a group. When software developers develop or talk about designing software for grandmothers, they are simply making assumptions based on numbers. If one were to turn down a job applicant for a technical job, for instance, for simply being a grandmother, then THAT is discrimination.
And what good is a word processor without a printer?
So Grandma goes out and buys a cheapie lexmark colour inkjet printer from Circuit City for $40 (say, the LEX Z705).
And then what?
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
The ease of use of windows is a myth; you have been trained for many years to use and accept windows. Windows is a complex beast that requires frequent attention. There is the requirement for an anti virus due to an inherently insecure default email client. You also have a web browser that allows popup hijacking. How will Grandma deal when the entire screen "corner to corner" is a porno picture? How will your Grandma deal when she gets a fresh install of GATOR?
Now please tell me that knoppix or mandrake move requires the same attention.
Get a free ipod.
Your mom is an exception to the rule.
My grandparents only have a touch-tone telephone because they have to.
Almost every home PC I see where kids are not in picture still has the default icons on the desktop. You know, like 5 Dell icons that they never use but don't delete because they don't understand the difference between deleting an icon and deleting/removing an applicatoin. That and you end up seeing a dozen verisons of AOL;AOL 6, AOL 7, AOL 8 etc.
They only buy new PC's because a) things are so screwed up and the PC(Windows) doesn't work anymore or b) at work they got a new PC and broadband and they finally realize their Pentium 233 is out of date.
Like I said add kids in the picture and all I've said goes out the window. But for empty nesters and older people without children its mostly like I stated above. Just like the parent stated they are not likely to want new software once they have their basic needs met. This of course can be done with a good Linux distro. I'm obviously not saying its for everyone, but considering many home users just know 2 or 3 programs at most(one of them being Freecell) using Linux for such basic tasks is very much a realistic option. The problems Linux has still lies with slight more advanced users who want to use programs from work, play recent games, actually browse at the computer store, etc. This group will still have tons of problems with Linux.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
And your comments make it appear that you aren't reading my comments properly. Please explain exactly when popular Gnome applications receive ongoing usability testing (which consists of the passive observation of people using the software within the experimental circumstances I have previously described).
Perhaps *you* aren't reading your own comments properly. You said usability testing wasn't being done, I showed you that indeed it was. So now you twist your original comment and pretend you were talking about ongoing usability testing. I get the distinct impression that you will continue arguing this point by adding new definitions and specifications as to what defines 'usablilty testing' so that you can continue to make your point. I know, I know, you're never wrong...
If your point is "free software projects don't do ongoing useability testing" that is seemingly correct, but that is a far cry from "Free software lacks usability testing" which was the title of your original post and a good summary of your original argument. The fact is that Gnome has done this type of testing and come up with a set of guidelines that they adhere to pretty closely.
Does this mean that they couldn't benefit from more usability testing? I'm not saying that... they probably could, and I imagine they will. But in the meantime the good folks at Gnome have proven than free software can produce a desktop with usability as a primary focus and that free software isn't "ill-equipped to do anything even approaching proper usability testing."
501 Not Implemented
Grandmas don't typically install/uninstall things, buy new hardware or software, upgrade their drivers, but when they do their IT staff (children or grandchildren) take care of it. It would be assinine to expect everyone in the world to become amateur sysadmins, most people just want to use their computer not fiddle with it.
Linux provides a rock solid, easy to use system to check e-mail, surf the web, write letters or balance the check book. If major changes in functionality are needed, then call in the IT support (grandkids, etc.). Many issues can be handled remotely via SSH.
OS X is another low maintenance option.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.