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IT Workers Not Eligible for Overtime in New Rules
bjarvis354 writes "The San Diego Union Tribune is reporting that the Department of Labor Secretary Elaine Chao unveiled new rules that seem to specifically target IT workers and other white collar workers for exemption from overtime pay. The Oneonta Daily Star claims that 'According to new exemption tests, the employee isn't guaranteed overtime pay if primary duties involve office or non-manual work,' and 'Computer employees are not guaranteed overtime pay if they make $455 a week, or if their hourly rate is $27.63. Affected employees include computer systems analysts, programmers, software engineers or anyone with a similar title.'"
If this figure isn't the take home pay amount, it looks like it would be a good idea (perhaps even a necessity) to get a second job. Ouch. Good luck to all you IT people.
C:\>
You mean we were supposed to be getting overtime before? I don't ever remember getting paid overtime in the last ten years.
Workers may still get overtime pay if they earn between $23,660 and $100,000 and work more than 40 hours per week.
I don't want to hear any complaints if your making over 100k a year. If your making less thank 23,660 a year I'm confused too.
The article says: "Chao said about 107,000 white-collar workers earning $100,000 or more a year could lose their eligibility."
People in that salary bracket are being paid hourly? I had always assumed that anywhere in the 50+ per year range is a salaried position, and overtime isn't an issue anyway, because you don't keep a time clock.
Craig Steffen
http://www.craigsteffen.net
Which explicitly states that IT workers making less than $83,000 anually must be paid overtime?
This was signed into (California) law in 2000, I believe.
SB 88
From the bill:
This bill, except as specified, would exempt a professional employee in the computer software field from this overtime compensation requirement if the employee is primarily engaged in work that is intellectual or creative, the employee's hourly rate of pay is not less than $41.00, and the employee meets other requirements.
$455 a week is $23,660 yearly.
$27.63 an hour is $57,470 yearly, which is already close to Federal overtime exemption (if not hitting it exactly, I don't recall the current figure).
So, why the $34,000 discrepancy?
This is true. I received overtime until last year when I got an "offer" to go salary. I cant complain, they took my previous years base pay + all the over time I made and added an additional $15k/year and asked if I would go salary for that. Thinking "Hell yes!", I said "Hmmm... sounds reasonable -- let me talk it over with my family". Took the offer, of course.
With a few exectpions, I can walk out on my job at the drop of a hat and pick up where I left off in the evening. Of course, there's the off 2am page/alert that has me up and at work -- or once I had to walk out of an amusement park and return to work -- but it's a fair trade, imho (and MINE is all that matters to me).
-jhon
Well, I work for a tech company, and they expect me to work sixty hours a week too... the only difference is that I don't. I work the forty. At 5pm, I get up, pack my computer, and leave.
It's that simple. I'm not getting paid overtime, so I'm not doing overtime. Granted, I'm "on call" once every other week, so I get woken up sometimes, but frankly, I just don't understand why people think they have to do that extra 20 hours. Do they give you more money? Do they come over and help clean your apartment? No. So why do it for them?
They are providing you a job, and as long as you do that job, then "expectations" are just that.
libertarianswag.com
I've worked for 17 years in the IT field, and all but three of those years have been as a "salaried" employee.
If I am "salaried", why do I have to fill out a timesheet? Why, when I only have 38 hours on my timesheet, do I get paid for 38 hours? Conversely, when I have 68 hour, I only get paid for 40?
I've brought this up as "illegal" on a couple occasions, and even cited the state's labour laws, only to have it thrown back at me.
THIS is where we need to make some reforms too...
Reminds me of the rumored Microsoft tactic of hiring two people for one job, with the knowledge that one of them would be fired at the end of the first year. The result is that the two would end up working many hours of unpaid overtime that management doesn't even have to ask for in order to get ahead of their rival.
I'm not quite sure that's the kind of environment where I'd want to struggle to keep the job...
Capitalism is a positive sum game. While I certainly disagree with that statement, in this case it makes sense. When Unions fight for extra rights, then employers who are unecessarily hoarding all that cash are forced to give some of it away. This helps out everyone in the economy (except for a very small, very wealthy group). Unions are positive sum. When a Union struggles and wins extra rights, all workers benefit. The idea that somehow by forcing employers to take care of their employees and pay them a living wage will destory the market is ridiculous. We all benefit when society consists of people that are paid well, healthy, and happy. Perhaps you would like to go back to the early 20th century when children were worked 14+ hour days, and people were treated like machines (oh, wait, that second one hasn't changed much). If it weren't for Unions, chances are that you would be working a miserable, low wage job, and the country would be entirely in the pockets of the rich by now. You have quite a bit to be grateful for, it's too bad that you don't realize it.
Just to throw my personal perspective into the mix. I am also a salaried employee and currently, I *do* get overtime. I have a union contract that defines many conditions where I am paid OT as a supervisor. I work past those limits, I get an extra 1/6th of my salary (our work week is defined as a 6 day week).
The men and women who I supervise are hourly get ~$30/hour and get OT as well.
In closing: IMHO Unions are good.
I'm not exactly sure where all of the anti-union bias comes from. Screenwriters and actors have a union, and they are also well-paid (most of the time) and creative people.
