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Making Science and Math Kid Friendly?

mtspim asks: "I work for a non-profit organization that creates interactive math and science curriculum materials for kids and their instructors. Even though we have seen kids learn difficult topic more easily by using a computational approach to learning, most instructors are reluctant to introduce these new ways of thinking into their curriculum. What do Slashdot users think are the best ways to help revitalize math and science programs in our schools, or should we stick to the old conventional methods to learning?"

14 of 620 comments (clear)

  1. *sigh* by Aexia · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's always about making *science* and *math* kid-friendly.

    Has anyone ever tried making the *kids* science and math-friendly?

    1. Re:*sigh* by Hentai · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That isn't the problem, to be honest.

      Math and science *ARE* kid-friendly, and kids ARE science and math friendly. Inherently. You ever seen a six month old exploring her world, seeing what things feel like, taste like, what she can do with her hands? That's the seed of science, right there.

      The problem is, science *TEACHERS* are not kid-friendly. Most of them, no matter how compassionate and pro-children they believe they are, are inherently vicious and sadistic people. They can't recognize this fact, of course, and neither can any of the other adults - but just ask an 8 year old sometime.

      --
      -Hentai [in vita non pacem est]
    2. Re:*sigh* by gnu-generation-one · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The problem is, science *TEACHERS* are not kid-friendly.

      And why

    3. Re:*sigh* by tabdelgawad · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "inherently vicious and sadistic people"

      Well, I wouldn't go *that* far but I agree with your general point that teachers are the key link. In my experience, both as a student and a teacher (college, graduate, some highschool), the single most important determinant of whether a kid pays attention in class is whether the teacher is excited about the material or not.

      Enthusiasm is infectious, especially flowing from teachers, who are figures of authority even if they're not personally liked, to students. You could lecture about the most esoteric or objectly boring topic you can imagine, but if you (as a teacher) find it interesting, and convey this to your students, they'll come along for the ride.

      --
      Imposing Libertarian views on everyone online since 1992.
    4. Re:*sigh* by h4rm0ny · · Score: 5, Insightful


      Math and science *ARE* kid-friendly, and kids ARE science and math friendly. Inherently.

      Science more so than maths alas. I agree that Maths has a lot to recommend it as something fun to learn, but there is a problem inherant in maths that doesn't exist in other subjects such as History, Art or English.

      The problem is that [almost] everything you learn in Maths builds on the last thing you learnt and it's very easy to fall behind in a bad way. This is why many people think they're bad at the subject. They miss a step or two and suddenly nothing they're supposed to be learning makes sense. This is less so for Science and hardly a problem at all in other GCSE-level subjects (GCSEs are the exams you do in the UK at 16).

      I'm helping out a school next week by teaching some supplemental maths. Personally, I like maths but I'm good at it. It's hard to say which came first. They go together.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    5. Re:*sigh* by thetoastman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Of course.

      Somewhere around first or second grade, kids go from learning equals fun to learning equals work.

      About that same time, learning goes from mostly experiential to mostly abstract.

      In junior high and high school you'll hear a common rant - "Why do I have to learn this? I'll never use it in real life!"

      I think that rant sums up the problem. The connection between real life and knowledge is broken very early on in our educational system.

      Most adults are used to thinking in very complex (to students) abstract terms. They can't imagine or remember how to think with a more limited set of abstract tools.

      Shoot, many adults treat children condescendingly because they feel that children cannot understand what is going on. How many times have you heard an adult (usually a parent) say, "That's just the way it is."

      Sometimes that happens because an adult is just too lazy to sit down and explain things. However, a lot of the time is because the adult has NO CLUE about how to explain something in terms that are consistent, correct, and within the grasp of the audience.

      That is of course, if the adult really knows. How many times have you heard an adult say to a child, "I don't know. Are you interested in finding out with me?"

      I think one solution to this problem is to combine experiential learning and abstract learning. I used to do this on my own simply because I was interested in finding out what I could do with my new abstract tools.

      However, helping kids make that connection is the key. In doing that, you actually foster creativity, problem solving skills, and encourage curiosity. Shoot - the teacher might even learn a thing or two along the way.

      This concept shouldn't be restricted to math and science. How about history? If a teacher could relate historical and cultural past to the way groups of people act now, we might understand rather than hate. We might even move toward solving more difficult problems (sociological, psychological).

      Nah - It'll never happen. However, I still remain the idealist.

    6. Re:*sigh* by TWX · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I've had some kid-friendly teachers. They played their parts well, putting up a wall of immaturity that the kids related to. One teacher, Mr. Cosmano, would mess up his experiements on purpose to make them explode or bubble over or otherwise amuse the students enough to hold the class' attention. He'd go over with us what went wrong, and the more knowledgeable kids would pick his experiment apart. It gave the class the opportunity to criticize him, but gave him the the opportunity to dump huge amounts of information in our heads when we were most vulnerable to it.

      I think this type of thing is why "Beakman's World" and "Bill Nye the Science Guy" are popular, because they give the audience something besides an otherwise sterile subject to focus on. It would be good for more teachers to learn such techniques.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  2. Stigmas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The first thing that needs to be done to revitalize math and science learning is to remove the stigmas associated with it. These stigmas were not present to the degree they are today in the 50's and 60's. This is one of the reasons that we were able to pull of some amazing feats (such as the space program in the 60's and the microprocessors in the 70's) during those times. Being labeled a 'geek' and being ostracized by other students does little to make other 'normal' students want to learn science and math. The sad thing is that it starts young (8 years old).

