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Is the Universe Shaped Like a Funnel?

DrMorpheus writes "A new theory of the shape of the Cosmos posits that the Universe may be shaped like a medieval horn, according to Frank Steiner at the University of Ulm. This theory, if true, could explain several strange observations about the microwave background radiation. The Universe would be stretched out at one end into a long tube and flared out into a bell at the opposite end. The technical name for this shape is a 'Picard topology'. To quote the article, '...our Universe is curved like a Pringle, shaped like a horn, and named after a Star Trek character. You could not make it up.'"

13 of 525 comments (clear)

  1. Of course, Monty Python reference. by The+I+Shing · · Score: 5, Funny

    I just have to jump in and be the first one to make the reference to Sir Bedevere's remark at the end of what could only be assumed to be a lengthy explanation to King Arthur, "...and that, my Liege, is how we know the earth to be banana shaped."

    Imagine if he'd said, "...and that, my Liege, is how we know the universe to be shaped like a trumpet." Terry Gilliam and Terry Jones might have been Nobel Prize candidates.

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    1. Re:Of course, Monty Python reference. by Warpedcow · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Wasn't discovered a few years ago that there was a prevailing low Bb (lots of octaves below the tuba range) sounding through the universe?

      Many electronic appliances and lights give off a very low db B-flat hum (at least in the US) because of the 60hz frequency in the electricity here (60hz = Bb). I suppose in Europe it's a different pitch (50hz).

      Anyway, because of this constant Bb that we're all subconsciously bombarded with, most people, when asked to hum ANY pitch, will hum a Bb!! (Learned this in a music class at college)

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    2. Re:Of course, Monty Python reference. by Mateito · · Score: 5, Funny

      > Maybe that's why music soothes the soul. I mean,
      > if the whole universe has the shape of a sound
      > producing "horn".. (I know, the subject said
      > "funnel" but the body says "horn" and I'm a
      > brass player)

      I am also a brass player*. But that doesn't stop me imagining that the Universe is the shape of an erect penis.

      Adds a whole new meaning to the "big bang".

      Also explains what the unverse was created in 7 seconds.

      *Technically not, I play Sax, which any Trumpet playing purist well tell you is a woodwind instrument, even though its not made out of wood.

  2. What shap haven't we had by twanvl · · Score: 5, Funny

    Last year it was a dodecahedron, this year a funnel, what's it going to be next year?

  3. Someone enlighten me.... by rdsmith4 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How can the universe, the sum of everything which exists, have shape? What, then, is outside this funnel? Isn't it infinitely large by definition?

    1. Re:Someone enlighten me.... by dcsmith · · Score: 5, Informative

      For enlightenment, please read Flatland by Edwin A. Abbott. A very interesting way to conceptualize life in one, two and four-dimensional worlds.

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    2. Re:Someone enlighten me.... by SilverSun · · Score: 5, Interesting
      I don't think the universe being discussed is "everything that exists".

      Oh yes, that's what they talk about indeed.

      ..some "space filling" and some not..

      No, there is no "space outside the universe" that
      migt get filled. It is a question of space-time
      "curvature". A manifold does not need to be embeded
      in a higher dimensional space to have a curvature.


      The question of shape does not address what's in the gaps if it's not space-filling.

      there are no "gaps"


      The article is discussing the simplest kind of negative curvature

      ...which is still possible in the light of WMAP
      measurements. The simplest form of negative
      curvature is the "pringle" (or more common: "saddle")


      The trumpet shape being discussed is a two-dimensional analog of the actual case in our universe, and is clearly not space-filling.

      because it is a two-dimensional shape embeded in
      a three-dimensional space. The universe, i.e. space-time is (most likely) not embeded in a higher dimensional space. (That is even true if
      your name is Witten and your space-time has 11 dimensions, still, it is not embeded somewhere)

      Cheers

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  4. If it is shaped like a funnel by Tibor+the+Hun · · Score: 5, Funny

    If it is shaped like a funnel, does it point up -- like a Dunce Hat, or down -- like a toilet bowl?

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  5. Well then by FS1 · · Score: 5, Funny

    If the universe is shaped like a horn, curved like a pringle, and named after Jean-Luke Picard.
    Then it is all my favorites rolled into one.
    The universe blows, is made out of mashed potatoes, and is named after someone i look up to.

    Sorry couldn't help myself.

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  6. Re:Um by spellraiser · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sorry - I just have to cut in here.