I also think that the argument that we can negotiate our own contracts is equally naive. Sure, there are some that can, but I wouldn't say that social skills and negotiation are well-known geek skills outside of MMRPGs.
The only disadvantage of unions, as was eluded to earlier was the whole factor of diverse employment. However, that doesn't bar places like MS, Apple, Sun, Adobe, IBM, etc., etc., from joining unions. This doesn't mean people sit on their buts while unions continually strike, but it does mean you have someone negotiating your benefits and work week for you, collectively, as well as a network of peers.
Sounds like a variation on the Prisoners' Dilemma.
I wonder if the alleged Microsoft managers actually understood the strategy.
Why don't we just tell the government to get their damn hands out of it in the first place?
I have a salaried job now that doesn't get me overtime. I have had hourly contract jobs in the past that don't give overtime, but pay for the actual hours worked.
Shifting from contract jobs to a salaried position meant that I had a significant paycut and unpaid overtime (like everyone else in the field), but it offered stability.
If you want to be compensated for working more than 40 hours, do it at a different job or get it into your contract.
Ten (unordered) Rules for Success:
1. Know your shit. If you're a sysadmin who can't make an Ethernet cable or a programmer who can't build a workstation, you deserve to be at the mercy of others.
2. Know others' shit. You just gonna sit there while the PFY brings down the intranet?
3. Be your word. Every discrepancy between what you say and what you do will be used against you. This does not mean that your word must be intelligible to anyone but you. Make credible threats and follow through.
4. Incompetents must fear you, whether they work above you, with you, or below you.
5. Everyone is your adversary until proven otherwise. This does not mean you should be on the offensive, but you can't let your guard down. Trust no one with your reputation.
6. Take no shit, give shit only when your case is strong. It's hard to implement (4) without giving shit, but your aim had better be true. Sometimes it's better to bide your time.
7. Make no friends in haste. Lunch is ok but never, never go drinking with an incompetent. It just makes it harder to fire them later (*sob* I thought we were friends!).
8. Be humble. The more bad-ass you say you are, the more the probability of us having a drink approaches zero.
9. Carry your own insurance and retirement, even if you are on salary. It's so easy to walk out the door when your benefits are secure, and they know it. Don't forget to negotiate for extra compensation!
10. Punctuality. Some deserve it, some don't. Learn the difference.
- if i don't like an employer's terms (such as benefits, overtime pay, etc.), i won't work for that employer... - and if that employer does a 'change up' on original terms of employment, then i am free to seek employment elsewhere... - i'd only worry if a law were enacted stating that i must remain employed with a certain employer - but i think we've come a few years down the road from that mentality, haven't we?
How is this any different from the overtime laws that Bush managed to push through? Or is this the same law set just reworded? The actual new laws do a lot more than just hurt IT workers. Although some of this has apparently been ammended, the original proposal exempted anyone with a college degree, nurses, police, etc. This is a bad law.
Do you really need reason for beer? Wingman Brewers
I just came off a contract as a software engineer at a subsidiary of a Fortune 500 insurance company. The management, apparently, does not believe your statements about reduced productivity when you work too many hours in a week. All the full time (hence salaried) engineers were working well over 80 hour weeks. They would keep track of the number of hours these salaried employees worked. One of my co-workers put in over 90 hours one week and was not even in the top 10 for number of hours worked. This went on for months. If a union is required to stop this insanity, I say unionize. Those poor schlubs were beat and ill-tempered almost all the time and I can tell you they made a lot more mistakes than they should have.
The solution to this problem is simple. Tell your prospective employer you are willing to work forty hours a week, but you're willing to negotiate more hours for higher pay. Then, when they say they expect you to work "till the job is done," tell them no.
I've found it works better expressed in terms they can relate to, e.g., "I'm just so unproductive on a long work week I end up getting less done," or "I make so many mistakes the last twenty hours I spend the next forty cleaning them up," though what's really true is "my family and my life are more important than the emergency you're too cheap to staff."
My favorite line is, "a professional works till the job is done." This is actually true, but incomplete. It should end with "and sends you a bill for every minute it took." Check with your lawyer and see if you can get a flat rate for an open-ended job.
Of course, it helps if you're good enough that even your manager can see that you're a bargain....
This is a great comment MOD this guy up! I have worked for the State of Alabama Department of Revenue Sales and Use Tax Division in the past. This will save money on collection and reward people for doing good. My Only objection to what is said here is that the Flat tax is actually worse than the current Income Tax. A National Sales Tax and you could kiss the IRS goodbye. Just don't associate the two.
Definitionally a Flat tax is the end of small business. It wipes out the deductions against Income for individuals and does not allow you to count them against your earnings as a whole. At the same time a "Flat Tax" would leave the same deductions in place for the Big Co's.
The Sales Tax taxes everybody the same. The most profound thing it does, is that it ends the tax advantages now extended to foreign (Not USA) businesses and individuals causing all players here to pay equally. It also frees US Exports from being mostly US INCOME Tax allowing us to compete in the world market. Want to watch the world scream for protection from the Americans... ? Pass the National Sales Tax and repeal any income taxes.
Never Politically Correct ~ I prefer the facts If you don't like what I say, get a life, or comment yourself.