  3. Special programs for the smart ones by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When I was in public schools, I had the benefit of being identified in the high-performer category because I had actually learned a lot from of math from watching PBS programs such as Square One Television, and my mother had taught me to read before my first day of kindergarden unlike any other member of my class.

    As more and more resources are being allocated to "special ed" for those who underperform because such spending is mandatory under various laws, I notice that the programs for the overperformers are being cut back repeatedly because they are strictly optional. I wonder how many future whiz-kids we're losing to the fact that they're getting bored in too-dumb-for-them mainstream classes and therefore goofing off with their extra time instead of being given work that's at their actual mental level rather than their age's level.

  4. "methods of learning" are not the problem by haxeh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People need to realize that most kids don't have a desire to learn these things, and most teachers don't have a desire to teach. Kids go because it's publicly funded babysitting, teachers go to get paid. At some point grades become relevant, and kids learn to do whatever it is they have to do to pass the classes. When it becomes necessary to accomplish some goal, the material will be learned.

    If we did, for some reason, decide to make an point of 'teaching' our kids, by somehow giving them a real reason to learn and the teachers a real reason to teach, it'd be amazing the knowledge that could be imparted. I don't see any reason why a 10 year old cant do calculus, other than they're "not prepared yet."

    Better "curriculum materials" aren't the answer. I don't know what the answer is, but it should somehow involve rewarding kids for learning and rewarding teachers for teaching, which just doesn't happen in our current system.

  5. Root of the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    or maybe just a root...

    Most math and science teachers (US Elementary & High School) do not have degrees in Math or Science.

    The problem is that it is very tough to get talented teachers to remain teaching. Moving into the private sector is much more profitable.

    We need to overhaul the system so that Mathematicians and Scientists want to be teachers... ...not the other way around.

  6. Re:Teach the teachers how to teach... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I come from a country where the teachers are just as bad, probably worse. The difference is, in that country Engineers, Doctors and Mathematicians are regarded as the best members of society whereas businessmen, athletes and entertainers are just average people. That is motivation enough to make kids learn math and science well. Of course, good teachers and good motivation would be best, but cultural motivation is the biggest factor.

  7. Mathematics is a Language by Llywelyn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Treat it as such.

    Too often I see teacher after teacher who treats math with disdain and as something you can just memorize a few techniques and have down cold.

    These are the kids I see shake with fear when they have to synthesize to answer a problem... in an Advanced Engineering Mathematics course in college.

    Teach it as if it were a language--through immersion; by teaching fundamental concepts and then building on those (rather than our current backwards system); and teach the rules before you teach the exceptions, special cases, and other things of that nature (e.g., how did you learn how to take the determinate of a matrix?). Teach application--teaching them about matrices is pretty much worthless unless you talk to them about systems of linear equations. Force them to apply this language in situations outside of the ones that you have taught.

    Deemphasize memorization and emphasize understanding--Don't make them memorize trigonometric rules, teach them Euler's Equation and about imaginary numbers.

    Respect the students ability to learn mathematics. E. B. White said the following: "No one can write decently who is distrustful of the reader's intelligence, or whose attitude is patronizing." This is a fundamentally true statement that applies to teaching--if the teachers hate the subject and don't know it all that well themselves, then they aren't going to trust the students ability to learn it.

    --
    Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
  8. Re:fun in school by lvdrproject · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Speaking as a 'kid', i'd have to say that that doesn't work; at least, it wouldn't at my school. Kids are so stupid today, it's outrageous. Examples: (1) The people who are constantly bitching about how poor the schools are and how they can't afford good books and computers are the same people who think it's hilarious to smash garbage cans and write on walls and steal school property. (2) A teacher will assign work and give the students class time to complete it. Instead of doing work, the students will talk, incessently. The teacher will say, hey, if you don't stop talking, i'll assign more home work. The students don't even pause. The teacher assigns more home work. 'Awwwwww. BOOOO. What the fuck!! This sucks!!!'

    The problem is, kids today think the world owes them something. Teachers aren't people who are trying to educate them and motivate them and prepare them for the real world; they're people who are trying to hold them back and 'cramp their style'. When a student is told that doing something is wrong, and then the student gets punished for doing it, it's never a matter of 'oh, shoot, i did something wrong and i got caught doing it' -- it's always 'ugh, this fucking sucks, this is bull shit, i don't have to put up with this'.

    I hate to sound like a fascist or something, but rewards don't work with kids today. They're too 'punk' for rewards. What schools need is discipline. I don't mean dress codes and other 'pre-emptive' kinds of discipline that everybody seems to like -- those just hurt the people who aren't jerks. I mean real-world, reactionary discipline. When you do something wrong in the real world, you're generally get punished by being fired or fined or jailed. School should be the same way. When you call a teacher a 'fucking retard', you shouldn't just get an unexcused absence for that period. You should get a detention, and if you don't serve that detention, you should get suspended. If you destroy school property, you should be fully expected to pay for every last dime of it. Et cetera. :/