Universal 3D File Format In The Works

telstar writes "The Register is reporting that more than 30 companies are working together to define a new file format intended to serve as a universal 3D file format. The new file format will be named the 'Universal 3D Format', or U3D. According to the article, they hope to make the new format as standard as MP3 has become for audio, and JPEG has become for 2D images. Interesting that they would choose two lossy media formats as models for comparison."

Comments

There's a page for this on the ECMA site...

[tcopeland]

...right here.

There's also a separate 3DIF site.

JPEG patent is bullshit

[tepples]

You have a point with MP3, but the author of BurnAllGIFs.org seems to think the JPEG patent wouldn't stand up in a court of law.

Comparison to formats...

[ItMustBeEsoteric]

Most likely has to do with the fact that .mp3 and .jpeg are ubiquitous more so than anything. If they said, for example, .FLAC, they would have confuzlled the hell out of a good chunk of people.

Re:Standards

[breon.halling]

According to this, it was Grace Hopper.

Re:What about VRML

[Urban Garlic]

VRML, as I understand it, is not quite dead yet. There's still an active W3G working group working on "x3d", which is the successor to VRML, and more than a few scientific visualization packages can export to, and read, VRML, including SGI's OpenInventor.

What's bad about VRML was that the VRML '97 spec was too damn complicated (IMHO), and a few years later, the really good free browser (CosmoPlayer) got sold off by SGI, and after changing hands several times, apparently disappeared from the face of the Earth. There are other browsers, but they don't plug in to browsers as easily.

The other problem I heard people complain about (but was not a problem for me) was the "JavaScript" problem -- people on comp.lang.vrml didn't like that their web VRML was human-readable and stealable. CNN used to have the occasional VRML model on their site for interesting things, but switched a while ago to something called Cult3D, which appears to be binary, and to have pricey development tools -- I don't know if the format is actually proprietary, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Of course, the *real* reason it died was because I learned it...

Why VRML sucked

[sjbe]

VRML had a bunch of problems.

• VRML files are huge. VRML was designed to be human readable (a laudable goal) but this meant that a VRML of any complexity made an enormous file. I used to use VRML files out of ProEngineer in a 3D simulation package and the smallest files were usually about 20 megabytes and it went up to 200 at times.
  
• VRML lacked the precision to be useful as a CAD quality 3D data interchange format. Not that any of the alternatives are great (IGES) but VRML didn't solve the very real problem of interchange between incompatible 3D modeling systems.
  
• VRML was designed (partly) with the idea of moving the web to 3D, but this isn't very useful for real world interfaces. Even where 3D interfaces might be useful (rare) there isn't the infrastructure (bandwidth, control systems, etc) to make it useful
  
• Unrealistic (read poor) image quality. You will never see a VRML file that looks anything close to as good as a modern 3D shooter.
  

Basically VRML wasn't designed to scratch a real itch, just a theoretical one. It was just a neat idea that was designed by committee, with predictable results.

JPEG is not a lossy format

[alphakappa]

JPEG is not *necessarily* lossy. The JPEG specification allows for both lossy and lossless compression.

In common parlance, however, JPEG refers to the *JPEG baseline algorithm* which is lossy (but allows you to define the amount of loss). Note that even though you can create images that are visually lossless, baseline JPEG can never produce truly (mathematically) lossless compression. (no, not even if you set quality=100)

If you want lossless JPEG compression, there's the standard called *lossless JPEG* (LJPEG) which doesn't provide a high degree of compression though. There's also *JPEG-LS* which is another JPEG standard which provides for lossless compression.

If that's not enough JPEG for you, there's the new standard called *JPEG 2000* which allows a host of features such as the ability to choose between lossy and lossless compression, progressive transmission etc.

So calling JPEG lossy is true only if you are referring to baseline JPEG.

Overambitious?

[Dr. Mu]

The goals of this project are either overambitious or overstated. Each of the 3D file formats in current use has its plusses and minuses, depending on what it's used for. For example, VRML works fine for dynamic 3D visualation, but I wouldn't want to fabricate anything from it. Likewise, STL is optimized for stereolithography, but IGES is de regeur for final manufacturing. A single, universal format would have to include a lot more data than any one single application could ever need.

Perhaps the best approach is a pseudo file format with plug in codecs, like Microsoft uses for its video playback.

.u3d already in use!

[buhatkj]

the .u3d file extension is already used for a proprietary format for a neat little app called uinwrap3d, which a lot of modders use to make skins for custom game models. prolly no big deal but i just thought that was mildly relavent
maybe not...