    It's actually our universe. The rest of you will need to pay $699 to live in it.

    - Darl McBride

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  7. Re:A funnel now? by Feanturi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The article made me think of this gem:

    'Alright,' said Ford, 'imagine this. Right. You get this bath. Right. A large round bath. And it's made of ebony.'
    'Where from?' said Arthur, 'Harrods was destroyed by the Vogons.'
    'Doesn't matter.'
    'So you keep saying.'
    'Listen.'
    'Alright.'
    'You get this bath, see? Imagine you've got this bath. And it's ebony. And it's conical.'
    'Conical?' said Arthur, 'What sort of...'
    'Shhh!' said Ford. 'It's conical. So what you do is, you see, you fill it with fine white sand, alright? Or sugar. Fine white sand, and/or sugar. Anything. Doesn't matter. Sugar's fine. And when it's full, you pull the plug out... are you listening?'
    'I'm listening.'
    'You pull the plug out, and it all just twirls away, twirls away you see, out of the plughole.'
    'I see.'
    'You don't see. You don't see at all. I haven't got to the clever bit yet. You want to hear the clever bit?'
    'Tell me the clever bit.'
    Ford thought for a moment, trying to remember what the clever bit was.
    'The clever bit,' he said, 'is this. You film it happening.'
    'Clever,' agreed Arthur.
    'You get a movie camera, and you film it happening.'
    'Clever.'
    'That's not the clever bit. This is the clever bit, I remember now that this is the clever bit. The clever bit is that you then thread the film in the projector... backwards!'
    'Backwards?'
    'Yes. Threading it backwards is definitely the clever bit. So then, you just sit and watch it, and everything just appears to spiral upwards out of the plughole and fill the bath. See?'
    'And that's how the Universe began is it?' said Arthur.
    'No,' said Ford, 'but it's a marvelous way to relax.'

  8. Explaination from an ast101 prof... by prof_bart · · Score: 5, Informative
    So here is the deal:

    What do we mean by the topology of the Universe?

    We sort of mean the 'shape'. It is easy to talk about 2 dimensional surfaces in a three dimensional universe - planes, spheres, funnels, etc. But the Universe has 3 (large) dimensions, not 2, so it is much harder. Normally, we think of the universe as a 3 dimensional equivalent to a plane - that is, in space, straight lines are straight, never curve back on themselves, and go on forever. Another common topologies which arise naturally from gravity theory are 'spherical' - where parallel lines eventually cross, and you can see the back of your head. The group in questions is proposing that the Universe is a 3d analog to the surface of a horn. Others have proposed 3d analogs to the surface of a doughnut....

    How can one possibly determine what this shape is?

    If the Universe is actually curved in some way, then light coming from distant objects will be bent on its way to us, distorting the images. For the global topology of the Universe, one wants to use the largest, most distant thing you can look at. The Universe is expanding and cooling. Light takes time to travel, so if you look far enought away, you can look far enough back in time to when the whole Universe was filled with a hot H-He plasma. This is called the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB). Most recent topology studies have looked at the statistics of the fluctuations of this distant plasma for distortion in the image from what is predicted.

    So, is this true?

    Could be.... but the evidence is not compelling. The anomalies they are looking at are of rather low statistical significance, and the idea that the universe is just 'straight/flat' and boring still fits pretty well. And unfortunately, for the large scale stuff, the data isn't going to get any better. The problem is, we only have one Universe, and COBE and WMAP have measured the large scales as well as can be measured. The small scale distortions have more potential given upcoming experiments like Planck, and the WMAP year2 data.

  9. Re: by IsaacW · · Score: 5, Informative

    actually, (61.74/60) is less than (60/58.27), not the other way round, but you are right to say that this makes 1.74 a smaller percentage of 60 than 1.73 is of 58.27.</nitpick>

    frequency is a continuous property of a wave... whether you choose to select linearly or logaritmically spaced points is up to you. over large scales (i.e. multiple octaves or decades), it is generally more useful to choose logarithmically spaced points, because you want to treat low octaves with the same number of points as high octaves. over small ranges (here only 3.47 Hz or about 5.78% of the nominal 60 Hz), it makes sense to deal with linearly spaced points, because the imbalance between octaves cannot come into play. in this case, if you played the B-natural against 60 Hz and then played the B-flat against 60 Hz, the resulting beat frequency signals would sound essentially the same, as the difference between them would be only 0.01 Hz.