Slashdot Mirror
On Religious Violence And Videogame Violence
Thanks to the IGDA for its 'Culture Clash' column discussing the violent nature of many religious texts, and how that relates to religious criticism of game violence. The piece references The Passion Of The Christ, mentioning: "The film's portrayal of the delight these men took in administering the scourging draws an alarming parallel to some claims that video games desensitize young people to violence." It then goes on to argue: "The history of opposition to games is a long one, and religion is often used to justify that opposition, though naysayers tend to ignore the fact that religion itself is a major source of violent acts", before concluding: "Frankly, the arguments for and against violence in games, as in any entertainment media, must be assessed in context or not at all."
more people have been killed in the cause of religion (crusades, inquisitions etc), that have been killed because some kid "learnt" how to aim and shoot with a mouse.
CJC
This article is great. It brings up major points on both sides and addresses a very sensitive issue in a way that should make most people stop and think.
I think, though, that there still is a fundamental difference between media like Passion of the Christ and a violent game.
In this particular movie, (though I have not seen it) I believe there was a message for people of religion, to look upon a man they believed in and see what he went through specifically for them. The violence was there as a tool to make people think in one specific way (as religion is so oft to do).
However in most games the violence either exists for the sake of violence itself (Doom; because its fun to blow up enemies), or merely as a more exciting vice for conflict (Counterstrike, which could be developed with nearly the same mechanics using a more innocent, but less gripping, theme).
Still, killer article. Glad to see people tackling such great subjects. True gaming journalism is NOT dead, it's just out of the limelight.
> more people have been killed in the cause of
> religion (crusades, inquisitions etc)
More people have been killed in the cause of *xenophobia* than have been killed in the 'cause' of religion.
Christianity didn't tell the crusaders to slaughter all the men, women, and children in Jerusalem when they surrendered. It didn't tell them to rape the nuns when they took Constantinople in the 4th Crusade. Islam didn't tell the terrorists to fly a plane into a building.
Don't know enough about the Christian concept of a 'Just War', but there are several rules of engagement for combat in Islam:
- Treaties must be upheld.
- Cannot kill innocents/non-combatants.
- If the enemy seeks quarter, give it to them.
- Prisoners are never tortured, and fed well.
- Declaration of war unless you are occupied.
- Cannot destroy churches, synagogues, etc.
- Cannot destroy property, trees, animals, etc.
- Should try to reach an agreement first.
- No religious compulsion or coercion should ensue.
- Give prisoners of war a chance for freedom.
- Bury the dead with dignity.
The Qur'an describes those people who are permitted to fight:
[Quran 8:61]"If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient."
[Quran 4:90]"...... Therefore, if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them."
However frustration and the feeling of impotence makes people willing to believe anything. I don't think that religion is the cause of all evil - I think it's evil people that are the cause of all evil.
This article is not what you expect. How to tell if someone hasn't read the article: ranting about religion being used to justify political positions.
...do people oppose game violence because they oppose violence, or because they oppose games?
There were two really good points in the article:
I've always thought people who oppose games just don't like to have fun. They see it as wasteful.
And while I'm not comparing the Bible to a video game, it's worth noting that those games which don't get much attention from pro-censors fit their violence into the overall milieu of the game, just as the Bible fits violence into its context.
This is very interesting - the games cited as examples (Max Payne, etc...) do a very good job of making the violence as part of the story line.
-- $G
It actually might be really funny to do a bare knuckled version of the bible in one of the role-playing engines like Neverwinter Nights. Start off in eden, with gratuitous sex and nudity. Eve would be super-hot and 3d, IYKWIMAITTYD. The player could have sex with her whenever and however they wanted as long as they stayed away from the pooper, and she wouldn't kiss *it* as long as they didn't take the apple. Just render the whole bible like that interactively, in all the gory detail, in Sodom you could do anything, animals, any people, trees, kill them, f-them, their corpses, while burning, whatever. What could the morality police get pissed off about. It'd be the ultimate GTA, and so depraved Ron Jermy would blush. You could crucify Jesus yourself. And stab him with the lance. Dogs and cats could live together in domestic partnerships. It'd be sweet. And kids could play it in Sunday school. It'd be so depraved it'd flip back over to wholesome.
I've never really seen much of a clash between video games and religion. For the most part, the industry seems to battle more with racial groups, anti-gun groups, and parental groups. Most of the people that back these kind of groups in public are lawyers and politicians, take that for what you will.
In this article, Matt Sakey fails to show how religion is against video game violence in the first place! When it comes down to actually showing hard examples as to how religion is against violence in videogames, he doesn't really have anything. This doesn't prevent him from pointing out the hypocrisy of religion, though. Take for example the quote aforementioned in the Slashdot article: "The history of opposition to games is a long one, and religion is often used to justify that opposition, though naysayers tend to ignore the fact that religion itself is a major source of violent acts". Matt never does say exactly when religion was used to justify opposition in video games.
I'm not arguing against Matt Sakey's article because I'm religious. In fact, I'm an atheist. But, I think that Matt just had a bone to pick with relgion as opposed to a strong debate pointing out religion's opposition to video game violence, an opposition that he never did show to exist.
Until Slashdot fixes the funny modifier, use insightful or interesting. The poster knows your intentions.
This is a fascinating topic. I remember the spate of school shootings in the US a few years ago, with Columbine as the grisly centre-piece. I remember how shocked people claimed to be that this spate of shootings was centred on the "Bible Belt" and how quick religious groups were to blame games and how shrill they were in this condemnation.
This got me thinking...
Aren't "bible-belt" communities going to be more likely to ostracise and condemn those who don't fit into their own (fairly narrow) pattern of social behaviour? Aren't they, whether well-meaningly or maliciously, going to make life worse for those who, as they go through an extremely difficult stage in anybody's life, find themselves as outsiders? Aren't these religious groups and communities actually the real "pressure cooker" that create the environment in which these events can occur?
Maybe these fine, upstanding religious groups are so eager to blame computer games because it stops the finger of blame pointing where it really should... at themselves.
I sought out a similiar set of rules for Christians in my Bible, and this is what I came up with:
.. " (1 Timothy 4:1) [Illustrating Christ's Kingdom on earth begins with his appearing.]
"But Jesus said to him, 'Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.'" (Matthew 26:52)
"Jesus answered, 'My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.'" (John 18:36)
".. the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom
Is it fair to ask then why (if Christ's Kingdom isn't established yet) Christians have been fighting at all?
(It's a different case to discuss with Old Testament Israel who, according to the Bible, was actually a nation representing the Kingdom of God at that time.)
If you are insinuating that there are a number of children running around with no adult supervision/guidance, then they have much bigger problems than violent videogames.
While I understand the futility of speaking in spiritual terms to someone who does not relate to spirituality (much like trying to talk math with an Art professor), I have to ask for clarification on at least one of your points:
After reading the text in question, I see no reference to rape. In fact, not even the Skeptic's Annotated Bible entry on Joshua has a reference. Could you perhaps give a more succinct citation?
Happiness is relative, Based upon the way we live.